lifeblood: listlogs: 1997-05b

=========================================================================
date: wed, 7 may 1997 21:15:58 -0400
reply-to: samantha <swarnock@scott.skidmore.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: samantha <swarnock@scott.skidmore.edu>
subject: signing off
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i'm signing off for a little while. hopefully i'll be back in a couple
weeks. it's been swell while it lasted. thanks everyone. be good and take
care!

-----------()-----------
samantha warnock
skidmore college
saratoga springs, ny
swarnock@skidmore.edu
-----------()-----------

hey everyone!

i decided than i would write all the companies who advertised during the
ellen coming-out episode and thank them for their support of her show and
gay people, and blah blah blah, all that stuff. i don't think i actually
support these companies or buy their products (cause they probably do bad
stuff that my liberal bleeding heart wouldn't approve of) but, i still
think they deserve to be recognized and if they get positive feedback, it
might keep them from listeing to the anti-gay people who are screaming
and yelling at them.

soooo, in case any of you wants to do something similar or whatever, here
are the sponsers:

volkswagen (which, by the way, was a pretty cool covertly gay commercial)
paramount
new line cinema
one-a-day vitamins
hbo
burlington coat factory
warner bros.
listerine
neosporin
gramercy
universal
tri-star
fem-stat (hah-weren't they smart, they knew how many lesbians would be
watching)
gap
krups
colombia
trident
sudafed
20th century fox
slim-fast
calvin klein
fruitopia (actually, they didn't advertise, but she did drink one during
the show)

umm, so there ya go. sorry it took me a week to post this. i don't have
any addresses, and i'm web-disabled, so if anybody has them, or has spare
time and wants to find them, please send them to me. i'll be on a
mission to find their addy's later this week, and would love help (and if
enough people want them, i'll post the addy's to the list when i've got a
complete list)

alright. enough of my political-ness. back to your regularly scheduled
whatever the hell this list is.

love!
sundara

"aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh"
-ani d.

hi all,

    went to the u2 concert last night, well, heard u2 last night!  around
9:30 p.m. shila and i stepped outside here in eugene only to hear u2, clear
as a bell from their concert ten minutes away!  wow, it was so loud (they had
like, 159 speakers).  so, we grabbed the dogs and drove to the cheap seats
across from autzen stadium. :) (we're not big fans, but do enjoy their older
stuff).  we heard about 10 songs from the set.  mostly old, yeah!  it proved
to be a great spur o' the moment date.  we were among many others who
listened from outside the stadium.
     the funny part came when i was boasting, feeling so enlightened "jeez,
the sound out here is great.  its probably better than it is inside, i'd much
rather be out here.  gosh i love this, i could sit out here anytime, who
needs to pay 50.00 be in there...blah blah"
     shila pipes up with "now you know,  you would not be so darned happy if
that was amy and emily singin' in there, and you were out here sittin' in the
dirt!"

she's right. so very, very right. :)
and ohhh, would i pay $$$!

then she remenisced (again) about when ig opened for the dead at autzen in
'93, and i whined (again) about the things that kept me from being at that
show :( we had fun!

see ya later,
catherine

"show me the money?" joe, and ellen's therapist (oprah) in the puppy
episode.

i don't know if this was posted already, because i
am currently off the list, but my mom (wonderful
person!) just let me know that the lilith fair will
be in milwaukee at the outdoor marcus amphitheater
on aug. 19 (a tues.) at 3 p.m.  it's starring shawn
colvin, sarah mclachlan, ig, and jewel, among
many others.  tix go on sale on sat. may 10 at
noon (this weekend!).  i'm getting some.  anyone
going to be there, too?  anyone seriously want
me to pick you up some tix too?  i wouldn't mind
sitting with fellow list members.  tix are $38.50,
28.50, 23.50, and 19.50 (gen. admin.), which does
not include service charges.  there's a snipet in
the 5/3 milwaukee journal/sentinel newspaper about
the concert, and ig has the first and biggest pic along-
side the article.  whoooo-hoooooo!

lisa
lschreihart@juno.com

p.s. let me know by fri. evening. i'm driving in to
milwaukee from cedar rapids (milw. is my hometown)
on the 19th and going back home that same night.

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=========================================================================
date: wed, 7 may 1997 23:12:38 -0500
reply-to: justin shumaker <shuey@tcac.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: justin shumaker <shuey@tcac.com>
subject: sots geography
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hey...have y'all noticed that this is emily and amy's geography album?
lesse, we have...

gainsville town
boston
south africa
the west coast
leeds
texas
tennessee
argentinia
europe
down south where the maya reign
darwin's theory (alaska)
down in the 48
alaska again
victoria
spokane
cascade range
olympia
capitol lake
illinois (benjamin's words)
new orleans
a gold rush town (california?)

i count 21 geographical references. that's above average, as far as i can
tell.

just one in a long list of fun rambling,
justin

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=========================================================================
date: wed, 7 may 1997 21:29:42 -0700
reply-to: tom jobes <tomcat@netcom.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: tom jobes <tomcat@netcom.com>
subject: go, give that girl some gum
in-reply-to: <97may7.234812-0400_edt.32837-61+479@brimstone.netspace.org> from
 "automatic digest processor" at may 7, 97 11:47:52 pm
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chickensoprano <creechal@aslan.emu.edu> wrote:
>
> go, give that girl some gum
> (a parody by anna creech and susan marine)

wooo hooo! i love it! rotflmao

> i know a lot of you are probably going to be pissed that we wrote a
> parody of such an emotional song. go ahead, flame me, i've got burn
> marks that go deep already, so what's more? ;)

is it me, or is anyone else tired of the fact that so many people feel
that they need to defend themselves whenever they say something that's
not completely boring? at least you didn't say "donning my asbestos
suit...", which would've made my teeth hurt. i almost think that this
sort of pre-emptive strike encourages rather than discourages "flames",
even if it's a plaintive "pleeeze don't flame meeeeee".

i've been of this list for several months now, and except for the poul
espisode, i haven't seen a single flame worth the name.  not even in
the spelling-and-punctuation wars.  just some snippy stuff that should
have been ignored.  if you want to see a real flame war, check out the
usenet group soc.bi any day of the week.  there'll be several, complete
with constant ad-hominem attacks.  funny, i don't hang out there nearly
as often as i used to...

am i missing something? are people getting real flames in private
e-mail? i've gotten one sorta pissy message once, but nothing to write
home about.

people, say what you want to say, and say it proud!

wow, i had no idea i was going to go off on that whole thing when i
started this post. i meant to just congratulate chickensoprano on
a hilarious little ditty. sigh.

tom
---
tomcat ____    we should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom
       \ _/__  that is in it - and stop there;  lest we be like the cat that
        \\  /  sits down on a hot stove-lid.  she will never sit down on a hot
          \/   stove-lid again---and that is well;  but also she will never sit
               down on a cold one anymore.    -- mark twain

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=========================================================================
date: thu, 8 may 1997 00:32:14 -0400
reply-to: cec8@cornell.edu
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: colleen caffrey <cec8@cornell.edu>
subject: re: sots geography
x-to: justin shumaker <shuey@tcac.com>
in-reply-to: <v03102800af9701491664@[207.50.45.9]>
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on wed, 7 may 1997, justin shumaker wrote:

> hey...have y'all noticed that this is emily and amy's geography album?
> lesse, we have...
(snip)
> i count 21 geographical references. that's above average, as far as i can
> tell.
>
> just one in a long list of fun rambling,
> justin

i think that's precisely why the earlier tentative title was "map."

-colleen

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=========================================================================
date: thu, 8 may 1997 00:34:01 -0400
reply-to: cec8@cornell.edu
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: colleen caffrey <cec8@cornell.edu>
subject: re: scooter boys and amy's singing
x-to: molly jane b murphy <julj03a@prodigy.com>
in-reply-to: <199705072311.tab03662@mime4.prodigy.com>
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on wed, 7 may 1997, molly jane b murphy wrote:

> the high notes are sung by michelle malone..not amy or em
> gwen...

mm can be clearly be heard on backups in this song. however, the 'yeah's ar
most definitely amy. it sounds just like it did in concert when amy sang them.
and besides, there's no way, those yeahs are coming from michelle.

-colleen

i have a few brief (hopefully, but ya never know once i get started!)
comments.  there are two main things. one is just the point of factory
farming.  yes, they die in the wild. and i agree with you. that is evolution
and nature.  what humans do is institutionalize animals. and it is untrue
that they live a decent life.

foie gras....do you know how this is made?  geese are force feed thru a
feeder 3x/daily for 28 days.many times, their stomachs burst. this is
considered a delicacy food.   pigs are crammed into pens so small that they
start chewing on each other's asses and tails.  so, they have their tails
chopped off at birth instead.   for veal, baby calves are chained in cages
jsut big enough to hold them. for the duration of their lives, they are
unable to move around. this is to produce the "tenderness" of the meat.
chickens are pumped with steroids.  male cattle are castrated to make them
more docile.  female cows are kept pregnant (insemination) throughout their
lives in order to continuously produce milk. their young are taken away
immmediately. they look content because they are pumped with tranqulizers. in
egg factories male chicks are weeded out. they are thrown into plastic bags
and many are crushed while possibly still living.

next is the waste issue.  beef cattle return only 1lb of meat for every 16
lbs. of soybeans and grains they're fed.  it takes 2,500 gallons of water to
produce 1 lb of meat, and only 25 to produce a pound of wheat.  the world's
cattle alone (not including pigs and chix, etc) consume the claoric
equivalent to feed 8.7 billion people (2x the human population).  hundreds of
millions of grain go to animals while only 5 million tons could adequately
feed 15 mill. children, the approx. # who starve to death each year.  the
planet's petroleum supply would be depleated in 13 ys. if all countries
manufactured and maintained the same meat-centered diet as america.  200 ys.
ago cropland topsoil averaged 21 inches and now only 6 inches remian.  every
yr. in the us, an area the size of ct is lost to topsoil erosion (85% of
which is associated with livestock production).  mcdonalds alone is
responsible for the depletion of thousands and thousands of acres of
rainforest (which cannot grow back).  the forests are cleared for cattle
grazing.

i hope this has been at the very least, an education!  we can get all of the
vitamnins, minerals and protiens necessary w/o eating meat.  only very rich
and industrailized countries have such huge meat-centered diets.  in this
way, we are greedy and selfish.

most of this info was taken from "101 reasons why i'm a vegetarian" by pamela
teisler. if anyone wants to buy a copy, email me for the address.

marci

hey kind friends

just wanted to share my excitement with y'all. i just checked
michelle malone's hidden water website and am now increibly psyched
having just learned that she'll be at ny pride on june 22 and at the fez
on the 23rd!! woohoo! her show at fez in march rocked my world and now
i get to go again!!!!

-colleen

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=========================================================================
date: thu, 8 may 1997 00:59:46 -0400
reply-to: joanie <edwina@jax-inter.net>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: joanie <edwina@jax-inter.net>
subject: re: go, give that girl some gum (nigc)
x-to: tom jobes <tomcat@netcom.com>
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tom wrote:

>am i missing something? are people getting real flames in private
>e-mail? i've gotten one sorta pissy message once, but nothing to write
>home about.
>

this is my personal experience with private flames:

sometimes people "flame" you with constructive criticism, and it's not bad.
if it's constructive criticism, it's constructive criticism, so there's no
bother in that. sometimes people misquote you, but if you call them on it,
they'll retract or apologize. that's not bad either. then there are some who
feel it necessary to comment (negatively) on everything you post to the list
(all of this is in private email mind you). those people can be annoying but
they're easier to ignore. then there are the extremists. those are people
who violently disagree with you. those are the ones who hurl profanity at
you to no end, as if it would change your mind about something. sometimes
they can be really bad. i had one girl (who is no longer on the list...thank
god!!) tell me that if she ever found out where i lived, she would hunt me
down and torture me. of course, i didn't take her literally. i even laughed;
but to get that type of email is a bit disturbing.

people disagree about everything, but there's no need to be militant about
it. profanity, personal attacks, and especially threats are not necessary.
i'm not talking about this list exclusively, but i have talked to a few
listees who get as much flamage as i do. i don't even post that much! i'm
sure i'll get a flame for this ;-) sometimes it is nescessary to say "please
don't flame me" when posting, because you have to be safe. people only need
one reason...

i'm not complaining so don't take it as that. i've gotten so used to being
flamed that i get a laugh out of it. i never take it personally because no
one here knows me. well, a couple of you do ;) i've gotten so many flames,
it doesn't even burn anymore. it tickles :) so for those of you who haven't
been flamed, don't take it too seriously when you do. those of you who have
been flamed, don't even worry about it.

please don't flame me for this.

;)

jendy
===========================================================================
"seems easier to push than to let go and trust."
-emily saliers

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=========================================================================
date: wed, 7 may 1997 22:15:53 -0600
reply-to: sb2@axe.humboldt.edu
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: seona <sb2@axe.humboldt.edu>
organization: humboldt state university
subject: re: scooter boys and amy's singing
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colleen caffrey wrote:
>
> on wed, 7 may 1997, molly jane b murphy wrote:
>
> > the high notes are sung by michelle malone..not amy or em
> > gwen...
>
> mm can be clearly be heard on backups in this song.  however, the 'yeah's ar
> most definitely amy.  it sounds just like it did in concert when amy sang them.
> and besides, there's no way, those yeahs are coming from michelle.
>
>             -colleen
>

so sorry if this has been said...but when at their eugene concert, just
about one month ago, i don't think michelle malone was there with them
when they sang this song, and i clearly remember amy's body and head
position when she was singing the high parts. i was impressed! she had
her head cocked to one side (i think to her left which ever is closer to
the neck of the guitar) and a bit strained forward, and her opposite
(right) shoulder was high up to her ear, her eyes closed, and she
clearly let out the "yeah,...yeah,...yeah!" it was great!

seona
sb2@axe.humboldt.edu

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 01:15:19 -0400
reply-to: audrey beth stein <abstein@force.stwing.upenn.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: audrey beth stein <abstein@force.stwing.upenn.edu>
subject: exxon marijuana (igc)
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the may issue of stomp and stammer--the one with the interview with amy
where she talks about boots and collectibles and exxon marijuana among
other things--is up, http://www.monsterbit.com/stammer.

later y'all,
audrey

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 01:43:33 -0400
reply-to: andi <ablipman@sas.upenn.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: andi <ablipman@sas.upenn.edu>
subject: stomp and stammer article
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the stomp and stammer article is now at
http://monsterbit.com/stammer/may/story2.html

i cut & pasted it from there, but the margins were all messed, up, so i
tried to fix them. it took a really long time, but i think it will come
out okay now.

andi

may, 1997

one girl, twenty questions

jeff clark keeps 'em coming for amy ray

atlanta's love for native daughters indigo girls is large and indisputable,
and frankly, it's easy to see why. because, whether or not you appreciate
their songs, whether or not you agree with their political/social
positions, whether or not you're straight, gay, or whatever, it's very hard
to not like them. as musicians. as citizens. as people. they're as earnest
as their songs, as easygoing as a lazy day, as friendly as good neighbors.
thus, after watching them grow up in small clubs like the trackside tavern
and little five points
pub in the mid-'80s, their success - including gold records, worldwide
tours, a grammy award and four other nominations - is almost a celebration
in itself: hey! the good guys won!

rarely ones to slow down to enjoy the pleasures of such success, amy ray
and emily saliers did in fact take a break from the road and recording
studio last year to collect themselves and get their heads together. still,
amongst the traveling, soul-searching, and laying low, they managed to stay
involved in music and politics, the two worlds that merge so often in their
acoustic-based songs. first, the late '95 release of the double disc live
album 1200 curfews kept fans satiated. closer to the heart, their concern
for the rights of
indigenous americans (injuns, to the less sensitive) prompted the all-star
benefit disc honor, on ray's daemon records, which also released fine
albums by the rock*a*teens, danielle howle, and other local and regional
talent. and hey, from the looks of their new promo shots, it seems that
emily finally got a flattering haircut!

all jocularity aside, she obviously learned how to play banjo, 'cause that
stringed instrument figures prominently in the sound of "shame on you" and
"get out the map," the first two songs from shaming of the sun, the brand
new indigo girls album released april 29. at times turbulent and
reassuring, restless and emotional, the eleven songs stray very little from
what has become the duo's signature sound, yet - augmented by such diverse
backing musicians as steve earle, ulali, lisa germano, smoke, and others -
shaming of the sun is at the same time a more adventurous, worldly affair.

with the new album, it's also 'back on the bus, y'all' time again, and the
girls are gearing up for another non-stop touring year, including three big
homecoming shows later this month at chastain park. the road - or fort
worth, texas, to be exact - is where i tracked down amy ray, wound up from
a pre-show run, and ready to rip on a wide variety of subjects, as you will
see as you follow the zig-zagging path of our conversation - get out the
map, indeed! first topic of discussion: her reaction to finding bootlegs of
some early, early indigo girls recordings in an independent atlanta record
store which has been a big
supporter of the duo over the years:

amy ray: "there is some stuff going on right now that i have a problem
with. i'm not gonna name any stores, but when people take recordings that
have already been done, and they bootleg them, and they reissue them, and
make money off them, that pisses me off. like, i saw a bootleg of our ep!
they don't own the license for that! epic owns the license for that, and
they own it for a reason, because we wanted them to release it as b-sides,
and then maybe later on down the road as part of a box set. it's like, if i
wanted the thing released, we would release it! you don't take something
and steal it from somebody like
that, and make a lot of money off it. and it's wrong. it's wrong, period.
there's no question to me about it."

stomp and stammer: on the other hand, as a fan of other musicians, i'm sure you
understand that desire to 'have everything.'

"people bootleg our shows all the time. i have no problem with that. we
expect it to happen, and it's not an issue for me... [but] you know, i've
seen some bootlegs recently in atlanta that are reissues of tapes i made
when i was in high school and college, of me and emily, that i made and
gave to people as gifts. and i consider those my property. i consider them
to be things that i created myself, that are not for people to sell. and
when i see someone doing that, a store, you know, i'll withdraw my support
for them. because
it's wrong. especially if they don't ask me."

what helped inspire "shame on you," the new single?

"i saw this really cool movie called displaced in the new south [by atlanta
filmmaker david zeiger], and there was a whole section of it about
gainesville, and the poultry industry there and then later on down the road
i had heard they were starting to crack down on illegal immigrants up
there, working at these factories. but they hassled everyone, and to me,
it's like, god, how hypocritical can you get? you're running this chicken
[company], you're raking in the millions, you're hiring people for low
wages, they have terrible work conditions and the city's making money
off it, and at the same time the city's going, 'what are all these illegal
immigrants doing here?' what do you think they're doing?! they're
working, because somebody else doesn't want the job. all these people
complain that all these jobs are being taken away and stuff like that, well,
those people are the people that are willing to do it. i don't know enough
about it to spout off about it, but that's what i see from the outside."

what do you think should be done about illegal immigrants?

"oh, god, i don't know. they shouldn't have to be illegal they won't let
people in to [be citizens]. it's not like everybody can do that. i think
you have to have certain access to the infrastructure, and the resources,
and i don't know what the policies are on how many people can apply, you
know, to become citizens. i don't think it's as easy as just doing it,
though i know [the question] is a hard one, because they go, well, if all
these people come
here, we can't possibly handle it all the more i read, the more i realize i
don't know anything. so, i'm not really qualified to talk about it, except
from my perspective, [which is] it's hypocritical to be speaking about
illegal immigrants when we're immigrants ourselves. and who drew the line,
and said, 'okay, now, you're illegal and you're not'? what if somebody had
done that to us? it's bullshit."

can you tell me about your trip to mexico in february?

"me and emily took a delegation of about 25 people down as a show of moral
support for the zapatistas the zapatistas are mayan indians who are
fighting for rights to stay on their land, and to make the decisions about
how their land is used themselves, and have access to the infrastructure
for health care and education, and basically they want the mexican people
to change the government from one that's completely corrupt to one where
people really have a voice. and they want to be part of it. and our
military is sending their military aid.
and a lot of that money is being diverted to the mexican military's effort
against the mayan indians. the tanks drive through every day, the roads
were built so the tanks can go into these villages, woman are raped, people
can't walk from one village to the other without being harassed. the
military recruits women from the village to be prostitutes for the army.
and it's just sick, and it's what we call low-intensity war. i've been down
there twice, now, and i've seen it, and i'm tellin' you, we shouldn't be
giving that money to them by not saying anything, and by not speaking out
about human rights down there, we are
completely adding to the situation. so, our government either needs to get
out of there, or they need to take a stand on the human rights."

the crumbled relationship you sing about in "don't give that girl a gun,"
is that based on something you recently went through?

"oh yeah. all my songs are based on fact. they're literal. that's my life,
you know. it's real direct. i'm not quite sure everything i meant by it,
but it's kind of a tortured love song. it's literal, and most people know
what it's about i mean, don't print who it is. she knows it. but, i mean,
you can say i'm gay 'til the cows come home...

so are you going to be on the cover of people magazine with a headline
going 'yes, i'm gay!' next?

(laughs) "uhh nah but it's a breakup song, and it's also a love song. it's
a 'don't let go' song, that's what i'd call it, and it's sad. but it wasn't
supposed to be as sad as it is. it's kind of a drag."

[quoted in big letters]
i think they should legalize pot.
i really do.
i think it's really stupid that they haven't.

are you a creationist or a darwinist?

"i don't know um, i think i'm a darwinist to a degree but i think there's
some holes in that, too. obviously. i mean, we don't know everything i
don't believe in a literal interpretation of genesis. at all it's
impossible and i don't believe it. i believe in this overall holistic
vision of how people were trying to explain how we came, and how we
discovered knowledge about ourselves, and discovered knowledge about
creation, and how we were redeemed at one time or another. revelations, and
redemptions, and different cycles of life. so, i don't know."

what do you think should be taught in schools?

"i think they should teach it all. oh yeah, i think you should learn as
many different perspectives as possible about things. even though, as a
young person,school, for instance, i think it's probably hard to grasp that
many ideas, and people say kids need boundaries, and they need direction. i
don't believe that. i believe in offering all of it up, and maybe you're
gonna confuse somebody for awhile, but they'll figure it out later."

what sort of religious teaching did you have growing up?

"i was brought up as a methodist, and have a couple uncles that are
ministers, and my granddad was [a minister], and we went to church every
sunday, and i was in the youth group, and sunday school, did everything. i
went to decatur methodist, and it was a very pragmatic sort of church. we
had a couple of ministers that i didn't agree with about anything, and then
we had a couple that, they'd read philosophy during the sermon, and quote
really cool people, and i was like, 'wow, this is so radical!' it was never
that idea of fundamentalism i was initiated into the idea of asking
questions early on. but i'm not a christian. i have a relationship with
jesus, but it's my own, and it's not a christian one. jesus is one part of
everything i believe. you know, christianity imposes the idea that 'this is
the only way to salvation,' and i don't believe it. i'm more of a pagan.
i'm a pagan for jesus!"

why did choose to use smoke as you backing band on "hey kind friend"?

"i love smoke! it's like love walking into the room. i wrote that song
after traveling around a little bit. these last couple years i'm kind of a
recluse but i went on the road for this song, to run away a little bit from
things. and it's just a journey song. and i felt very hobo-like when i was
going through these experiences, and kind of like a vagabond without a
home. so, smoke was my ideal band."

i kind of expected it to sound more like smoke than it
does.

"yeah, i did, too. but it's funny, 'cause to me, it sounds like smoke,
'cause i know what it sounded like before, before we did it with them. i
think the thing
that people don't understand is what great musicians those guys are. it's
not like they had to make it their song, you know. like, some bands we play
with, they can't adapt - it's gotta be their way, or it can't happen. but
with them, it's not like that. they were really gracious and wanted to do
the song in the way that the song was, even though i didn't care one way or
the other. but in the end i was really glad. i wanted a little more
benjamin in it, but that was a particular day, and it's hit or miss."

have you ever done a bunch of drugs?

"a bunch? (laughs) well, i've done my share, but it's relative, isn't it?
for me, uh, no, probably not as much as i could. (laughs) my issue with
drugs now is, you don't know what you're getting ever, and the best things
that are natural and organic aren't available. it's a drag."

do you think they should be legalized?

"oh, i definitely think they should legalize pot. and i think they should
legalize opiates in general that come from a natural form. i don't think
they should legalize coke. or heroin. i just think they're evil. i think
cocaine, well, it's a drug of privilege, for one thing, but i don't know,
for some reason, i draw the line, as far as legalization goes, at that. i
don't know why. it might be some weird thing in my own psyche about what i
think is a good
drug, and what isn't a good drug. but i think they should legalize pot. i
really do. i think it's really stupid that they haven't. and hash, and
probably opium in it's purest form. it's just, all these things when they
start boiling stuff down, and changing it, and doing this and that, and it
takes time, and they make a lot of money off it, something's wrong with
that, to me."

if pot was legal, don't you think it would be totally regulated by the
government, and diluted, and additives put into it?

"not if you grew it at your own home, though. i mean, that's an issue. if
they legalize it, does it become another tobacco industry? which is
complete bullshit, we all know. and if that was gonna happen, i would be
against it. i almost think, legalize it, but don't make it something that's
allowed to be sold, as far as big corporations go. make it something that
you can grow in your backyard. i don't know. put something in [the law] to
keep it from becoming a corporate international company."

that's kind of hard to do if something's legal. if it's legal, shouldn't
anyone be allowed to buy or sell it?

"yeah, but 'exxon marijuana'?"

but who's to say they shouldn't be allowed to sell it if they want, if it's
legal?

"i don't know. these are good questions. that's probably why i'm not on the
city council or anything."

what inspired 'scooter boys'?

"well, it's sort of a personal song that turned into a political song, you
know. imperialism, and such we did a lot of stuff in the last couple of
years on indigenous rights, in north america, and in mexico i think a lot
ofpeople in the us don't think about the fact that central and south
america having similar situations with colonialism, etc. you may be a
spanish-speaking south american person, but you could be someone who is a
colonizer just as easily as, you know, in north america, we, the white
people, are colonizers. so it's kind of like the same dynamics, almost down
there. it's interesting to recognize the patterns, because it presents
itself to you, i think, when you're becoming politicized you
recognize what's driving them is greed. and money. and the power structure of
corporations is what's driving them at this point. and so, i think in that
song i was trying to say, look, i'm a person from a blue blood, i come from
privilege, and i'm just as bad as the next person. i reap the benefits of
what we've done to these people"

but you feel guilty about it?

"i don't feel guilty. i feel like it's a fact that i have a legacy of
destruction in my bloodline, basically. but it doesn't mean that you have
to continue it. i mean, we've benefited from it. we have all these
resources at our fingertips, and we have wealth and shelter and food and
everything you can imagine, and it's like, recognize that you're benefiting
from something, but don't let it continue, i think is what i'm saying. i
think the song is really attacking the idea of the raping of the land for
resources. stealing from the best. we all think we're the wisest and the
best, and that the corporations and the profits and all this stuff is
progress,that it's the best way to go, but it's not, necessarily. there's a
lot to be said for the things we leave behind, and the things that we don't
understand anymore in our traditions."

have you ever thought of running for any sort of public office?

"emily talks about it, but i don't know. part of me feels like working
within that system would be good, and part of me feels like i'm better off
organizing on a different level. and lobbying the people that are on the
council and stuff, instead of actually being one of them. but politics is
very important to me. but the political structure is probably not one that
i'd be very good at, 'cause i'm
sort of anti-authority, and i have a problem with rules, and i think i
might work best outside of that. but i'm gonna stay involved. i mean, i'm
only gonna get more involved as time goes on, i'm sure...we'll just vote
for emily!"

�1997. speak your mind: sandsmag@monsterbit.com

  -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
                                  andrea lipman
                        e-mail: ablipman@sas.upenn.edu
                 homepage: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~ablipman

         "big dipper hangin over the city you know everything now is
      different for me ain't no use in explainin the scenery"-amy ray
  _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 07:52:10 +0200
reply-to: mic webster <g91w5341@kudu.ru.ac.za>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: mic webster <g91w5341@kudu.ru.ac.za>
subject: re: song of the week redux
x-to: "christopher m. becker" <cmbecker@space.mit.edu>
in-reply-to: <199705071418.kaa26595@netspace.org>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> now that sots is availiable world-wide (can someone in japan and oz
> confirm this) and we've all had an opportunity to get the album and

confirmation that it is not available in south africa, i went to the
music store yesterday and they said about another two months, i asked
how long it would take to order an import and they said three months ...
mic
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

i say i am open-minded but what i think is. - jeanette winterson

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 02:12:25 pdt
reply-to: jan hallford <jhllfrd@galstar.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: jan hallford <jhllfrd@galstar.com>
subject: re: sots geography
in-reply-to: <v03102800af9701491664@[207.50.45.9]>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mapiextension=".txt"
content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

> hey...have y'all noticed that this is emily and amy's geography album?
> lesse, we have...
>
> i count 21 geographical references. that's above average, as far as i can
> tell.

remember that the tentative title of this cd was "map"? = )

jennifer w.

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 02:55:50 -0500
reply-to: "amanda c. goad" <mander@owlnet.rice.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "amanda c. goad" <mander@owlnet.rice.edu>
subject: drunken ig singalongs
mime-version: 1.0
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wow.  i think my appreciation for the girls has just hit a new level of some
sort....today was our last day of classes, and several dozen people, mostly
seniors, are on my hall now celebrating in a fairly alcoholic fashion.  they
have a stereo turned up fairly loud, too, and someone stuck in 1200
curfews...first i got to hear midnight train, with drunken accompaniment,
and now it's ctf...with a large crowd screaming along on the "got my paper"
line.  somehow that is just really cool to hear--these people are normally
glam-rock fans.  anyway...sorry, just reporting an ig moment...
amanda c. goad
rice pride/rice college bowl/rice veggie club/sid women's football/fondren
govpubs
"go on and have your weddings, big-lettered invitations..." -- danielle howle

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 07:45:23 -0400
reply-to: lisa tatonetti <tatonetti.2@osu.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: lisa tatonetti <tatonetti.2@osu.edu>
subject: columbus lilith date
mime-version: 1.0
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hey all,
just in case it hasn't been posted yet, the columbus date for the lilith
fair goes on sale saturday, june 14th.
lisa

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 08:42:20 -0500
reply-to: sarah wagoner <sarah-wagoner@library.wustl.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: sarah wagoner <sarah-wagoner@library.wustl.edu>
subject: last night's ellen (nigc)
mime-version: 1.0
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just wonderin'...did anyone else notice that there was a jeep commercial
during ellen last night? maybe the phone calls to chrysler are
working....

hmm...wish my parents could turn around in the time span of a 30-minute
sitcom! :) (it kinda had that "brady bunch" feel to it!)

peace
sarah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"every five years or so
i look back on my life
and i have a good laugh..."
-emily saliers
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 10:05:09 -0400
reply-to: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
subject: the demise of ellen (nigc)
in-reply-to: <pine.sol.3.95q.970508083604.1864a-100000@library.wustl.edu>
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i watched ellen's show last night, and think i've seen the demise of that
show. it will continue to make all the steretypical jokes about gays and
lesbians coming out to all sorts of stereotypical reactions. as i was
sitting there watching, i was calling out what would happen -- "walk out,
dad!" and he did, etc.

ellen's show will become increasingly stereotypical and increasingly far
from reality of gay and lesbian lifestyles.

it's sad, really, since ellen's show was pretty good. in taking up the
standard, she's condemned herself to a genre of jokes that will soon dry
up. in the past, ellen's show was widely humorous and dealt with many
topics. now, it will be reduced to a curiosity... "let's tune in to see
what the lesbian is up to!"...

==========================================================================
drew vogel: coordinator of professional programs at the university of
cincinnati college of pharmacy. actor, director, ibm fanatic, technical
writer, dog (jrt) lover, single guy, & much, much more! try my home page
at: "http://ucunix.san.uc.edu/~vogelap" "the only way out is through."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
dug: you da man! you da man!
ric: isn't "the man" the guy who's always bringing everyone down?
dug: nope! 'cause you da man!!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 10:05:06 -0400
reply-to: deb <indigo@mindspring.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: deb <indigo@mindspring.com>
subject: re: scooter boys and amy's singing
in-reply-to: <199705072311.tab03662@mime4.prodigy.com>
mime-version: 1.0
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at 07:11 pm 5/7/97 -0500, molly jane b murphy wrote:
>the high notes are sung by michelle malone..not amy or em

what do you base that on? i know that amy sang the "yeahs" just like they
are on the album when she was at au.

--
deb \\ indigo@mindspring.com \\ http://www.mindspring.com/~indigo
____________________________________________________________________________
"it's possible to get an acoustic guitar to sound like a mac truck"
- ani difranco in an npr interview

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 10:29:27 -0400
reply-to: deanna light <drlight@mindspring.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: deanna light <drlight@mindspring.com>
subject: cornet solo in "hey kind friend"
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so is it just me, or is the cornet solo from "hey kind friend" actually the
hymn "this is my father's world"? the first verse is something like:

"this is my father's world,
and to my list'ning ears
all nature sings, and 'round me rings
the music of the spheres."

it would kinda fit with the feel of the song -- "ain't no use in explaining
the scenery" (or something like that), she says, which kind of fits with the
sentiment of the hymn. somebody confirm this so i'll know i'm not
experiencing auditory hallucinations.

deanna light
(a lurker speaks!)
--
deanna light
drlight@mindspring.com

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 10:39:59 -0400
reply-to: renee l grebe <grebe+@cmu.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: renee l grebe <grebe+@cmu.edu>
subject: re: the demise of ellen (nigc)
in-reply-to: <pine.ult.3.95.970508095947.13544a-100000@ucunix.san.uc.edu>

excerpts from mail: 8-may-97 the demise of ellen (nigc) by drew
vogel@ucunix.san.uc
> in the past, ellen's show was widely humorous and dealt with many
> topics. now, it will be reduced to a curiosity... "let's tune in to see
> what the lesbian is up to!"..

on the contrary. i think that ellen will continue to use the
stereotypical jokes for a little while; i think it helps espcially
heterosexuals to understand her point of view.

but, i also think that the plot will move on. i think abc realizes that
this whole same thing will get old fast, but, nonetheless, they will
have to deal with it for a little while. i have every confidence in
ellen that the plot will move on.

on the same note, i loved in last night's episode how paige was so
distressed that one ever listened to her anymore! i think that that is
the direction the show will head.....

let's hope at least!
renee

>
>no, i disagree.  while it is a ulali song, it is also a line that is
>common in many ceremonies.  i think this is their way of acknowledging
>everyone without thanking each person by name.  others have stated good
>reasons why the ig would have kept the thanks more private this time.
>
>in the book _lakota woman_ mary crow dog describes a time when she took
>part in a sweat lodge ceremony.  each person had to stay in until the heat
>was unbearable and he/she could stand it no longer.  the person would say,
>"all my relations," and then duck out of the tent to cool off for a bit.
>i am sure that this is only one example of the way that the phrase is used
>in ceremonies.
>
>-garian
- i totally agree with this... at the sweat lodges, one says "all
my relations" before entering and when leaving.  i believe it's a
way of aknowledging those you love and hate, and the lodge helps you
gain perspective.
-alicia
"all i've learned has been in vain, like water on a stain"
                              -amy ray
"your hatred is rooted in your fear, and your paranoia and
insecurities, well they don't belong here."
                              -amy ray
"i walk like a woman and talk like a man.  i said i am who the
fuck i am..."
                              -melissa ferrick

---------------------------------------------------------
get your *web-based* free email at http://www.hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 11:15:11 -0400
reply-to: nancy humphries <nancy@rbdc.rbdc.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: nancy humphries <nancy@rbdc.rbdc.com>
subject: anyone else get this?
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

just curious...did anyone else see this in their email box?
i'm definitely not interested, but wondered if anyone else on the
listserv got this, too.

date: wed, 7 may 1997 03:38:52 +0000
from: nancy johns<muzik@lcp-yoda.com>
to: muzik@lcp-yoda.com
subject: indigo girls concert
posters would you like to be notified when i have some indigo girls
concert posters and/or memorabilia for sale?
 please reply to muzik@lcp-yoda.com
 thanks and have a wonderful day!
 nancy
~

curious if this has already been posted or is being worked on?

denise

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 10:44:39 -0400
reply-to: sharon parker <sparke61@violet.umfacad.maine.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: sharon parker <sparke61@violet.umfacad.maine.edu>
subject: re: the demise of ellen (nigc)
x-to: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
in-reply-to: <pine.ult.3.95.970508095947.13544a-100000@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
mime-version: 1.0
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on thu, 8 may 1997, drew vogel wrote:

> i watched ellen's show last night, and think i've seen the demise of that
> show. it will continue to make all the steretypical jokes about gays and
> lesbians coming out to all sorts of stereotypical reactions. as i was
> sitting there watching, i was calling out what would happen -- "walk out,
> dad!" and he did, etc.
>
> ellen's show will become increasingly stereotypical and increasingly far
> from reality of gay and lesbian lifestyles.
>
> it's sad, really, since ellen's show was pretty good. in taking up the
> standard, she's condemned herself to a genre of jokes that will soon dry
> up. in the past, ellen's show was widely humorous and dealt with many
> topics. now, it will be reduced to a curiosity... "let's tune in to see
> what the lesbian is up to!"...
>

now now, i think this is very unfair...ellen couldn't just come out of the
closet without addressing many of the problems that gay people have when
they do it. this doesn't mean that her entire show for the rest of her
career is going to be stereotypical, and besides, it's only stereotypical
for those who know what gays go through in the first place. there are
many straight people who have never given any of these topics much thought
or have never had to deal with a gay child coming out to them who are
seeing for the first time what it's like.
relax! give ellen a break. i'm glad someone is finally doing what she's
doing. it's about time!!!!

                                            not a flame
                                               just my opinion
                                      sharoane
*******************************************************************************
          if at first you don't fricassee, fry fry a hen
*******************************************************************************

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 11:43:54 -0500
reply-to: joolz <jwolfenden@clarku.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: joolz <jwolfenden@clarku.edu>
subject: nigc- lilith fair, mansfield, ma info
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i thought some folks would like to know (apologies if
this info has already been sent to the list):

the lilith fair at great woods in mansfield, ma is
scheduled for july 22nd.

it will feature sarah mclachlan, tracy chapman, paula cole,
fiona apple and the cardigans. juliana hatfield, victoria williams
and autour de lucie will perform on a second stage.

tix are $36 and $26 and go on sale at noon sunday (may 11th) and
are available from next ticketing. by phone, call 617-423-next or
617-423-6000. next outlets are in select newbury comics stores
(including shrewsbury, ma).

i agree that many of the jokes and reactions were stereotypical; however, i
don't think this is a bad thing at all.  the stereotypical responses are
common enough that making them well known can be helpful in a way.  actually,
i felt some sympathy for the dad in that it was made obvious that the source
of his anger was from grief over the loss of his own dreams of stereotypical
fatherhood and grandfatherhood.  of course, he "came around" in a very short
time - that is the unrealistic part.

the other dad in the group who said ellen was "sick" is also the kind of
thing that has to be dealt with. again, although stereotypical, that kind of
behavior is very real.

just one more particular example - i would hate to count how many times i
have been asked what do two women do in bed? philosopher claudia card has
even bothered to address the question "what constitutes doing it?"

as far as i am concerned, so many of these initial questions were addressed
in one short show, that i can't imagine that the thread will continue
indefinitely.

kathy

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 10:55:29 -0500
reply-to: "dr. urvashi pitre" <upitre@gamma.is.tcu.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "dr. urvashi pitre" <upitre@gamma.is.tcu.edu>
subject: desktop ig: resources
content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

okay since i (unwittingly) started a volume of mail about the ig theme, i
thought i may as well volunteer to help those who are busy constructing
this theme. others who simply can't wait, can fiddle with things on their
own with the help of shareware available on the net. the programs that are
helpful are :

1. graphics workshop. (downloadable from www.mindworkshop.com ) . this
shareware program translates various art files into bmp, jpg, and other
popular graphics forms. supports at least 20 different formats.

2. microangelo which is an icon-creator (download at www.mindmaster.com )
that takes any picture and converts it into an icon. so you could take the
hammer picture for example and save it as an icon that you could use to
represent "your computer".

3. a quick yahoo search will reveal several shareware programs that convert
ordinary pictures into screen savers. one you might try is amazing jpeg
screen saver-16 bit, available for download at http://www.download.com/p
c/result/download/0,21,0-15172,00.html {probably an easier way is to go to
www.download.com and search for 'create screen savers').

4. you can also find several places that offer free downloads of cursors
and icons, and most musical themed ones will have guitars and such. try
http://www.shareware.com and search for animated cursors. anicurs2.zip is
pretty good.

5. windows95 has good instructions on how to save all these together as
themes.

6. share your amazing finds with the rest of us. enjoy!

urvashi urma@juno.com

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 10:22:12 -0400
reply-to: deb <indigo@mindspring.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: deb <indigo@mindspring.com>
subject: imaginary flames
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at 09:29 pm 5/7/97 -0700, tom jobes wrote:
>i've been of this list for several months now, and except for the poul
>espisode, i haven't seen a single flame worth the name.  not even in
>the spelling-and-punctuation wars.  just some snippy stuff that should
>have been ignored.  if you want to see a real flame war, check out the
>usenet group soc.bi any day of the week.

you're right.  there are very few real flames here.  just a lot of
sensitive people who get their dander up when things aren't just *so* on
the ig list.  this list takes its community spirit very seriously.  it is
in many ways a very homogeneous bunch, often very defensive about
differences in opinions or personalities.  thus, anything but shiny happy
people (obatlreference) tend to rock the boat, even while the waters are
generally calm.

--
deb \\ indigo@mindspring.com \\ http://www.mindspring.com/~indigo
____________________________________________________________________________
"i'm a pagan for jesus!" - amy ray

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 11:07:12 -0500
reply-to: "jennifer n. loesch" <jloesch@usibr01.usi.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "jennifer n. loesch" <jloesch@usibr01.usi.edu>
subject: need tix:5/24 & 5/25 chastain
x-to: sarah wagoner <sarah-wagoner@library.wustl.edu>
in-reply-to: <pine.sol.3.95q.970508083604.1864a-100000@library.wustl.edu>
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does anyone know if the concerts at chastain are sold out for the shows
on the 24th and 25th? does anyone have 3 tix to either show? please,
somebody respond...

jenn

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 11:27:22 -0400
reply-to: sharon parker <sparke61@violet.umfacad.maine.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: sharon parker <sparke61@violet.umfacad.maine.edu>
subject: stereotypes and ellen (nigc)
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with all this talk of all the characters involved in the new coming out
theme on "ellen" acting in stereotypical ways...just remember that
stereotypes are based on facts, so of course people are going to fit
them...
   also, i've been asked that same "what do two women do in bed together"
question three times this year, by good friends of mine.  i like to quote
dorothy allison on that one--"everything!"
                             sharoane

*******************************************************************************
if at first you don't fricassee, fry fry a hen
*******************************************************************************

>
> just curious...did anyone else see this in their email box?
> i'm definitely not interested, but wondered if anyone else on the
> listserv got this, too.
>
> n.
>
>
>
> date: wed, 7 may 1997 03:38:52 +0000
> from: nancy johns<muzik@lcp-yoda.com>
> to: muzik@lcp-yoda.com
> subject: indigo girls concert
> posters would you like to be notified when i have some indigo girls
> concert posters and/or memorabilia for sale?
> please reply to muzik@lcp-yoda.com
> thanks and have a wonderful day!
> nancy
> ~
>

yup, i got it too... 'course it was sent to the list, so i would guess
everyone got it...

;)

mark
----
*********************************************************
$   mark f. lichtenberger @ micom communications corp.  $
$    email: lib@micom.com  voice: 805-577-2269          $
$          "baby i said it's all in our hands,          $
$   got to learn to respect what we don't understand"   $
$                             - amy ray                 $
*********************************************************

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 09:13:24 -0700
reply-to: "amy j. putnam" <pegasus@crl.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "amy j. putnam" <pegasus@crl.com>
subject: re: the demise of ellen (nigc)
x-to: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
in-reply-to: <pine.ult.3.95.970508095947.13544a-100000@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
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let me guess, drew....you're straight.  what was portrayed on ellen last\
week and this week were very very accurate protrayls of the experiences
of many gays and lesbians.  i came out to my parents at our house.
noone walked out, but the whole blame and "i dont want to know" thing
happened.  coming out to poeple close to us is a minefield and
you often dont know what step wil blow up in your face.  what happend
\with ellen's dad was not at all out of step with reality.  in fact,
in some ways it is a reverse mirror of what heppend in ellen's real
life..her parents asked her to move out of their house.

> it's sad, really, since ellen's show was pretty good. in taking up the >
standard, she's condemned herself to a genre of jokes that will soon dry >
up. in the past, ellen's show was widely humorous and dealt with many >
topics. now, it will be reduced to a curiosity... "let's tune in to see >
what the lesbian is up to!"... > >

yeah, let's. and let's see that lesbians live everyday lives just
as everyone else does and dispel those nasty myths about being creepy
people based only on sexuality.

                          _________
amy p.                    \       /     who holds your hand
pegasus@crl.com            \     /      when you're alone
monk@world.std.com          \   /
the original photo monk      \ /                --patty larkin

>
> > i watched ellen's show last night, and think i've seen the demise of
that
> > show. it will continue to make all the steretypical jokes about gays
and
> > lesbians coming out to all sorts of stereotypical reactions. as i was
> > sitting there watching, i was calling out what would happen -- "walk
out,
> > dad!" and he did, etc.
> >
> > ellen's show will become increasingly stereotypical and increasingly
far
> > from reality of gay and lesbian lifestyles.
>
> let me guess, drew....you're straight.  what was portrayed on ellen
last\
> week and this week were very very accurate protrayls of the experiences
> of many gays and lesbians.  i came out to my parents at our house.
> noone walked out, but the whole blame and "i dont want to know" thing
> happened.  coming out to poeple close to us is a minefield and
> you often dont know what step wil blow up in your face.  what happend
> \with ellen's dad was not at all out of step with reality.  in fact,
> in some ways it is a reverse mirror of what heppend in ellen's real
> life..her parents asked her to move out of their house.
>
>
> > it's sad, really, since ellen's show was pretty good. in taking up the
>
> standard, she's condemned herself to a genre of jokes that will soon dry
>
> up. in the past, ellen's show was widely humorous and dealt with many >
> topics. now, it will be reduced to a curiosity... "let's tune in to see
>
> what the lesbian is up to!"... > >
>
> yeah, let's.  and let's see that lesbians live everyday lives just
> as everyone else does and dispel those nasty myths about being creepy
> people based only on sexuality.
>
>
>                          _________
> amy p.                    \       /     who holds your hand
> pegasus@crl.com            \     /      when you're alone
> monk@world.std.com          \   /
> the original photo monk      \ /                --patty larkin
>

right on amy!!!

if you ask me, though, i think that "ellen" using stereotypes is a positive
thing.  think about it:  it's not only using stereotypes, it's making fun of
them.  it's like saying to the homophobic "community":  "do you see how
ridiculous these stereotypes are?"  "can't you see how silly you're being?"

that's, at least, how i see it.

teddi

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 13:48:10 -0400
reply-to: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
subject: re: the demise of ellen (nigc)
x-to: "amy j. putnam" <pegasus@crl.com>
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on thu, 8 may 1997, amy j. putnam wrote:

> > i watched ellen's show last night, and think i've seen the demise of that
> > show. it will continue to make all the steretypical jokes about gays and
> > lesbians coming out to all sorts of stereotypical reactions. as i was
> > sitting there watching, i was calling out what would happen -- "walk out,
> > dad!" and he did, etc.
> >
> > ellen's show will become increasingly stereotypical and increasingly far
> > from reality of gay and lesbian lifestyles.
>
> let me guess, drew....you're straight.  what was portrayed on ellen last\
> week and this week were very very accurate protrayls of the experiences
> of many gays and lesbians.  i came out to my parents at our house.
> noone walked out, but the whole blame and "i dont want to know" thing
> happened.  coming out to poeple close to us is a minefield and
> you often dont know what step wil blow up in your face.  what happend
> \with ellen's dad was not at all out of step with reality.  in fact,
> in some ways it is a reverse mirror of what heppend in ellen's real
> life..her parents asked her to move out of their house.
>
what kind of comment is that?! let's say that i said:
"let me guess, amy... you're overweight."
is that fair? just because you might be gay does not mean that you have
access to secrets that straights don't. geez.

my sexuality has precious little to do with my observations. i, too, know
the minefield of coming out, but that doesn't change my feelings about
ellen's show becoming an insipid and 'one-joke' show.

in fact, i would think that our homosexual community would be most vocal
about this. sure, it is truly great that she came out on public tv, but
why not make her deal with situations that are less stereotypical and more
realistic so that the world at large can see g/l as more than 2
dimenensional cutouts?

one of the best emails i've gotten about this topic was from someone who
said something like, 'sure, they're stereotypes. but only folks in the g/l
community will understand, since many others haven't had to deal with it
before.' (not a quote)

> yeah, let's. and let's see that lesbians live everyday lives just
> as everyone else does and dispel those nasty myths about being creepy
> people based only on sexuality.
>
i think that is a good goal, albeit a lofty one for a measley sitcom. i
also don't think that ellen's show will work toward those goals.

of couse, i may be wrong. if so, i've got a great recipe for crow!

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 13:50:14 -0400
reply-to: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
subject: re: the demise of ellen (nigc)
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on thu, 8 may 1997 teddi32873@aol.com wrote:

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 13:53:24 -0400
reply-to: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
subject: re: stereotypes and ellen (nigc)
x-to: sharon parker <sparke61@violet.umfacad.maine.edu>
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on thu, 8 may 1997, sharon parker wrote:

> with all this talk of all the characters involved in the new coming out
> theme on "ellen" acting in stereotypical ways...just remember that
> stereotypes are based on facts, so of course people are going to fit
> them...
>
sure, and all black people are criminals and love watermelon.

what are you thinking about?

> also, i've been asked that same "what do two women do in bed together"
> question three times this year, by good friends of mine. i like to quote
> dorothy allison on that one--"everything!"
>
that's probably the best response to that type of question. mind if i use
it too?

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 13:56:20 -0400
reply-to: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
subject: re: the demise of ellen (nigc)
x-to: mat3kmg@aol.com
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on thu, 8 may 1997 mat3kmg@aol.com wrote:

> i agree that many of the jokes and reactions were stereotypical; however, i
> don't think this is a bad thing at all.  the stereotypical responses are
> common enough that making them well known can be helpful in a way.  actually,
> i felt some sympathy for the dad in that it was made obvious that the source
> of his anger was from grief over the loss of his own dreams of stereotypical
> fatherhood and grandfatherhood.  of course, he "came around" in a very short
> time - that is the unrealistic part.
>
didn't you feel at all manipulated by the short-time handling of this
sensative issue? what if ellen had, instead of tying everything up into a
neat little package at the end of the show, let dad be angry/upset for a
couple of episodes? they dealt in 22 minutes with something that my family
is still dealing with.

> as far as i am concerned, so many of these initial questions were addressed
> in one short show, that i can't imagine that the thread will continue
> indefinitely.
>
well, i suppose i agree with you on one count -- if they keep going at
this clip through all sorts of life-affecting issues, they're going to
flat run out of things to deal with!

i'm prolly gonna get flamed for this, but....
has to share this "review" with all of you, so i wouldn't be alone in my
annoyed-ness. i know, i know, it's just one man's opinion, and i shouldn't let
it get to me.....but it did. i actually sputtered while reading it aloud to
someone. i think once i post it, i'll get it out my system. so thank you in
advance for putting up with it. :)
btw, this review was in "the onion," a satirical (but with serious av review
stuff) newsweekly based here in madison.

indigo girls
shaming of the sun
(epic)
rumors of an indigo girls breakup have circulated in recent months, due in
large part to the several years it took for the duo to record a follow-up to
the well-received swamp ophelia. (the release of a two-disc live album in 1995
didn't help; it smacked of contract fulfillment.) but shaming of the sun is
finally out, and it's as scattershot a recording as the band has ever made:
there's a crowd-pleasing surefire hit ("get out the map"), a song that
actually employs programmed beats and samples ("shed your skin"), and tracks
that address everything from immigrant-bashing ("shame on you") to
church-burning ("leeds") to colonialism ("scooter boys"). there's even "it's
alright," a "yep, we're gay" song for those who hadn't figured it out already.
shaming of the sun gets increasingly aimless and heavy-handed as it
progresses: by the time you get to musically cluttered material like "cut it
out" and "burn all the letters," you'll long for the days when indigo girls
just made simple, emotionally resonant records that didn't collapse under the
weight of their ambitions. --stephen thompson

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 14:28:15 -0400
reply-to: sejarez <phite@cybergate.net>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: sejarez <phite@cybergate.net>
subject: re: sots geography
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>illinois (benjamin's words)

did we ever figure out what he says?

i musta missed it. could someone fill me in??

rob
**********************************************
* "may the great mystery make sunrise        *
*  in your heart."  --sioux indian saying    *
*                                            *
* "the flesh is strong, the spirit stronger  *
*   so shed your skin baby, let it through!" *
*                           --amy ray        *
**********************************************

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 13:49:42 -0700
reply-to: "william r. norris iii (2 bills)" <wnorris@mail.slc.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "william r. norris iii (2 bills)" <wnorris@mail.slc.edu>
organization: sarah lawrence college
subject: wfuv giving away tix to msg show
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wfuv (90.7 fm) in nyc is giving away tickets to the 6/3 show at msg all
this week...i think its for station members only...

they are also going to have wfuv spotters at the garden looking for
banners, etc. that show support for the ig and wfuv. the best displays
will be given a pair of back stage passes.

peace,
bill

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 14:31:20 -0400
reply-to: audrey beth stein <abstein@force.stwing.upenn.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: audrey beth stein <abstein@force.stwing.upenn.edu>
subject: crayola trivia, and a question
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i was visiting the crayola site in an attempt to find out the html codes
for red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and violet.  no such luck
-- can anyone help me out?  (i'm trying to add a little color to the
color me indigo logo.)  crayola doesn't even seem to *make* indigo
crayons...unless anyone can prove me wrong here i think it's about time
for a protest.  heck, it's not like it's an unusual color -- it's part of
the friggin rainbow!

anyway, i found this trivia question and thought it might interest some
of you:

#4. audio markers?

question: we don't usually recommend coloring on your audio compact
discs. but some music fans say they use markers on their cds all the
time. can you guess why?

answer: music fans use markers to "tweak" their compact discs by
drawing a line around the outer edge of discs to increase sound quality. the
marker line reportedly refracts the laser beam to produce a deeper,
richer sound. enthusiasts say green markers work best.

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 14:48:32 -0400
reply-to: kim paulus <kpaulus@mpinc.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: kim paulus <kpaulus@mpinc.com>
subject: re: the demise of ellen (nigc)
x-to: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
mime-version: 1.0
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        >in fact, i would think that our homosexual community would be
most vocal
> >about this. sure, it is truly great that she came out on public tv,
> but
> >why not make her deal with situations that are less stereotypical and
> more
> >realistic so that the world at large can see g/l as more than 2
> >dimenensional cutouts?
>
> so, a gay person coming out of the closet, telling his or her parents
> and trying to help them understand is not realistic?  it's a
> stereotype that many parents are disappointed that their children are
> gay because they don't live up to the "standard american family" that
> the parents expected them to?  were we watching the same show?  pretty
> much the only part of that show that wasn't realistic was that ellen's
> parents accepted her completely in so short a time, but you know,
> that's why it's a sitcom.  if they dragged that out for years (which
> would be much more realistic), that *would* be the demise of the show.
>
> >one of the best emails i've gotten about this topic was from someone
> who
> >said something like, 'sure, they're stereotypes. but only folks in
> the g/l
> >community will understand, since many others haven't had to deal with
> it
> >before.' (not a quote)
>
> exactly.  they haven't had to deal with it.  so they have all these
> sterotypes about what gay people are like... we lead unhappy lives,
> we're going through phases, etc.  showing ellen directly rebuking
> these stereotypes, by words and by actions, serves a great purpose to
> both the straight and lgbt communities.  a half dozen friends and i
> sat in my living room watching this show last night hoping that our
> parents were watching too... and hoping that other straight people
> were getting a good look at what a huge issue in our lives is...
> because we get bombarded with their issues the 23 and half hours of
> the rest of the day.
>
> it would not have been right for ellen to have this huge coming out
> episode, and then la-di-da, go about the rest of her life like nothing
> happened.  these are issues that have to be dealt with for the logic
> of the show... she comes out to her parents, she comes out to her
> boss, then she goes about the rest of her life, albeit with a
> different perspective, but not necessarily with a different focus.
> she still cares about her friends, her job, and moving into her new
> house.  just like i care about my career, my friends, and finding a
> new apartment.
>
> >> yeah, let's.  and let's see that lesbians live everyday lives just
> >> as everyone else does and dispel those nasty myths about being
> creepy
> >>people based only on sexuality.
>
> >i think that is a good goal, albeit a lofty one for a measley sitcom.
> i
> >also don't think that ellen's show will work toward those goals.
>
> obviously, i disagree with your opinion.  i think that they the show
> will work toward's these goals.  however, i agree with you that the
> show might be on it's way to a slow death.  i think that enough people
> really just don't care about the life of a bookstore manager who has
> slightly off-the-wall friends and who also happens to be a lesbian,
> and i think that's unfortunate for the rest of us who do.  i think
> that people would rather turn off their tv's and pretend either that
> gay people don't exist, or that they really do lead the hedonistic
> lifestyle they have imagined in their heads.
>
> kim
> kpaulus@mpinc.com
>

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 15:05:59 -0400
reply-to: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
subject: poul
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you all are not going to believe the email i got from poul the other day!
that's all i can say right now -- i've sent back to him to ask if i could
post it (after learning my lesson about posting public without asking
first, thankyouverymuch).

i hope he says i can post it. you won't believe your eyes.

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 13:35:31 -0500
reply-to: littlebit <patterj@mail.auburn.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: littlebit <patterj@mail.auburn.edu>
subject: re: ellen demise
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i would like to commment on the whole ellen thing.
first of all, i believe that last night's show, though solved fast, was an
accurate portrayal of many gay/lesbian's and their experiences with their
parents. i think that she should live up to the "stereotypes" for a while.
i mean they are the thruth as for as coming out to people and all: i know
that when i first came out that was the majority of my life, but now it is
just a little part of it...i think we will see that next season etc..with
ellen's character.
remeber this famous quote: if you can't laugh at yourself you'll cry your
eyes out!---??????

bjp

**************************
* rebecca j. patterson   *
* patterj@mail.auburn.edu*
* health administration  *
* auburn university      *
**************************

"when you learn to love yourself
you will dissolve all the stones that are cast." -- amy ray

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 14:27:34 -0400
reply-to: sharon parker <sparke61@violet.umfacad.maine.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: sharon parker <sparke61@violet.umfacad.maine.edu>
subject: re: the demise of ellen (nigc)
x-to: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
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look drew, relax...and yes, being gay does let us in on some secrets that
other non-gay people might not know...we do have a community that is,
while not closed to straights, pretty much all gay, that many of use as a
support system. so actually, amy was right...
s

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 14:30:14 -0400
reply-to: sharon parker <sparke61@violet.umfacad.maine.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: sharon parker <sparke61@violet.umfacad.maine.edu>
subject: re: stereotypes and ellen (nigc)
x-to: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
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on thu, 8 may 1997, drew vogel wrote:

> on thu, 8 may 1997, sharon parker wrote:
>
> > with all this talk of all the characters involved in the new coming out
> > theme on "ellen" acting in stereotypical ways...just remember that
> > stereotypes are based on facts, so of course people are going to fit
> > them...
> >
> sure, and all black people are criminals and love watermelon.
>
> what are you thinking about?

um...i feel pretty qualified to say that gay stereotypes, some of them,
anyway, are based on fact...it's true. however, a small portion of our
community fits those stereotypes. i don't dare speculate on any group i'm
not part of though.
  another thing--no matter how ellen portrays a lesbian, a large group of
people will be displeased and think that she should do it a different way.
wanna know what? they should just go and do their own version!!!
                                 sharoane
*******************************************************************************
          if at first you don't fricassee, fry fry a hen
*******************************************************************************

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 15:16:43 -0400
reply-to: "joan m. cyr" <jcyr@mit.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "joan m. cyr" <jcyr@mit.edu>
subject: the fire marshall is on the scene....>:o|
x-to: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
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at 1:48 pm -0400 5/8/97, amy p./drew vogel wrote:

>> let me guess, drew....you're straight. what was portrayed on ellen last\
>> week and this week were very very accurate protrayls of the experiences
>> of many gays and lesbians......

>what kind of comment is that?! let's say that i said:
>"let me guess, amy... you're overweight."
>is that fair? just because you might be gay does not mean that you have
>access to secrets that straights don't. geez...

geez is right.....<shakes head> drew dear.....in the words of mr. spock,
your statement is highly illogical. if you're going to draw an analogy,
draw one. but what you said does not make sense to me, and quite frankly
(imho) borders on being nasty....and i'm sure you'll agree there's no room
for nastiness on this list. maybe i lost something in between the lines,
but you want to explain how an analogy is drawn between the statements "let
me guess, drew....you're straight" and "let me guess, amy... you're
overweight" when you are both talking about the acuracy of protrayls of the
experiences of a lot of g/l people? just doesn't follow. so i challenge
you....enlighten me.

joni :o|

"sometimes, the only winning move is not to play."
- a wise old computer

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 14:32:12 -0400
reply-to: sharon parker <sparke61@violet.umfacad.maine.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: sharon parker <sparke61@violet.umfacad.maine.edu>
subject: re: the demise of ellen (nigc)
x-to: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
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on thu, 8 may 1997, drew vogel wrote:

> on thu, 8 may 1997 mat3kmg@aol.com wrote:
>
> > i agree that many of the jokes and reactions were stereotypical; however, i
> > don't think this is a bad thing at all.  the stereotypical responses are
> > common enough that making them well known can be helpful in a way.  actually,
> > i felt some sympathy for the dad in that it was made obvious that the source
> > of his anger was from grief over the loss of his own dreams of stereotypical
> > fatherhood and grandfatherhood.  of course, he "came around" in a very short
> > time - that is the unrealistic part.
> >
> didn't you feel at all manipulated by the short-time handling of this
> sensative issue? what if ellen had, instead of tying everything up into a
> neat little package at the end of the show, let dad be angry/upset for a
> couple of episodes? they dealt in 22 minutes with something that my family
> is still dealing with.
>

hello! the american public doesn't have that kind of attention span.  i
think that considering that many people might stop watching ellen, or
taking into consideration that the tv season is almost over, ellen made a
wise choice!
                      s
*******************************************************************************
          if at first you don't fricassee, fry fry a hen
*******************************************************************************

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 14:33:20 -0400
reply-to: sharon parker <sparke61@violet.umfacad.maine.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: sharon parker <sparke61@violet.umfacad.maine.edu>
subject: re: poul
x-to: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
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who is poul?
s

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 15:21:42 -0400
reply-to: raine <raine@area51.homecom.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: raine <raine@area51.homecom.com>
subject: re: crayola trivia, and a question
x-to: audrey beth stein <abstein@force.stwing.upenn.edu>
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hi guys, 'tis me, i've resubscribed. i was originally sending this to
just audrey, but i thought this came up once or twice before, so i
thought i'd send it to the list.

audrey, your post was the first i received when i resubscribed.. *grin*
so feel special.

at 02:31 pm 5/8/97 -0400, audrey wrote:

>i was visiting the crayola site in an attempt to find out the html
codes

>for red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and violet. no such
luck

>-- can anyone help me out? (i'm trying to add a little color to the

>color me indigo logo.) crayola doesn't even seem to *make* indigo

>crayons...unless anyone can prove me wrong here i think it's about
time

>for a protest. heck, it's not like it's an unusual color -- it's part
of

>the friggin rainbow!

in the back of my javascript book, they have the html hex values for just
about every color. but mind you, these sometimes aren't very pretty. just
normal red, blue, yellow, etc, can get loud at times. for example, when
you go to a page with no set color for links, your browser uses the
default. think about it those links.. they're not the prettiest colors in
the world, and that's what most of these look like. i usually try to find
some variant that a little more muted.

here are the ones audrey asked for anyway:

red=ff0000

orange=ffa500

yellow=ffff00

green=008000

blue=0000ff

indigo=4b0082

violet=ee82ee

if anyone wants any more, just email me: raine@area51.homecom.com

just so you know, most browsers are capable of recognizing words
_<bold>and</bold>_ hex codes. if you don't know the hex code for
something, try the word and see if it works. the main two browsers,
netscape and internet explorer do recognize the words, prodigy/aol/others
i'm not sure about. the colors are just about any that you can think of,
and you can preface them with 'light' 'medium' and 'dark'.

example: color=darkturquoise, color=mediumslateblue,
color=lightcornflowerblue ... you get the point.

here's my favorite color site i use when i'm picking colors:

http://www.biola.edu/cgi-bin/colorpro/colorpro.cgi

you just click on the round color palette, wait for it to reload, and
voila it shows you the color you picked. careful though, sometimes you
think a certain color will look good as text when you see it as a
background and it doesn't work as well.

you can also do a search on 'color' or 'background' or 'palette' and see
what other ones turn up.

also, a lot of people don't realize that they can do their own hex
codes.. you have to have photoshop, or paintshop pro, or anything that
gives you the rgb colors, and a scientific calculator(the calculator that
comes with windows 95 can be set to scientific - just start it up, go to
'view' set to 'scientific').

say your color is r-30 g-88 b-128

punch 30 into your scientific calculator, then hit the 'hex' button.

30 becomes 1e, 88 becomes 58, 128 becomes 80

so your html hex color code is color=#1e5880

pretty simple.

wow, i'm just a plethora of information today. comes of being bored at
work i guess. enough of html colors 101. :)

>anyway, i found this trivia question and thought it might interest
some

>of you:

>#4. audio markers?

> question: we don't usually recommend coloring on your audio
compact

>discs. but some music fans say they use markers on their cds all the

> time. can you guess why?

> answer: music fans use markers to "tweak" their compact discs by

>drawing a line around the outer edge of discs to increase sound quality.
the

> marker line reportedly refracts the laser beam to produce a
deeper,

>richer sound. enthusiasts say green markers work best.

you know, i've heard that before. i've also heard that if you have a
scratched disk it can help it stop skipping etc .. i'm going to try it on
my rop disk because it's hopelessly scratched. i've also heard that green
permanent sharpies are the best to use.

ya know, it's great to be back on the list! anyone else play 'get out the
map' over and over and over and over and over and over full blast as your
driving around annoying others because it's getting hot in atlanta and
all the windows are rolled down as you drive around town? *grin* i love
that song!!!!

hofstra/scholastic tape folks: jump up and down, being mailed tonight
:)

merry thursday,

raine

ps - i added a fun new section to my web page if you want to see: (not
very ig-y though)

http://area51.homecom.com/~raine

____________________________________________________

...."safe in the arms of love's discovery"..-ig-....

..raine.......raine@area51.homecom.com.......raine..

..........http://area51.homecom.com/~raine..........

____________________________________________________

does anyone know where the art (pictures) onthe cover, and cd insert come
from? i think it might be owens valley in california but i am not sure. i run
a camp there, so i'm really curious!
thanks,

teamindigo@aol.com
or
richard_thomas@wra.k12.oh.us

"i stood without clothes, danced in the sand, i was aching with freedom,
kissing the damned."-indigo girls

>is that fair? just because you might be gay does not mean that you have
>access to secrets that straights don't. geez.

being gay in a largely homophobic culture does indeed mean that you have
access to experiences that straights don't (...geez...) like, for
example, coming out...the continual, never-ending process of coming
out which lasts your whole life or at least as long as you are in a
position to meet people who immediately assume you're straight...
and coming out to your parents is just a very surreal experience no
matter how you handle it.

i thought that the way it was handled on ellen was great. if the
responses of the characters seemed stereotypical i think that it is
because in the situations depicted people behave in very predictable
ways when confronted with this situation in real life.

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 16:02:56 -0400
reply-to: sweetjane@geocities.com
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: heather solimini <sweetjane@geocities.com>
subject: homophobia in psu women's basketball
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hi y'all,

i was wondering....did a&e talk about the situation at penn state in any
of the interviews after the psu concert? i vaguely remember someone
talking about something with the y100 interview....if anyone could
please help me out with this, it would be very much appreciated...it's
very important that i find this out. :)

thanks in advance,
feather

p.s. and for all those who will be getting a boot from me, please be
patient, i have finals this week, but will be getting right on it next
week.
--

++**++**++**++**++**++**++**++**++**++**++**++**++**++
heather solimini (feather)
hxs171@psu.edu
lotsa stuff at http://www.personal.psu.edu/hxs171
irc: bluegirl
"i'm gonna clear my head, i'm gonna drink that sun, i'm gonna
love you good and strong while our love is good and young..."
--emily saliers
!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@!@

hey everybody -

kristen hall has asked me to let you know that she is playing at genghis
cohen in l.a. on saturday, may 10th at 9:00pm.
i'm
sure a lot of you are familiar with kristen from her performances with indigo
girls and her cd's on daemon and high street. but, for those of you who are
not, i guarantee you will enjoy this show!
email me if you need any further info.

donna

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 16:35:25 -0400
reply-to: leann black <l.black@crumalba.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: leann black <l.black@crumalba.com>
subject: need ig sounds
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i am in need of some sound clips of the girls - particularly "thanks
ya'll". lemme know if you can help. i have a mac, but i also have a
sound converter program so most formats are ok. thanks.
leann

according to russell carter management, ig are to play the lf dates from
august 5th thru august 29th. so far, lf has announced dates during that
time frame in the following cities/venues:

aug 6th  nashville / starwood amp
aug 7th  cincinnati / riverbend
aug 8th  indianapolis / deercreek
aug 9th  tinley park / world music
aug10th columbus / polaris
aug12th  pittsburgh / starlake
aug13th  scranton / montage mountain
aug 19th milwaukee / marcus amp
aug20th  shakopee, mn / canterbury park
------------------------------------------

so since the ig's will be in indiana, chicago and wisconsin for lillith fair,
does that mean they're not going to have any concerts alone in the area? say
it isn't so??!!!!

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 16:05:47 -0500
reply-to: bassmandan@box100.com
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: dan perkins <bassmandan@box100.com>
subject: re: ellen (nigc)
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well, i just had to add my $.03 worth. i saw ellen last night and quite
frankly i loved the show. it brought tears to my eyes and a cheer from
my mouth. sure they wrapped everything up nice and neat in 22 minutes.
and that is absolutely not real. but, after all, this is just a
television show, and while we may expect former vice president dan
quayle to confuse television characters with real life, the rest of us
should know better!

seriously though, i am just grateful and ecstatic that ellen degeneres
had the courage to do what she did and that abc stood by her. as far as
stereotypes, sitcoms have always used generalized characters. i think
that by generalizing characters and their actions/reactions the writers
can create a character/situation that more viewers will be able to
identify with. perhaps the last two coming out episodes do not
necessarily reflect the "gay/lesbian" lifestyle, as someone commented,
but i have yet to see a sitcom that really portrayed a real "life
style". i mean does home improvement accurately depict the "cable tv
host lifestyle"? i think not. in reality jill would have dumped that
moron years ago! did giligans island acurately portray the "stranded on
a desert isle" lifestyle? not! hey, they would have gotten of that
damned island in 7 months had the others simply killed gilligan in his
sleep! ok, i'm getting silly here. my point, and i do have one, (sorry i
couldn't resist) is that ellen is a ficticious 1/2 hour television
comedy, trying to deal with something that it takes some real people 30
or 40 years ((or never) to deal with. perhaps those who have already
dealt with a similar instance in their own lives would like for the show
to be more "realistic", but my hope is that the show is reaching those
who haven't dealt with the issues surronding homosexuality, and that it
is teaching them something about the issues in a way that they can
understand and deal with.

perhaps her father walking out of the restaruant was predictable, but i
would wager that a similar occurance has happened to more than 1 person
coming out to their parents. i think overall ellen has handled this
issue in a way that is the least threatening to those who are
unaccostomed to dealing with the issues involved, while still giving all
of us something to consider.

i guess overall i just keep remember that this is just a sitcom. it's
not a documentary or a movie, or an hour long drama or night time soap.
it's just a sitcom. a sitcom trying to handle a complex and emotionally
charged issue, and imho doing it very well.

personally i believe that after a couple of episodes of featuring ellen
morgan's trials and tribulations over coming out, the show will return
to being your general sitcom and her sexuality will be no more an issue
than any other television character's sexuality.

of course i could be wrong and next week tune in and it will just be
ellen standing there saying "these two lesbians walk into a bar..."

--
peace,

dan perkins
tour guide to the obvious,
post-episodic clairvoyant,
bassist/singer/songwriter.

"and at last the world was finally set free,
the animals all hung out and interacted fretlessly
and the world began to vibrate with such a deep tonality
the day the bass players took over the world."
-emily kaitz

hey kids... i realize that thislist has been lilith faired to death,
but does anyone have a complete list of the lineup? i'm thinkin
i'll do the nashville date.... thanks in advance! =o)

cindy

**************************************************************************************************************************

i'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
-bailey howe library, university of vermont. burlington, vermont.
(note to self: cancel frontal lobotomy)

fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
-the bayou, baton rouge, louisiana.

http://www.geocities.com/collegepark/quad/8541/poptartcindy.html
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 14:02:02 -0700
reply-to: sue and kathy <kazoo@earthling.net>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: sue and kathy <kazoo@earthling.net>
subject: the glory of ellen! (nigc)
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i am going to delurk here for a moment.  i believe that ellen did a fine
job with both of the episodes so far.  tv sitcoms only give you a half
hour.  i admire ellen for taking on the monumental task she has in this
framework.

when i came out to my parents, i also heard all the exact same questions
and concerns.  i told them at a dinner, my 23rd birthday dinner.  we ate
a large dinner, and then they pretty much asked me if there was any
romantic interest in my life.  we had been discussing my sister living
with her boyfriend and it was a natural segue. i told them i was gay,and
while answering their questions and assuaging their fears, proceeded to
eat 1/4 of a large chiffon cake with ice cream and strawberries.  midway
a guy i used to date called.  i arranged to have a drink with him after
dinner, and got off the phone to my mother's question of "what about
charlie, he's a nice boy?".  i explained how he had been supportive of my
decision.  my parents reassured me they loved me and i went off to have a
drink with charlie.  i must have been in a daze, cause at the bar, i ate
almost all of a dinner size appetizer before i realized that i had been
eating non-stop for about 3 hours! :-)

most of my coming out experiences have been good.  i feel fortunate for
that.  i truly feel that what ellen is doing is the closest i will ever
come to seeing my life on tv.  that is very moving to me.  i came out
about 19 years ago and have seen quite a bit of change.  19 years ago, i
could not have even imagined that there would be such a show as ellen has
done.  i bet that, at one time, ellen never would have imagined herself
there either.  it was a different world.  we can be critical of the way
things are done, but i think that we need to recognize the ground that
has been taken.  there would not be such a backlash from the right if
there had not been so much ground that has been taken.

maybe ellen is done from a woman's viewpoint about what is important.
that might not appeal to some people (read some men). too bad. change
the channel.

not many people would put their career on the line for their beliefs. i
applaud ellen and am proud of her.

i am not sorry to use bandwidth.  i get tired of reading whining like
drew's though.  i also get tired of people groveling and apologizing when
they write something that is important to them.  it wastes more bandwidth
to grovel than to just get on with it.  its like saying i apologize for
existing.  i know that this the ig list, and the content should stay
focused there, but sometimes we just need to be human and communicate at
that level.

my 2 pfennige, sue

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 15:28:43 -0700
reply-to: "amy j. putnam" <pegasus@crl.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "amy j. putnam" <pegasus@crl.com>
subject: re: the demise of ellen (nigc)
x-to: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
in-reply-to: <pine.ult.3.95.970508134102.9104a-100000@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
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> >
> what kind of comment is that?! let's say that i said:
> "let me guess, amy... you're overweight."
> is that fair? just because you might be gay does not mean that you have
> access to secrets that straights don't. geez.

um, huh?  i have no idea where this totally random comment comes from.
my comment is a response to the idea that you seemed to think that
dad's walking out on ellen was not a realisitc occurence.  i doubt you'll
ever hear a story about dad walking out on a child who annoucnes
s/he is striaght.  like joni said, if you ar going to make an analogy,
try to keep to something pertinent to the discussion at hand.

as for secrets, it's a "secret" if someone else doesnt know about it.
a lot of straights would be clueless about signals that a lot of
gays use to find each other. so, yeah, my being a lesbian does
mean that there would be times when i would pick up on something which
might let me id anotehr gay peson, a clue which many straights wouldnt
see. no, there is so secret decoder ring. in somw ways, it's called
survival, being able to find others like us so we feel less isolated.
this sort of thing is also affectionately known as gaydar.

> in fact, i would think that our homosexual community would be most vocal
> about this. sure, it is truly great that she came out on public tv, but
> why not make her deal with situations that are less stereotypical and more
> realistic so that the world at large can see g/l as more than 2
> dimenensional cutouts?

what tv character *isnt* a 2 dimensional cut out?  we have to start
somewhere and have a gay presence on tv so that we are at least seen
as being real.  i dont see any male actors stepping up to the plate.
at least *someone* did.  what the gay community needs to be vocal about\
is to remind people that ellen is but one example of life as a gay
person, jsut as "mad about you" is one example of straight people.  we
dont ask "mad about you" to represent all straights, and likewiuse we
cannot expect ellen to be "everything" to gays.

> i think that is a good goal, albeit a lofty one for a measley sitcom. i
> also don't think that ellen's show will work toward those goals.

there have been all of 2 episodes directly dealing with this topic.
i thnk it;s a bit hasty to project what will happen on the show.

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 15:47:00 -0700
reply-to: dave mangot <mangot@netcom.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: dave mangot <mangot@netcom.com>
subject: nigc - ellen/lesbian/straight
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(kinda long)

ok.

there is just wayyyyy to much flame bait out here now.

whoever said gay people have access to "secrets" that other
people don't is a, well this is a family mail list right?

by perpetuating such ridiculous comments you are totally
going against the whole point made that gay people live
"normal" lives just like everyone else.  they go to
work, they come home, they watch tv, and hopefully if
hi wakes up, will be able to marry too.  in fact, to
claim to be part of some "secret" organization you
further divide yourself from the society that is
hopefully finally learning to not be such retards
when it comes to a person's sexuality.  this is
totally the point of ellen's toaster joke.  there
is no secret society!!!!  i can see it now,
"i'm a card carrying..."

whomever made the point about the difference being
"experience", kudos, kudos, kudos.

gay people experience different things in bed
than straight people. big f deal. straight
people experience different things than other
straight people depending on who they're with.
if this is a revalation to anyone...

everyone is different.  (duh!)  i like motorcycles.
i don't stand around telling people "it's a motorcycle
thing, you car people wouldn't understand"  some
like motss, some like motos.  by creating "secretive"
(which some would interpret as elitist, see "fraternity")
distinctions between the two, you only widen the
gap.

double kudos, to the point made that we're talking
about a sitcom here, not a documentary or (and i
use this term loosely) a news program.

flame off.

let me guess, i'm (insert here), right?

-dave

i was wondering if anyone has any rare boots that i could send you blank tapes
for.  i'd love to trade, but i don't have much.  please mail me privately and
let me know if we could work something out!  thanks very much!
                                -bethany
                                426roy@msn,com

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 15:57:37 -0700
reply-to: bonster@bp05.u.washington.edu
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from: bonster@bp05.u.washington.edu
subject: i need a date...
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no, not *that* kind of a date!

in my futile attempt to organize my microcosm (the entire world will be my
next project), i noticed that one of my boots lacks a date:

title:
wrek

set list:
don't give up on me baby
walk away
thin line
mona lisas and mad hatters
half moon cafe
nashville
untitled song
welcome me
love of the common people
ballad of squeaky frome

1. is this the proper set list? the sound quality varies from song to song,
so i wasn't sure.
2. does anyone have the proper date for this?

sweaty and confused (because my thermometer reads 80 which is just a bit too
warm for me!),

-bon

please direct replies to me and not the list :)

bonster@u.washington.edu

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 18:14:38 -0500
reply-to: cheryl thiede <cheryl@discover-net.net>
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from: cheryl thiede <cheryl@discover-net.net>
subject: oo la la la
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hey everyone!

i'm delurking for the second time in 2 days to share a joyous moment with
you!  i know to some, hearing indigo girls on the radio is no big deal...but
for us here in nowhere, wisconsin, it never happens!  until today that is!
i went into a coworker's office to ask her a question and she had a top 40
radio station on (i know you can guess what's coming, but i'm going to say
it anyway!) and i heard "...road block trippin' in the middle of the night
up in gainesville town..." and almost started crying! i had to sit down!  i
then called the radio station to thank them for playing soy, and the dj said
"yea that's a great song, isn't it?  everyone at the radio station loves it.
i don't think i've ever played indigo girls before."  and i replied, "no,
you certainly haven't!"   anyway!  thanks for listening - i know you can all
relate to my excitement about this momentous occasion in nw wisconsin history!

cheryl
cheryl@discover-net.net

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 20:29:45 -0400
reply-to: rubyfruit <mrjones@goucher.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: rubyfruit <mrjones@goucher.edu>
subject: all the ellen posts and some choice words about sexuality (nigc)
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i've been reading through the posts regarding ellen last night and i came
across a comment from drew that i feel the need to comment on. i odn't
want to harp, but i feel you miss what is at the heart of sexuality.
drew said:

my sexuality has precious little to do with my observations.

now, this may sound horrible, but in saying this i must assume that you
are staright.  and i don't say this to be condescending or stereotypical
in any way.  it is just that when you are queer and you live in a
heterosexist society such as this one, your sexuality becomes thelens
through which you see the world.  if your sexuality has little to do with
your observations it is probably because you are not forced to
acknowledge it.  when i look around at magazine ads, at movies, and even
at tv i do not see myself reflected in popular culture.  all over i see
men and women holding hands and kissing, i see marriage for straights
only, even in lipstick commercials the models say, "won't kiss off on
him."  if i were straight i would probably never notice this, but after
awhile i begin to feel invisible.  it's like i don't even exist.  no,
gays don't have access to secrets, but our difference had led us through
moments straights will never know.

second, and still related, being straight one never has to face the fact
that they are "different", one is never called "perverted" or
"disgusting" just for being in love.  as soon as a person comes out they
cease to be a person in the eyes of society, and many times in the eyes
of their family and friends as well.  they become the label "gay", just a
ellen has become to many people, "the lesbian".  she is much more than
that, but people are fascinated as one person saidin a post, "to see what
the lesbian is up to."  if she's reading a book they think, "she chose
that book because she is a lesbian", if she is wearing boots it is
"because she is a lesbian."  now, i'm not saying that everyone feels this
way,  but that is how the greater whole of society views us queers, i
know, i've experienced it.

-maurissa

*******************************************************************
* "not content to bow and bend to the whims of culture they swoop *
* like vultures eating us away to our extinction"                 *
*                                     -emily sailers              *
*                                                                 *
*"the only queer people are the ones who don't love anybody."     *
*                                                 -rita mae brown *
*                                                                 *
* "to be with those i like is enough"                             *
*                           -walt whitman                         *
*                                                                 *
* "two women do not judge each other.  they form an alliance."    *
*                                                      -anais nin *
*******************************************************************

with just two hours left to go in the t.j. martell auction,
do i hear $3,300?

peace,
fran e.

i stoped by newbury comics in the mit student center today.

shaming of the sun is the nunber one disc in their best sellers
selections for the last week.

but the good news doesn't end there. you see, its also number 11. =)
it seems they are registering the sales for the jewel case (#1)
and the "limited edition" digipac (#11) seperately....

the joy of computers ;)

chris

marty debergi: "why don't you combine #1 and #11 and just make #1 larger?"
nigel tuffnel: "but this one goes to 1 and 11...."

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=========================================================================
date: fri, 9 may 1997 01:47:43 gmt
reply-to: lost kitty <noone@home.org>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: lost kitty <noone@home.org>
subject: re: imaginary flames
x-cc: vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu
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on thu, 8 may 1997 10:22:12 -0400, you wrote:
> this list takes its community spirit very seriously.  it is
>in many ways a very homogeneous bunch, often very defensive about
>differences in opinions or personalities.  thus, anything but shiny happy
>people (obatlreference) tend to rock the boat, even while the waters are
>generally calm.
>
there is no "community spirit" here.  i've been reading the list for
some time the prevailing spirit seems to be based on control. people
are simply not allowed to have a dissenting opinion. its interesting
that this list has around 1000 subscribers but the "approved" subjects
and attitudes seem to be closely monitored by what i characterize as a
small group of  immature mili-dykes.  (note to all immature militant
dykes-i will simply delete flames and not respond). we're all here
because we like the ig but god help the poor sob that unknowingly
writes something politically incorrect.

hey y'all! someone i know backed out on the 5/23 chastain show so i've got a
ticket available. $26.00 for it. if interested let me know. they're lawn
seats, g2. first person gets it.

jendy
===========================================================================
"seems easier to push than to let go and trust."
-emily saliers

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 20:05:42 -0500
reply-to: tracy - back home with her mountain <trace@wolfenet.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: tracy - back home with her mountain <trace@wolfenet.com>
subject: seattle top ten albums
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#1 this week: indigo girls - "shaming of the sun"
(nationally #7)

as listed on d3 of the seattle times this evening. can i hear a "yuh
huh!!" from the pnwers? we rock.

tracy - who cannot stop listening to "shed your skin"

well, it's time to sign off of the list for the summer. i just don't have
time to read all the msgs. maybe if things slow down i'll rejoin. if not,
see you next fall. and will someone please email me and let me know what
happens with emily's bday present? thanks a bunch! i'll miss y'all :)
julie

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 11:16:56 +0800
reply-to: siti <skunky@post1.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: siti <skunky@post1.com>
subject: hte cd enquiry
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 boundary="----=_nextpart_000_01bc5c6a.812c8ac0"
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this is a multi-part message in mime format.

------=_nextpart_000_01bc5c6a.812c8ac0
content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

hi everyone..just wanted to ask abt the hte cd.

someone posted that the comment "all our relations" from the sots cd is
based on the song in hte..and anyway, i've tried looking for the cd but i
can't find it anyway....so could someone just let me know a bit more abt
the cd, like it's full title and release date and whatever else so i can
put an order for it in tower records or hmv...thanks a lot...please e-mail
me privately..

siti
------=_nextpart_000_01bc5c6a.812c8ac0
content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body bgcolor=3d"#ffffff">hi everyone..just wanted to ask =
abt the hte cd. someone posted that the comment "all our =
relations" from the sots cd is based on the song in hte..and =
anyway, i've tried looking for the cd but i can't find it anyway....so =
could someone just let me know a bit more abt the cd, like it's full =
title and release date and whatever else so i can put an order for it in =
tower records or hmv...thanks a lot...please e-mail me =
privately.. siti
</body></html>
------=_nextpart_000_01bc5c6a.812c8ac0--

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 23:29:06 -0400
reply-to: audrey beth stein <abstein@force.stwing.upenn.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: audrey beth stein <abstein@force.stwing.upenn.edu>
subject: color you thanks, and tour dates, and web stuff
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just wanted to thank everyone who responded to my crayola post earlier
today and helped me find a hex color for indigo.  the color me indigo logo
now has color!  i also lightened the background a bit, so if you're bored
take a look and tell me if it works for you or not.  eventually i hope to
find (or make) a muted grey pattern for it, but nothing i've seen so far
is quite muted enough for my taste.  i also expect to add an "open in
new window" option for *all* external links within the next month or
two.

the site has gotten over 2000 hits since early march...i'm assuming most
of them are from all of you and i wanted to say thanks.  it's nice to
know that one of my creations is actually useful and helpful for other
people.  if there's anything you'd like to see added or expanded or
changed, or any sites which you think should be featured, please let me
know.  and i know some of you listees have web sites which aren't
listed--your site does not have to have igc to be included, so if you
want in just take a look at the "kind friends" section for a model and
send me your url, name, email addy, nickname (if any), and a description
(optional), and i'll add you.

i found some pretty neat pages about colors and backgrounds in my quest
today--eventually i'll put some annotated links up on my site but you can
get to most of them through tina's (linked from the "kind friends" section
of color me indigo).

there have been a bunch of posts lately asking about tour dates...the list
on the sony/epic ig site is the most official, but the list in deb
reiser's shaming of the sun tour archives (linked from the "mapping"
section of color me indigo) includes sale dates, in addition to being
quite comprehensive and having a much funkier design.

take care,
audrey

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
% color me indigo http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~abstein/colormeindigo %
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"hey middle ground a place between up and down she could be safe and sound
oh to know middle ground" --mary chapin carpenter

"living on nothing but a young girl's dreams" --mary chapin carpenter

"oh i knew back then it was a calling that said if joy then pain the
sound of the voice these years later is still the same.....begin my
studies with this paper and this pencil and i'm working through the
grammar of my fears mercy what i won't give to have the things that mean
the most not to mean the things i miss unforgiving the choice still is
the language or the kiss." --emily saliers

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 20:54:08 -0700
reply-to: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
subject: shed your skin
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hey all...
i'm back online again... finally...
have i missed much? a lot o' flamage i hear:) ah well...
so are we discussing sotw's??? if we are... my favorite so far on the new cd
is sys... the power in the music + amy's voice just really grab me... burn
all the letters gets me too, but not by the base of my spine for a good
delicious shake, the way sys does:)
peace all, kim ( frustrated goddess )( who caint spell werth beens )
*********************************************************
with every lesson learned a line upon your beautiful face,
we'll amuse ourselves one day with these memories we'll
trace... emily saliers
**********************************************************

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 00:14:09 -0400
reply-to: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: drew vogel <vogelap@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
subject: re: all the ellen posts and some choice words about sexuality
 (nigc)
x-to: rubyfruit <mrjones@goucher.edu>
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on thu, 8 may 1997, rubyfruit wrote:

maurissa:

> i've been reading through the posts regarding ellen last night and i came
> across a comment from drew that i feel the need to comment on.  i odn't
> want to harp, but i feel you miss what is at the heart of sexuality.
> drew said:
>
> my sexuality has precious little to do with my observations.
>
> now, this may sound horrible, but in saying this i must assume that you
> are staright.  and i don't say this to be condescending or stereotypical
> in any way.  it is just that when you are queer and you live in a
> heterosexist society such as this one, your sexuality becomes thelens
> through which you see the world.
(snip)
>
wow... what is the old saying about "assuming"... when you assume you make
an ass out of "u" and "me"? it's in full effect here, maurissa!

i don't believe, nor have i ever felt, that my sexuality is the 'lens
through which i see the world', anymore than my decision to be a dog
person is the lens through which i see the world. i see that sort of
mentality as something kinda paranoid, and frankly, comical... have you
ever seen seinfeld with uncle leo? anytime something goes wrong for uncle
leo (his toast is overdone, his pants hemmed too long, etc.) it's due to
anti-semitism. this cracks me up, and seems to me to be the same kind of
logic you're presenting here.

my sexuality is just a _part_ of who i am, and is nowhere near the whole
'lens'. does my sexual preference affect my life
in general? perhaps a little, but not much. when i'm working, i'm not
thinking as a gay male. when i'm biking, playing frisbee, or walking
stanley the wonder dog (tm), it's not as a gay male. i'm just _me_. i'm
quite comfortable with who i am, so i do not feel the need to place my
sexual preference out there as a shield against my other insecurities ("i
didn't get the job because i'm gay" instead of "i blew that interview. i
don't think i'll get the job.")

i once had an employee that was troublesome. he was in my office, and
i told him i thought he was being an asshole. his response? "you're only
saying that because you're white and i'm black." my response to that? i
said, "no, race has nothing to do with it. the fact that you're being an
asshole is the the basis for the comment." i feel that if people are
comfortable with who/what they are, they don't need to carry a banner to
hide behind. perhaps you don't think that way -- it's cool. respect that
other people don't think as you do.

> second, and still related, being straight one never has to face the fact
> that they are "different", one is never called "perverted" or
> "disgusting" just for being in love.  as soon as a person comes out they
> cease to be a person in the eyes of society, and many times in the eyes
> of their family and friends as well.  they become the label "gay", just a
> ellen has become to many people, "the lesbian".  she is much more than
> that, but people are fascinated as one person saidin a post, "to see what
> the lesbian is up to."  if she's reading a book they think, "she chose
> that book because she is a lesbian", if she is wearing boots it is
> "because she is a lesbian."  now, i'm not saying that everyone feels this
> way,  but that is how the greater whole of society views us queers, i
> know, i've experienced it.
>
i, too, used to think that straights had it much easier that i do, but
have since arrived at a different place -- we all have our challenges,
straight, gay, black, white, whatever. each person's life is hard. the
fact that her life is hard in a different way than your life is
immaterial. it's still hard.

rather than adopting a "poor pitiful me" attitude, i go out and each and
every day define for people what it is to be a hardworking, thoughtful,
outspoken, person. i do what i can, and people take away what they can.
that's what i can do. i will not be complacent. (hi lorinda!)

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 00:29:10 -0400
reply-to: lisa tatonetti <tatonetti.2@osu.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: lisa tatonetti <tatonetti.2@osu.edu>
subject: nec (no ellen content :-)
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hey all,
this is not in order, but...1)in sb amy sounds a lot like the guy from
midnight oil when she sings "zapata reading poetry in his grave" and "well
they need more." 2)how do you interpret "oh how the mighty fall" in dgtgag?
d'ya think amy's "the mighty" or the person the song's written to? i'm
fairly obsessed w/this song, as i have been hanging out in withoutyouness
(withoutyouland?)for a while. but now that there's new ig music, "it's alright."

...which reminds me of the first time i saw the girls on the ig tour in 89.
i had just gone through a rough breakup, singing prince of darkness and
blood and fire all the way. the girls played club nu (small club in miami,
fl) and afterwards i was trying to tell emily how much their music had
helped me. i was mumbling something inarticulate about how they write it
for one reason, but then it goes out and becomes the soundtrack to other
people's lives. i started to cry, and she started to cry, and she hugged me
(a real hug, not one of those little "pat, pat, please stop now" hugs) and
asked if "it's alright now." she pulled amy over, and basically they were,
and of course, are, some of the warmest people i've ever encountered. :-) my
ig flashback of the day.
peace,
lisa

"the best thing you've ever done for me is to help me take my life less
seriously, it's only life afterall." --emily saliers

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 21:41:42 -0700
reply-to: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
subject: re: all the ellen posts and some choice words about sexuality
 (nigc)
mime-version: 1.0
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at 12:14 am 5/9/97 -0400, drew wrote:

>i don't believe, nor have i ever felt, that my sexuality is the 'lens
>through which i see the world', anymore than my decision to be a dog
>person is the lens through which i see the world.
of course, the world doesn't look at you, drew the "dog person" and make
assumptions about you; like you *must* be perverted or degenerate etc etc
etc, because you're a "dog person". your choice of dog over cat ( or horse
etc etc etc ) is one that is accepted. no one asks you to defend that
choice,; it is an accepted difference or preference. however, the world
*does* view gay persons in a very differnt light, thereby making most of us
feel a need to defend + define ourselves through our sexuality. we are not
allowed to "just be" as our heterosexual counterparts are free to do. it
would be wonderful to feel as free as you seem to feel, and i would gladly
live that way... but the rest of the world just aint ready to let us... they
view us through a certain "lens"... and so we can't feel that our choice of
female over male or visa versa is a given... accepted... a minor detail: we
have it shoved in our face as something that is *so* differnt; and therefor
we too are forced to look at the world around us through the lens of our
sexuality; reminded that we are differnt, and that others view us as such...
sigh...
peace + pondering... kim
*********************************************************
with every lesson learned a line upon your beautiful face,
we'll amuse ourselves one day with these memories we'll
trace... emily saliers
**********************************************************

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=========================================================================
date: thu, 8 may 1997 21:35:46 -0700
reply-to: machado <lorene@flylive.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: machado <lorene@flylive.com>
subject: aiken & bucklew cyber-tour (nigc)
mime-version: 1.0
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howdy,

the caroline aiken/wendy bucklew cyber-tour is up and running.  we are
cracking up several times a day at the captions that are coming in.  if you
haven't already played along, please do so.  the site is here:
http://www.flylive.com/flylive/access.html

in addition to the cds that we're giving away, we also have some signed
posters and other stuff that we're gonna send out. but you gotta send in a
caption to qualify.

we'll be posting pictures until monday, may 12th. come on down...

machado entertainment, management and promotion
p.o. box 39952, los angeles, ca  90039, e-mail:  lorene@flylive.com
phone:  (818) 787-2468, fax:  (818) 787-3031, alpha pager:  (800) 800-9724
caroline aiken website:  http://www.hidwater.com/aiken/
wendy bucklew website:  http://www.hidwater.com/wendy/

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 00:44:53 -400
reply-to: "mail from cindy (lucky you!)" <gossett@centre.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "mail from cindy (lucky you!)" <gossett@centre.edu>
organization: centre college
subject: nigc at all!! nashville!

hey, i'm really sorry to waste space on y'all, but i'm in need of
some help.... does anyone on this list live in or near nashville?  i
really need to talk with someone close to there.  thanks so much!!
again, i'm  sorry to waste space and take up room in your mailbox!  =o)

cindy

**************************************************************************************************************************

i'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
-bailey howe library, university of vermont. burlington, vermont.
(note to self: cancel frontal lobotomy)

fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
-the bayou, baton rouge, louisiana.

http://www.geocities.com/collegepark/quad/8541/poptartcindy.html
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 01:08:28 -0400
reply-to: joanie <edwina@jax-inter.net>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: joanie <edwina@jax-inter.net>
subject: chastain ticket (nec) (i like that ;))
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hi y'all! haven't had any takers for the friday show ticket i've got. $20
and it's yours. we're a fun bunch! you can hang with us! let me know!

jendy
===========================================================================
"seems easier to push than to let go and trust."
-emily saliers

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 01:15:39 edt
reply-to: "gibson, shondolyn j." <x0sgibs@music.stlawu.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "gibson, shondolyn j." <x0sgibs@music.stlawu.edu>
subject: help nigc
in-reply-to: in reply to your message of fri, 09 may 1997 01:06:01 edt

i need help. please help me to fight the racist homophobic bastards on'
the net. they are spreading lies and they need to be stopped.

little prediction:

its alright will be the second single released and will be a big hit..biggest
yet

ye olde ig swami

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 01:04:34 -0500
reply-to: ryan <ryan@ou.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: ryan <ryan@ou.edu>
subject: it's been real.
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well,
i guess i'm a lurker most of the time and when i do write, i'm usually
fairly concise, so this letter will be uncharacteristic of me.  however,
since it is gonna be my last post, temporarily i hope (finals are a drag),
i'm gonna make the most of it.  first and foremost, i wanna say you people
are probably the coolest collection of people i have ever come across (at
least when you stay on the subject).  i have truly enjoyed reading most of
the posts and seeing the differences that abound when you group 1000+
people on to a list like this.  thank you to everyone who took pity on a
newbie with nothing to trade and sent me bootlegs.  a mighty thanks goes
out to all the galveston party-people (da chickenman rules!) who rocked the
beach hiz-ouse!!  also, i just have to say thanks to deb reiser for her
badass web page which i visit at least ten times a day to see if maybe
she's found out when the dallas tickets go on sale :)
now i'm just gonna throw in my $.02 about the whole ellen thing that's
raging here now.  two words--private email.  the last few posts responding
to drew have been addressing drew.  why are they coming to the list?  the
only reason i can think of is that people responding are looking for a
little self-glorification, or maybe a few internet high-fives.  it's
ridiculous and futile.  in all of drew's posts i have not seen anything
that would make me think that anyone here is going to change his mind.  he
has his opinion, i have my opinion (not on this subject, i haven't watched
ellen in about a year--aaaahhh, have i sinned?!?), everyone has their own
opinion.  if you guys want to explain to drew how your sexuality is a
"lens" do it without involving everyone on the list.  that's just plain
uncool, but that's my opinion :)
well that's all i have to say about that.  if any of you folks are going to
be at the may 30 philly show or planning to be at the dallas show drop me a
line (as long as it is before about 4 pm tomorrow i should get it) maybe we
can get together.  for everyone i'm making boots for (taurus branch of the
unh boot) i will have those out to you.  i just got my copy yesterday so i
won't be able to start sending until next week, plus my recording device
has been packed up and sits in tulsa right now so...just so you know.
well, i guess that's it.  take it easy everyone and i hope to see those of
you i've met before again and the rest of you for the first time.
just remember no matter what happens: it's alright.
keep it groovy,
ryan

i don't want to be normal.

i want to be ...... fabulous !

(and have the same rights as everyone else)

"we are normal and we want our freedom."
(bonzo dog band)
" glamour first, glamour last, glamour ... .always !"
(doris fish)
"you have to fight for your right to be queer."
(mistress formika)

maybe they don't usually say them in their songs, but i know that
i've heard them say expletives in concert when they've messed
up, and then the audience usually cracks up.  (hey, lots of folks
think it's funny when emily says, "oh s#%t.")  i'm pretty much
immune to being offended by hearing such words, not that i'm
defending their common use, but living near boston can have
that effect on you.  to think i was in junior high before i dared to
say "shut up"!  (ah, the sweet innocence of growing up in new
hampshire in the '70's).

warning: if the f-word offends you, don't ever listen to ani difranco. ;)

peace,
fran e.

on wed, 7 may 1997 kira stackhouse <crandigo1@aol.com> writes:
>
>hello,
> i bought sots when it came out last tues. i love every song on it,
but
>especially gotm and batl. well after i heard soy, i was really
>disappointed. not in the song, don't get me wrong, but because of the
fact
>that amy said the fbomb. aghh. i couldn't believe she said it. it
comes to
>my surprise that she said it because the girls don't usually say curse
words
>in their songs. it fits the song perfectly but i don't understand why
she
>couldn've chosen another word. i don't know what you all think, but to
me it
>really disturbs me. the song is great though it's probably one of the
best
>amy songs out there. well have fun all you indifans.
>
>kira.

oh yippee...i finally have sots...i was so happy when i got home
yesterday and found a big package from my friend and deeply nestled
inside, protected by tonnes of padding was my very own ig
cd...ooohh...i rushed up stairs to put it on my stereo and then payed
it real loud (much to the disgust of my housemate who was engrossed
in deep space nine). so i celebrated the evening with some scrumpy!
and its now the next day and i'm still on cloud 9...i have a copy on
tape now so that i can listen to it during the day. just have to say
the girls are sounding _and_ looking absolutely superb :)
back to listening...i'm acquiring permanent dimples on my cheeks from
grinning so much...
love helene
favorites so far...would it be too excessive to type out the entire
cd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i apologize in advance for the length and for adding another ellen post to
the ig list. but i had to.

dave wrote:

>>whoever said gay people have access to "secrets" that other
people don't is a, well this is a family mail list right?
by perpetuating such ridiculous comments you are totally
going against the whole point made that gay people live
"normal" lives just like everyone else.  they go to
work, they come home, they watch tv, and hopefully if
hi wakes up, will be able to marry too.  in fact, to
claim to be part of some "secret" organization you
further divide yourself from the society that is
hopefully finally learning to not be such retards
when it comes to a person's sexuality.  this is
totally the point of ellen's toaster joke.  there
is no secret society!!!!  i can see it now,
"i'm a card carrying..."
>>

you're right, that is the point of toaster oven joke --- however, i don't
agree with much of the rest of what you said. no, there isn't a secret
decoder ring or a card to carry (tho i wouldn't mind). but there are
experiences-- that have nothing to do with the bedroom, by the way -- and
humor and a culture that gay people share. how many straight people do you
think got ellen's joke about "personal best?" or got the joke about peter's
traumatic coming out before kindergarten....that was hilarious. another thing
is that straights don't come out as straight, and no matter how open minded
you are you can't ever understand what that is like, anymore than i could
understand what being a man is like or being straight is like, tho i
pretended to be that for 30 years.

the point is that 98 percent of the mass media out there does not reflect my
life back to me. imagine going through your whole life hardly ever seeing a
positive straight person or relationship on tv or in a movie. imagine
everyone assuming you were gay when they first met you....because that was
the norm and expected...imagine having to make split second decisions for the
rest of your life whether to let that erroneous assumption stand and pay the
price the lie exacts on your psyche or to come out and risk rejection.

then imagine the first straight lead character coming out on tv one
night...and someone as mainstream as oprah taking part and saying good for
you, youre straight....why even your mother loves oprah and maybe now she'll
think twice about what she thinks about straight people.

that's what ellen's act of courage is all about. i've sat thru years of
straight sitcoms, loved em all from i love lucy to friends. but i tell you,
it's nice to see my life for once.

finally, i do live a normal life...i go to work. i come home. i have sunday
barbecues. but my life is different from a straight person's life. not
better. certainly not worse. but different. that's why ellen is important,
too. she's saying it's different but not alien, not perverse. it's normal but
different.

a lot of years ago, i was in a tv theory and criticism class in college.
there was a great quote in our text book: ''if it's on tv it's real. and if
it's not on tv it's not real.''

ultimately ellen makes us all a little more real in the collective american
psyche. different. but real. and she's doing a pretty good job so far.

this is not a flame, by the way. just my perspective.

now i gotta listen to the girls and polish my collection of toaster ovens.

peace.

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=========================================================================
date: fri, 9 may 1997 16:15:14 +-800
reply-to: "anna p. hidalgo" <anna@fillib.org.ph>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "anna p. hidalgo" <anna@fillib.org.ph>
subject: (nigc) legal question
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hello everyone!

my apologies for the total nigc of this post ... there is a situation i'm dealing with right now, and i was wondering if the lawyers and/or law students out there could help me with a question i have. it has to do with dual citizenship -- could anyone tell me what the specific laws/rules are in the united states regarding people holding passports from more than one country? until what age can a person be an american *and* another nationality? i would be very grateful for any assistance people could give me on this matter ... thank you!

anna

i have tickets for the ig show on the 25th. can someone please give me
directions from wilmington, nc to chastain and where is a good place to stay
and all that?!?
also, if there are any extra tickets for the 24th i would be way interested
in them...

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 08:40:38 -0400
reply-to: "margaret a. clayton" <maclayto@mtholyoke.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "margaret a. clayton" <maclayto@mtholyoke.edu>
subject: ellen flavored nigc
mime-version: 1.0
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it's like i joined this list to talk about ellen, but different.

margaret

jen kwok you still here sweetie?

sorry everyone else, i need to find her!

xo, susanna

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 09:53:08 -0500
reply-to: karrie the queen of the soapbox <k645501b@edinboro.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: karrie the queen of the soapbox <k645501b@edinboro.edu>
subject: igc that will send the ellen people to the ellen list!! ;)
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hey everyone....

so i was driving in the bronco yesterday, listing to my "best of indigo girls"
mix tape i made mysel, when it occurred to me.  i have an emily side and
an amy side, and i inadvertantly put gotm before power of two.  it seems
that those songs really tell alot of the same story.  i really saw the
connection.

gotm tells about going to places, and doing things just to wild and willful,
and loving while "our love is good and young..." and power of two sings
about getting out of town and spending time with the person you have chosen
to be with. it is kind of interesting that these songs came in reverse
order album wise, but i thought it was kind of interesting.

all i can think, actually, when i hear them, is about my relationship with
my boyfriend.  gotm makes me think about how reckless and wild and "in love"
and infatuated we both were with one another at the beginning of our
relationship, how we would go for days on 2 or 3 hours sleep a night because
we wanted to spend every moment together.  how we would just pack up and
do whatever at a moment's notice.  now, i see our relationship more on
the power of two level.  live you lives, find time for each other when you
can, still be crazy and go when it is convenient.

anyhoo, just thought i would venture the question.....does anyone else see
any "sequel" or commonalities in any other ig songs?

well, off to move my belongings to that apartment over there!! ;)

peace, love and ig-
karrie

ps. tamara, you are a goddess......thanks for the boots!!!!!!!!!!!!

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 09:23:15 -0600
reply-to: deb reiser <debbie@mei.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: deb reiser <debbie@mei.com>
subject: ig edges out jewel in lf line-ups
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the concert gods must have heard me complaining: i just did a quick check
of the lilith fair line-ups and now see that ig have moved up in the
line-up. they have bumped jewel out of the spot prior to sarah taking the
stage (except the scranton line-up still shows them in the #4 spot). i feel
so much better for some reason.

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 09:35:31 -0600
reply-to: deb reiser <debbie@mei.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: deb reiser <debbie@mei.com>
subject: tickets on sale this weekend
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here are the shows that go on sale this weekend thru ticketmaster:

on sale saturday may 10th (all times local):

jul 11-13th seattle / the pier / 9am

aug 6th nashville / lilith fair (lisa loeb, emmylou harris, jewel, ig,
sarah mclachlan) / 10am

aug 12th pittsburgh / lilith fair (line-up not announced but assume ig is
playing) / 10am

aug 13th scranton / lilith fair (shawn colvin, ig, jewel, sheryl crow,
sarah m) / 10am

aug 19th milwaukee / lilith fair (shawin colvin, jewel, ig, sarah m) / noon

deb

>as for secrets, it's a "secret" if someone else doesnt know about it.
> lot of straights would be clueless about signals that a lot of
>gays use to find each other. so, yeah, my being a lesbian does
>mean that there would be times when i would pick up on something which
>might let me id anotehr gay peson, a clue which many straights wouldnt
>see. no, there is so secret decoder ring. in somw ways, it's called
>survival, being able to find others like us so we feel less isolated.
>this sort of thing is also affectionately known as gaydar.

actually, i thought that one of the funniest, best parts of the coming
out episode was the debunking of the whole gaydar myth. "we send out
vibrations...and pick them up on our gaydar." some people (gay or
straight) have it, some people (such as myself) don't...it's like
"woman's intuition"...some people (woman or man) have it...some don't.

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 09:58:40 -0500
reply-to: lisa nordeen <nordeelm@caa.mrs.umn.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: lisa nordeen <nordeelm@caa.mrs.umn.edu>
subject: harmonica...
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is there anyone out there who plays the harmonica and could help me out.
i'm teaching myself and am wondering about some of the songs the girls have
with harmonica in them. anybody figured out the chords or anything like that?

just wondering.

lisa
lisa nordeen
head women's basketball coach
university of minnesota, morris
nordeelm@caa.mrs.umn.edu
(320) 589-6429 (o) (320) 589-4782 (h)

"whatever happens to dreams when they become reality?"
-mary lou lord

according to today's boston globe, shaming of the sun is the
number one selling album in the boston area. =)

shame on you did not make the top 25 list for singles.

-- chris

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 08:05:54 pdt
reply-to: alicia bender <rainbowgirl69@hotmail.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: alicia bender <rainbowgirl69@hotmail.com>
subject: re: crayola trivia, and a question
content-type: text/plain

>i was visiting the crayola site in an attempt to find out the html codes
>for red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and violet.  no such luck
>-- can anyone help me out?  (i'm trying to add a little color to the
>color me indigo logo.)  crayola doesn't even seem to *make* indigo
>crayons...unless anyone can prove me wrong here i think it's about time
>for a protest.  heck, it's not like it's an unusual color -- it's part of
>the friggin rainbow!
>
actually they took it out of the spectrum... it's been roygbv for a
few years now.
-alicia
"all i've learned has been in vain, like water on a stain"
                              -amy ray
"your hatred is rooted in your fear, and your paranoia and
insecurities, well they don't belong here."
                              -amy ray
"i walk like a woman and talk like a man.  i said i am who the
fuck i am..."
                              -melissa ferrick

---------------------------------------------------------
get your *web-based* free email at http://www.hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 10:12:33 -0500
reply-to: lorinda wright <wright@biodec.wustl.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: lorinda wright <wright@biodec.wustl.edu>
subject: re: time to brag...
x-to: heather solimini <sweetjane@geocities.com>
in-reply-to: <336e3309.476f@geocities.com>
mime-version: 1.0
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> listen y'all, i guess i'm really advertising when i say this, but the
> answer to the meaning behind the "115 you are 17" line that everyone is
> racking their brains over is on the psu concert/interview boot. so,
> trade for the boot, and enlighten yourselves...

ok, you've had your fun. you've proved you know something the rest of us
don't. now quit teasing and tell us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i don't have time
to trade for the boot, and i absolutely refuse to wait. this is like one
of those terrible "news promos." you know the ones that say, "something
really exciting happened that you absolutely have to know about...tune in
at 10:00 to hear about it."

tell us!!!!!
please?

folkisgruven,
lorindigo

still driving...
lorinda wright           the trouble in my head is getting closer and closer
washington university     to my legs i've got to walk it out. and the trouble
st. louis, mo             with my heart is that i can't rip it out. and the
                          trouble with myself is that i don't know me.
                                                        -melissa ferrick
                    i will not be complacent

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 11:32:32 edt
reply-to: "christopher m. becker" <cmbecker@space.mit.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "christopher m. becker" <cmbecker@space.mit.edu>
subject: re: imaginary flames
x-to: noone@home.org
in-reply-to: <33768057.359639514@mail.iglou.com>; from "lost kitty" at may 9,
 97 1:47 am

> there is no "community spirit" here. i've been reading the list for
> some time the prevailing spirit seems to be based on control. people
> are simply not allowed to have a dissenting opinion. its interesting
> that this list has around 1000 subscribers but the "approved" subjects
> and attitudes seem to be closely monitored by what i characterize as a
> small group of immature mili-dykes. (note to all immature militant
> dykes-i will simply delete flames and not respond). we're all here
> because we like the ig but god help the poor sob that unknowingly
> writes something politically incorrect.

with all due respect, i disagree.

i don't know how much net experience you have, how many other mailing
lists you are on, but the ig list is truly something special. the
level of mutual support and openess is really unparallelled.

i'm a lot of things that pass for non-pc.  i'm catholic.  i'm
pro-life, yet anti-extremist (which simply pisses _everyone_ off
because i never quite fit into one of their boxes).  i'm fiscally
conservative.  i vote independant with a slight republican leaning.  i
don't think columbus was a saint nor a demon, just a product of his
times *shrug* -- never had a problem. i do it by treating individuals
with respect, and respecting their point of view.  without an
attitude.  most people here do the same.  i get into discussions and
arguements over issues, and take them off the list when the
appropriate time comes, but these are honest disagreements and i pride
myself on not turning a debate into a series of personal
attacks. happily i say that most people here have shown me the same
courtesy.  that's a community -- we can disagree, we can discuss our
disagreements and still be friends at the end of the day. its not a
matter of content, its a matter of attitude.

there are guidelines for posting, but its to keep us on topic -- which
btw is the ig. ;)  sometimes threads pop up that shouldn't be here.
perhaps somthing was once releveant, but imho it no longer is. *shrug*
happens all the time. but its better to let these things die a natural
death than by adding to the noise by bitching about the noise!  that's
a sense of community.  that and knowing that someday _i_ will (yet
again) carry on a point/discussion past its natural life, and these
same folks will be patient with me.  this is part of a community.

we joke, we kid, we tease, we aren't always nice.  we discuss ig and
our lives.  we reach out to friends and groups in need with time,
money and music.  we share a common interest that most outside people
find pathological in intensity (oh mi gawd -- if you add up the
numbers in "1694" and also "117 you are 15" both are divisible by
five!!! [you see, we kid around a lot ;)]).  we make mistakes.  we get
defensive.  we're human.  to me this defines a community.  after all
the only community without conflict i know is the fictional "stepford"
-- and i'd hate to live there! *shiver*

just some things to think about,

chris

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
christopher m. becker                       "trying to read the greek
mit center for space research                 upon the stars...."
cmbecker@space.mit.edu                           -- e. saliers

http://www.mit.edu:8001/people/cmbecker/home.html [my homepage]
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date: fri, 9 may 1997 09:10:07 -0700
reply-to: dave mangot <mangot@netcom.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: dave mangot <mangot@netcom.com>
subject: those chart climbing igs
in-reply-to: <97may8.233051-0400_edt.33695-657+2831@brimstone.netspace.org>
 from "automatic digest processor" at may 8, 97 11:30:24 pm
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according to this morning's san francisco chronicle

sots is the number 3 album in the bay area!

peace,

-dave

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 11:08:50 -0500
reply-to: "jennifer n. loesch" <jloesch@usibr01.usi.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "jennifer n. loesch" <jloesch@usibr01.usi.edu>
subject: 4 sale:4 tix @ chastain5/24
x-to: deb reiser <debbie@mei.com>
in-reply-to: <v01540b1faf98f05e43f6@[151.186.5.88]>
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anybody interested in buying tix for the ig show at chastain on the 24th
should email me at malibu@evansville.net. these are lawn seats and i'm
selling them for $19 each. i wont be able to check my email until sunday
nite so if you're really obsessed you can call me. 812 385 4975
first come. first serve.

yes we are,
jenn & robb

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 09:25:36 -0700
reply-to: jan monforton <jmonfort@vannet.k12.wa.us>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: jan monforton <jmonfort@vannet.k12.wa.us>
subject: re: igc that will send the ellen people to the ellen list!! ;)
in-reply-to: <01iinti0uwnq96wd6t@edinboro.edu>
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yeah, i also thought that gotm was like the sequel to power of two. i
think there are a couple others on sots that go along with previous ig
songs. i don't know if everyone will agree with me, but this is what i
thought.
it's alright = hammer and a nail (happy motivational stuff)
shed your skin + cut it out = touch me fall (dark/"loud" stream of
conciousness)
anyone else have another view?
have an indigo day,
sam (playing hookie 'cuz she has a cold and a project that isn't done)

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 11:31:45 -0500
reply-to: "jennifer n. loesch" <jloesch@usibr01.usi.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "jennifer n. loesch" <jloesch@usibr01.usi.edu>
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i made a mistake. i have tix for the 5/23 show. sorry for the confusion.

jenn

"and its all a lot of oysters but no pearls." adam duritz

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 11:38:51 -0500
reply-to: "jennifer n. loesch" <jloesch@usibr01.usi.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "jennifer n. loesch" <jloesch@usibr01.usi.edu>
subject: re: help nigc
x-to: "gibson, shondolyn j." <x0sgibs@music.stlawu.edu>
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okay, what's up?
jenn

on fri, 9 may 1997, gibson, shondolyn j. wrote:

> i need help. please help me to fight the racist homophobic bastards on'
> the net. they are spreading lies and they need to be stopped.
>
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date: fri, 9 may 1997 11:45:30 -0500
reply-to: "dr. urvashi pitre" <upitre@gamma.is.tcu.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "dr. urvashi pitre" <upitre@gamma.is.tcu.edu>
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i believe that if we all stopped to answer these question before we wrote,
it may cut down on flames and wars

q. am i expressing a personal opinion which is :

1)one of vociferous dissension with what another person said (e. g., i
don't agree with you, you are out to lunch, why would anybody believe
that???)

2) judgmental (e.g., jeez louise these lesbians, damn these straight/gay
men, you must be crazy). if you must be intolerant, how about you chose to
be intolerant of intolerance?

3) sarcastic. while sarcasm between friends is usually okay, when used
between strangers who have nothing but a cyber-relationship, causes lots of
flames.

or am i sharing facts and opinions without criticizing another person's
statement? even facts that are nigc (e.g., taping, booting, web-pages,
other musicians) are more welcome than flames i should think.

we don't have to agree, let's just agree to disagree. how hard can that be?
we have surely all learnt to do that in our personal relationships? how
about we apply it here?

sorry to be preachy but these are my opinions which i have tried to
expressed un-vociferously, non-judgmentally, and non-sarcastically.

urvashi urma@juno.com

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 09:47:52 -0700
reply-to: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
subject: the f-word:-)
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ummm... scuse me if this subject has already been discussed to death, but
i've been off line for over a month and when i got back on line i had 268
digests waiting in my mail box to be downloaded ( oivey! ) needless to say,
my "trash that sucker" finger got a little happy ( not to mention tired )...
anyways... where was i? oh yeah...
have y'all talked about the line in soy where amy says "the only thing that
keeps us distant is that i keep fuckin up"?... if'n you have, i apologize
for this... i just wanted to say that i was dissapointed in amy for the
needless addition of this particular expletive to her lyrics. i am in no way
offended by the word... use it a lot myself, especially when my all too
wicked irish temper takes me over:-)... *but* i'm ticked that i've gotta
censor my music listening now... my ten year old daughter just loves the
girls and sings along with all my stuff, but not this one, baybee, nu uh...
not this song. i am all for freedom of speach etc, but i just don't see why
amy couldn't have said "messin" or something else, just for *me* so's i
could relax:-)... lol...
there... nuff said...
peace all... kim ( goddess of burnt bagels )
*********************************************************
with every lesson learned a line upon your beautiful face,
we'll amuse ourselves one day with these memories we'll
trace... emily saliers
**********************************************************

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 18:01:00 bst
reply-to: rachel sefton-smith <seffy@epic.co.uk>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: rachel sefton-smith <seffy@epic.co.uk>
subject: caramia tab anyone?
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has anyone figured out what em's playing in carmia? what tuning does she use
-there's definitely a dropped e>d in there, but i can't get the rest and
it's driving me nuts! i nearly worked it out last night - easier to hear
the guitar part on the acoustic boot versions... grateful for any help...

have a great weekend everybody :)

seffy

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 13:04:39 -0400
reply-to: deb <indigo@mindspring.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: deb <indigo@mindspring.com>
subject: re: nec (no ellen content :-)
in-reply-to: <199705090429.aaa18849@mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu>
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at 12:29 am 5/9/97 -0400, lisa tatonetti wrote:
1)in sb amy sounds a lot like the guy from
>midnight oil when she sings "zapata reading poetry in his grave" and "well
>they need more."

it's been noted.

2)how do you interpret "oh how the mighty fall" in dgtgag?
>d'ya think amy's "the mighty" or the person the song's written to?

definitely the protagonist (amy?)... she's clearly the one that made a mistake.

--
deb \\ indigo@mindspring.com \\ http://www.mindspring.com/~indigo
____________________________________________________________________________
"i'm a pagan for jesus!" - amy ray

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 13:09:16 -0400
reply-to: deb <indigo@mindspring.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: deb <indigo@mindspring.com>
subject: re: imaginary flames, a small bit about "ellen"
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at 11:32 am 5/9/97 edt, christopher m. becker wrote:
>i'm a lot of things that pass for non-pc.  i'm catholic.  i'm
>pro-life, yet anti-extremist (which simply pisses _everyone_ off
>because i never quite fit into one of their boxes).  i'm fiscally
>conservative.  i vote independant with a slight republican leaning.  i
>don't think columbus was a saint nor a demon, just a product of his
>times *shrug* -- never had a problem.

yes, but did you ever criticize rainy day records on the list before amy
herself made her criticisms public? :)

a small bit about "ellen": the last episode had me in tears because it was
so close to what i experienced with my parents (minus the happy ending).
and they've said that there will be 1 more show dealing specifically with
the coming out (to co-workers), and i'd expect it to be a minor issue after
that. if they really wanted to follow stereotypes, last week ellen
would've gotten drunk, picked up a femme at that lesbian coffee house, and
moved in with her this week. :)

--
deb \\ indigo@mindspring.com \\ http://www.mindspring.com/~indigo
____________________________________________________________________________
"i'm a pagan for jesus!" - amy ray

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 13:07:38 -0400
reply-to: rubyfruit <mrjones@goucher.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: rubyfruit <mrjones@goucher.edu>
subject: re: "poor, pitiful me"
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i would like to clarify something, i do not have a "poor, pitiful me
attitude", and if that is what was inferred from my post maybe it should
be read again.  i do not care if the world approves of my life and my
sexuality, i do not ask for acceptance.  however, i do exist and as a
human being and as a bisexual female i do not want to be, no i demand not
to be shoved aside.  and that is what society does when it does not
accurately reflect the population.  when there are no african-americans
on television or in magazine ads people readily call our society
racist.  when women face the "glass ceiling" in the business world people
call it sexist.  well, when i can loose my job or my home, when my
life long committment is not recognized simply because my partner is
female i call that heterosexist.  and this heterosexist society is the
society that has cradled me and raised me and taught me how to be
socially acceptable.  and when i look around "socially acceptable" does
not include queer.  that's why i think it is importatnt for people like
ellen and melissa etheridge and the poli sci professor i had last
semester and the rabbi at the synagogue down the street and senators and
janitors and astronauts and artists and anyone else to live openly and
honestly.  maybe i wouldn't be so skepticle if when i was younger i had
seen that even though i was queer i could still be anything i wanted to
be.  but that was not an image presented to me, my life and my choices
are limited because of how society views my sexuality, not how i view my
self.  i am a strong, independent, and (at the risk of sounding
conceited) beautiful woman and it took me a long time to realize that.
but as long as i know that it is unimportant what anyone else thinks.
what is important is that as a citizen of this country and as a human
being that i am treated with the same respect as everyone else.  and
frankly right now that does not happen.

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 10:26:46 -0700
reply-to: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
subject: re: igc that will send the ellen people to the ellen list!! ;)
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i agree...
*and* i love the native american ( <---gawd i hope that's politically
c'rect:-)) sound at the beginning of sys... puts me in mind of the driving
drum beat etc of jonas + ezekial... woo hoo, amy ray!:-) that and the
background vocals by pura fe crescioni in emily's batl... mmmmmm... shivers
peace... kim ( sucker for other culture, tribal-like sounds... )

"that weak feeling you're experiencing is the blood flow
being cut off to your brain. you'll be dead in less than a minute...
or we could talk..."
- xena, warrior princess.

excuse my ignorance, but what's a lipstick lesbian? thanks.

elizabeth

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 10:40:53 -0700
reply-to: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
subject: nigc re: "poor, pitiful me"
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nuts!!!!
i thought this was gonna be a post about terri clark ( canadian country
singer + woman with a geetar, extroidinaire )... she's done a remake o'
linda rondstat's poor poor pitiful me... excellant, um... and she's real eye
candy for y'all who like those "tomboy" ( her word ) stetson sporting
beauties...
peace... kim
*********************************************************
with every lesson learned a line upon your beautiful face,
we'll amuse ourselves one day with these memories we'll
trace... emily saliers
**********************************************************

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 13:45:42 -0400
reply-to: amy cason <stu6361@westga.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: amy cason <stu6361@westga.edu>
subject: re: time to brag...
x-to: lorinda wright <wright@biodec.wustl.edu>
in-reply-to: <pine.ult.3.91.970509100957.2656b-100000@biodec.wustl.edu>
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i agree. i have nothing to trade for a boot, and anyway it's not nice to
tease us like that. shame on you. no pun intended =)
amy c.

on fri, 9 may 1997, lorinda wright wrote:

> > listen y'all, i guess i'm really advertising when i say this, but the
> > answer to the meaning behind the "115 you are 17" line that everyone is
> > racking their brains over is on the psu concert/interview boot.  so,
> > trade for the boot, and enlighten yourselves...
>
> ok, you've had your fun. you've proved you know something the rest of us
> don't. now quit teasing and tell us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i don't have time
> to trade for the boot, and i absolutely refuse to wait. this is like one
> of those terrible "news promos." you know the ones that say, "something
> really exciting happened that you absolutely have to know about...tune in
> at 10:00 to hear about it."
>
> tell us!!!!!
> please?
>
> folkisgruven,
> lorindigo
>
>
> still driving...
> lorinda wright           the trouble in my head is getting closer and closer
> washington university     to my legs i've got to walk it out. and the trouble
> st. louis, mo             with my heart is that i can't rip it out. and the
>                           trouble with myself is that i don't know me.
>                                                         -melissa ferrick
>                     i will not be complacent
>
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date: fri, 9 may 1997 13:08:20 -0400
reply-to: sharon parker <sparke61@violet.umfacad.maine.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: sharon parker <sparke61@violet.umfacad.maine.edu>
subject: re: nigc - ellen/lesbian/straight
x-to: dave mangot <mangot@netcom.com>
in-reply-to: <199705082247.paa27745@netcom23.netcom.com>
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on thu, 8 may 1997, dave mangot wrote:

> (kinda long)
>
> ok.
>
> there is just wayyyyy to much flame bait out here now.
>
> whoever said gay people have access to "secrets" that other
> people don't is a, well this is a family mail list right?
>
> by perpetuating such ridiculous comments you are totally
> going against the whole point made that gay people live
> "normal" lives just like everyone else.  they go to
> work, they come home, they watch tv, and hopefully if
> hi wakes up, will be able to marry too.  in fact, to
> claim to be part of some "secret" organization you
> further divide yourself from the society that is
> hopefully finally learning to not be such retards
> when it comes to a person's sexuality.  this is
> totally the point of ellen's toaster joke.  there
> is no secret society!!!!  i can see it now,
> "i'm a card carrying..."
>
it's true that we gay folks are indeed privy to a few secrets that the
straight community doesn't have, but that's only because we have to band
together against the homophobic minority out there. we don't do it to have
a secret society! hee hee...i would love to just be accepted by
everyone,but until i can walk across campus holding hands with my gf
without getting yelled at or stomped on, i'm gonna hang on to my gay
community with both hands...
         not a flame, tho!
                           sharoane
*******************************************************************************
          if at first you don't fricassee, fry fry a hen
*******************************************************************************

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 14:21:36 -0400
reply-to: "melissa a. kinzer" <mkinzer@acsworld.net>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "melissa a. kinzer" <mkinzer@acsworld.net>
subject: re: the f-word:-)
x-to: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
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> my ten year old daughter just loves the
>girls and sings along with all my stuff, but not this one, baybee, nu uh...
>not this song. i am all for freedom of speach etc, but i just don't see why
>amy couldn't have said "messin" or something else, just for *me* so's i
>could relax:-)... lol...
>there... nuff said...
>peace all... kim ( goddess of burnt bagels )

my nine year old son heard it, and giggled like beavis, but was told not
to sing it to grandma or daddy. my problem is that now my local "top 40"
radio stations cannot play it because it is not rate pg. i agree it
probably could have been something else.

missy

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 11:22:16 -0700
reply-to: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
subject: re: ellen joke (nigc)
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at 12:56 pm 5/9/97 -0500, elizabeth wrote:
>excuse my ignorance, but what's a lipstick lesbian? thanks.
me!!!!!
:-) no... guess not, i gots "the" hair cut ( cept fer the dang curls... and,
well...) kay then... my gf!!!! yup. ( am i not right kim in nv?... trace in
seattle?? ):-)
hmmm, me thinks a "lipstick lesbian" is a lesbian who "passes"... she looks
het... you know; make up, "feminine" hair n' clothes... the whole bit... you
don't look at her and have yer gay-dar ( lol!!! some of us do have it )
goin' off all over the place + some inner voice sayin "rrreeet rrreeet
rrreeet... gay woman off the port bow...."
peace... kim, who promises to stop posting to the list for the rest of this
day... it's just that i've missed you all so....
*********************************************************
with every lesson learned a line upon your beautiful face,
we'll amuse ourselves one day with these memories we'll
trace... emily saliers
**********************************************************

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 11:28:07 -0700
reply-to: gwendigo <gkeyt@paul.spu.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: gwendigo <gkeyt@paul.spu.edu>
subject: the secret society re: nigc - ellen/lesbian/straight
in-reply-to: <pine.lnx.3.95.970509130559.24732a-100000@violet.umfacad.maine.edu>
mime-version: 1.0
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> > totally the point of ellen's toaster joke. there
> > is no secret society!!!! i can see it now,
> > "i'm a card carrying..."

no, there is no secret society, but there is a secret code.

fire!fire!fire! umm uh mmm huh huh!

for those of you who don't know, "fire" is a secret code word for
lesbians. so are combat boots. so if you ever wear combat boots, or if
you write songs with the word fire in it, yepp, you're a big ole lesbian.

you mean you didn't know that!? ;)
[get the joke already!]
*************************************************************************
i don't want what is best for you, where will i be when you've found
it? i pray a lot about these bad feelings inside but i can't pray my way
through or around it.--emily saliers
*****gwen keyt******
seattle pacific university
bsn class of 1997!!!
gkeyt@paul.spu.edu

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 13:33:22 -0600
reply-to: joey joe joe junior shabidoo <feiaj01@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: joey joe joe junior shabidoo <feiaj01@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu>
subject: re: the demise of ellen (nigc)
mime-version: 1.0
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>if you ask me, though, i think that "ellen" using stereotypes is a positive
>thing.  think about it:  it's not only using stereotypes, it's making fun of
>them.  it's like saying to the homophobic "community":  "do you see how
>ridiculous these stereotypes are?"  "can't you see how silly you're being?"
>
>that's, at least, how i see it.
>
it would be nice if things worked like that, but the perennial problem of
satire is that it's not effective.  an a priori argument can be made for this.
for example, let's posit the existence of three parties; homophobe, ellen, and
good-humored liberal; engaged in a satirical circumstance.  ellen does a
satirical immitation of homophobe. ghl laughs heartily and winks at and elbows
homophobe in the ribs, expecting that homophobe got the joke.  homophobe at
this point can have five reactions. a) he can get irritated at the rib poking
because he just didn't get what the satire was about. b)he can laugh along
because he didn't recognize that it was he who was being satirized. c) he can
recognize himself but not recognize that he is being represented satirically.
("finally someone in the media is giving me a voice," he says proudly.) d) he
can become enraged at the elitism of the satirist and the representation that
makes him look like a buffoon.  finally, there is the reaction that a satirist
hopes for, e)homophobe sees himself as the object of satire and is moved to
change his attitudes and actions as a result of this good-natured tweeking.
        given that the assumption of satire (the point of doing it at all) is
that the target is deficient in some way, usually mentally or morally, it seems
that the satirist's hope for e is dismally unrealistic.  most likely, a satire
will result in nothing more than a genuine laugh from those "in the know."
                                just some thoughts,
                                julie feia

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 11:41:50 -0700
reply-to: derek moulaison <dmoulaison@doubleclick.net>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: derek moulaison <dmoulaison@doubleclick.net>
subject: sigc - i played open mike with caroline aiken in oakland last
 night!
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hi everbody. well i had about the best luck ever last night. i was playing
at a open mike at the whole shabang in alameda last night, and i was one of
the last people up. well, i'm about half way through fugitive and who comes
walking out of the bathroom and right past the stage......caroline aiken! i
almost dropped my guitar i was so shocked. well anyways, as this was the
kind of grand opening for this new pub, and she was in town for some
reason, she got up and did over an hour, blowing the roof of the
place....all for free! i requested a song from her album and she was
shocked that someone in alameda knew her stuff. for those of you who
haven't seen caroline live, she is absolutely amazing. i never seen anyone
do the things she does with a guitar. phenomenal. i'm not sure if her show
at kuwumbwa (sp?) in santa cruz has past, but if not its very soon, like
next week?, go see her. if you don't love her, i'll pay for your ticket.

one last thing, it always seems with caroline aiken, i get all starstruck
and can't hold a normal conversation. when i met her after her show in
berkeley last year i simply wanted to say i like her music and heard her
open for ig. i end up sounding like stuttering john from th howard stern
show! last night, i went to say hi and ask if her manager, lorene(who i met
at her last show and is on and off this list), was with her,so i could say
hi. and i sounded like a dork again........aarrgghh. but she did say that i
sounded good playing. i'll be fan forever just for that...........

what's the moral of the story, support your local music scene, you never
know who might show up!

still grinning,

derek

derek moulaison
dmoulaison@doubleclick.net
(415) 919-0502

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 13:50:00 -0500
reply-to: jamie <suthardj@southwestern.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: jamie <suthardj@southwestern.edu>
subject: nigc goodbye till august
x-to: "melissa a. kinzer" <mkinzer@acsworld.net>
in-reply-to: <19970509182007328.aaa138@[198.113.178.101]>
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i'll see everyone of you fortunate ones in august. i have to work all
summer and wont have access to anything on-line. be safe! talk to you
soon.

jamie a suthard
<suthardj@ralph.southwestern.edu>

hiya. just wanna share my opinions about the subject of stereotypes in general
since i think some people are being quite inconsistent without realizing it.

1) steroetypes are _based_ on real observations.  this does not mean that they
equal facts; what it means is that someone said to someone else "gosh, the
plumber i called over had these baggy pants and they showed his butt!"  and
the friend said "hey! that happened to me, too!"  this goes on until it builds
into a stereotype.

2) stereotypes are the cousins of generalities, without which we could not
function. generalities include everything from "i'm pretty sure that gravity
will still be in effect tomorrow" (so almost-certain that it's a law) to
"if i study, i will get a better grade" (could be true, but who knows?)

3) what makes stereotypes different from generalities is that they have the
  potential to hurt people.  if i move to new hampshire and apply for a high-
  tech job, i could not get it because they think all south carolinians are
  inbred racist morons, etc.  this part is important, because it explains the
  phenomenon that stereotypes about empowered people are "ok," but stereotypes
  about unepowered people are not.  the idea is that white people are in a
  position to deny black people things because of stereotypes, but blacks have
  little/no control over the fate of whites, and so on.

once you understand this, you see why it's societally sanctioned to have
bad stereotypes of whites, christians, lawyers, large corporations, politi-
cians, but not various minorities, and (this is the important part) it's not
because all the stereotypes about empowered people are correct and the ones
about minorities are wrong. theoretically, then, in a society controlled by
gays, it would be ok to make lesbian jokes, but not kosher to joke about
heteros.

  get it?  so don't say that the stereotypes you don't like are unfounded and
the ones you use are true.  that is hypocritical.  (after all, if one maintains
that "gayness" is genetic, wouldn't there be accompanying _genetic_ sexual
traits?)  a much more fruitful debate, imo, is whether we are justified in
using any stereotypes against individuals.  we should take each situation and
each person as we encounter them.

thanx for putting up with my preaching, chris

ps- please flame me, if need be, over personal email. let's keep nastiness off
this list....

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 14:18:33 -0600
reply-to: greg flamer <gflame@nwu.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: greg flamer <gflame@nwu.edu>
subject: chicago tribune review and gotm q
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the tribune has reviewed shaming of the sun so i thought i'd post it. the
following is reprinted completely illegally and without the express written
consent of the loser who wrote it :)

indigo girls
shaming of the sun
(epic) **1/2

on an indigo girls album you know what to expect: some pretty melodies and
harmonies; an everybody-hold-hands, us-against-the-corrupt-world vibe;
sweet-voiced, naive earnestness from emily saliers; tough poses from a
growling amy ray; tasteful, rootsy arrangements that have grown more
cluttered on recent albums; not a speck of humor.  so it goes for the new
one.  a hurt sounding saliers laments government conspiracies to burn
southern black churches (the piano ballad leeds) and to tap her phone (burn
all the letters, punctuated by weird tribal chanting), while ray bellows
apocalytically on don't give that girl a gun and an abrasive excursion into
folk-hop, shed your skin.  still these two know their audience well and as
hey kind friend and get out the map show, they've retained their
big-sisterly appeal.

editorial comments:  i am sure ulali are sitting home going--cool we've
been reduced to weird tribal chanting.  what a fartnogger this reviewer is.
and excuse me but ig have lots of humor in their songs.  i mean there's
airplane and...and...and   ;-)

their humor comes out in concert only i guess. the guy needs to go to a
concert clearly.

onto a question.  it is very nitpicky but i need to know.  in gotm there is
a part where a and e are harmonizing towards the end there and i can't seem
to figure out who is singing which part.  i must know.  if you have a cd
player (these days that's like asking if you have a phone) go to 2:45 on
your timer.  they are harmonizing the "i'm gonna clear my head, i'm gonna
drink that sun" part.  i will spell this out very precisely to mark the
point of confusion for me.

2:45 a says i'm gonna clear my head followed shortly by e saying same line

2:48 a says i'm gonna drink that sun followed by e saying same line

2:50 e is still finishing up her i'm gonna drink that sun line when a
voice comes in with the beginning of "i'm gonna love you"

2:52 a finishes line beginning with "good and strong til our love is good
and young.

question: who is singing the "i'm gonna love you" part at 2:50.  it seems
way too high for amy.  how can it be emily if she hasn't finished her other
line.  and i don't seem to recall past cd's having either of the girls
harmonize with themselves via dubbing  (of course i could be mistaken on
that one).  deb reiser, did you have a cameo on this album and didn't tell
me?  :)  was it you, kira?  alycia?  lorinda?  sherlyn?  margaret?  dee?
it was lynn martin--reprising her role from newport :).  thanks for help
and input

greg

btw--nigc but if you haven't picked up living in clip by ani difranco i
suggest you shuffle your heiny (sp?) over to a record store and do so. i
mean i actually removed sots today to listen to ani instead :o later.

!@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*!@#$%^&
# greg m. flamer      gflame@nwu.edu  %
$ 535 w briar pl #556                 *
& chicago, il  60657                  &
^                                     )
# "i'm starting to get over the urge  &
&  to kill somebody and into the      *
$  urge to...rock!"--ani difranco     ?
!@#$%^&*()!@#$%^&*()!@#$%^&*()!@#$%^&*&

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 15:14:09 -0400
reply-to: deb <indigo@mindspring.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: deb <indigo@mindspring.com>
subject: indigo girls on cnn tonight!
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how apropos... i found this on the ellen list. :)

>to: "ellen" <ellen@caligari.dartmouth.edu>
>from: "teresa crittenden" <jahawk22@hit.net>
>date: fri, 09 may 97 14:00:27 pdt
>reply-to: "teresa crittenden" <jahawk22@hit.net>
>
>for all you ig fans, they'll be on cnn's showbiz
>today. at 5:30pm edt & repeated at 12:30am edt.
>
>tlc

--
deb \\ indigo@mindspring.com \\ http://www.mindspring.com/~indigo
____________________________________________________________________________
"i'm a pagan for jesus!" - amy ray

something feel through with my previous buyer and so i still have the
tix available.  if your interested please e-mail me privately asap.
they are in section 6,row b,seats 11-12 at madison square garden
june 3rd.  ig show starts at 8 pm.  i'm selling them at cost,
$50 face value of tix, $2 facility charge, $13 tm convenience charge,
$3 handling charge($68 total).  i'll need a money order in the amount
of $68 (no checks as they could bounce) and as soon as i get word from
my parents that they got the money,(the receipt i got from tm will be
included in the envelope as well) the tix will be sent out by 3day priority
mail.  thanks! jen :-)

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 16:54:21 -0400
reply-to: "christina j. carr" <carrcj@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "christina j. carr" <carrcj@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
subject: goodbyes, and messages for pj and wendell
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i must sign off for the summer because school is ending, but never fear
wendell and pj, your boots are coming.  i did not forget, but i have to
wait until i get home before i can dub them.  they will be arriving within
the next week and a half!  see you all in august!
chris carr
"do or do not.  there is no try..."
                 -quote from a very wise little green muppet...

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 17:02:41 -0400
reply-to: andrea lipman <ablipman@sas.upenn.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: andrea lipman <ablipman@sas.upenn.edu>
subject: ig on cnn...
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jan asked me to pass this along to the list...she just read the cnn news on
her pager, and the ig's are going to be on showbiz today, cnn, 5:30pm est.
today-live!

andi

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 14:17:29 -0700
reply-to: jan monforton <jmonfort@vannet.k12.wa.us>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: jan monforton <jmonfort@vannet.k12.wa.us>
subject: amy's interview in stomp and stammer
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i'm proably going to get flamed for this, but i've been thinking about it
and i have to say something. for those of you who read the article in
stomp and stammer (thanks to the person who took the time to send it!),
did anyone find it just a little disturbing that amy seems to really be
into drugs? i certainly did. am i the only one who is concerned about
drug use in our culture? well, i'd like to hear what others have to say.
-sam

uuuuhhh.

i have a cat.

i call her 'bunny butt'. she likes to eat fish.

bye.

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date: thu, 8 may 1997 17:28:07 -0400
reply-to: sarah o'farrell <sofarrel@scott.skidmore.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: sarah o'farrell <sofarrel@scott.skidmore.edu>
subject: fare thee well my bright stars...
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hey y'all,

        well, i'm out of here tomorrow morning, so i'll be signing off the
list for the summer.  it's been great and i thank you for being such a
wonderful group of people.  i never thought that i'd develop so many
friendships on the internet.  special thanks to amy teplow and tracy fears-
you gals are fabulous!!!!  also, thanks for all the support regarding my
former art teacher.  i decided to write back to him and very neutrally told
him how i felt about his dismissing the indigo girls due to their
orienation.  well, i think that i'm going to have a major battle on my
hands.  let's just say that this message was even more upsetting than the
first.  anyway, if any of you want to reach me, you can still email me, but
there's no guarentee that i'll be able to check it at home.  i'm probably
going to be back here in july, though, so i'll probably rejoin the list
then.  have an indigo summer and i'll see all you fellow jerseyans at the
pnc show june 5th (will you people be wearing some sort of list t-shirts or
something?  i'd love to meet some list members).

take care and be happy,

sarah :-)

******************************************************************************
"i am a lonely painter           "there are no happy endings
i live in a box of paints."        because nothing ends."
         -joni mitchell                -smendrick, the last unicorn

"you can talk a great philosophy,   "and where does magic come from?
but if you can't be kind to people   i think that magic's in the learning."
everyday then it doesn't mean                -dar williams
that much to me."
        -ani difranco

"heterosexuals like ice."
-ellen

"you have to laugh at yourself      "there are a lot of people who
because you'd cry your eyes         figure prominently in your life
out if you didn't."                 that you may only nod to; it's
        -emily saliers               better to stop and say hello."
                                           -amy ray

******************************************************************************

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 14:26:58 -0700
reply-to: verdi@imap2.asu.edu
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: verdi@imap2.asu.edu
subject: re: more sots and charts
x-to: "christopher m. becker" <cmbecker@space.mit.edu>
in-reply-to: <199705091459.kaa26559@netspace.org>
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today's question is...how can a single make it one the top 40 if the
single doesn't exsist(and promos don't count). if they wasnt more radio
play they better get movin and release that single. my dream is to hear
casey kasem say and now at #1 the indigo girls with.....
ben
-who honestly just wants to hear the acoustic versions of sots songs they
put on singles:)

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 17:30:10 -0400
reply-to: "joan m. cyr" <jcyr@mit.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "joan m. cyr" <jcyr@mit.edu>
subject: thanks deb! the tapes a rollin!
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hey y'all....looks like the cnn show biz today show will have a live
rendition of "it's alright".....

more later.....thanks deb for telling us....!
joni :o)

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 16:31:39 -0500
reply-to: bassmandan@box100.com
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: dan perkins <bassmandan@box100.com>
subject: re: secret society (and a little indigo content)
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gwendigo wrote:

>fire!fire!fire! umm uh mmm huh huh!

>for those of you who don't know, "fire" is a secret code word for
>lesbians. so are combat boots. so if you ever wear combat boots, or >if you write songs with the word fire in it, yepp, you're a big ole >lesbian.

so, does this make james taylor (i've seen fire and i've seen rain...) a
lesbian? bruce springsteen ('cause when we kiss, ummmmm fire...) a
lesbian.

well, i looked back at all the songs i have ever written, and i can't
find one instance of using the word fire. so, i guess i am left out of
the secret society.

ok, completely off the subject (sort of). i have always wondered way a
man is "gay" and a woman is "a lesbian". this has always struck me as
odd. in the case of men it seems to be an adjective, like he's tall...
he's gay.... but if we say she is a lesbian, then lesbian becomes a noun
and it appears to become a defining term of the individual instead of an
adjective describing a part of the whole. just seems odd to me... any
thoughts...

on an indigo note, has anyone else thought that in caramia emily is
actually talking to a part of herseslf? i have started to think this
song is addressing the creative part of herself. often, at least in my
experience, the creative part of the self is somewhat, well tortured. i
think this is who emily is talking to, in herself. anyone else?

peace,

dan perkins
tour guide to the obvious,
post-episodic clairvoyant,
bassist/singer/songwriter.

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 17:40:16 -0400
reply-to: "joan m. cyr" <jcyr@mit.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "joan m. cyr" <jcyr@mit.edu>
subject: ok, maybe it's not alright...
mime-version: 1.0
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the little tidbits are throwing me off....so far, ig have played twice going
out to commericial on shobiz today..once they were playing "it's
alright"....now they were playing "shed your skin..."

we'll just have to wait and see...
joni :o)

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 15:43:56 -0600
reply-to: stephanie moss <stephanie.moss@m.cc.utah.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: stephanie moss <stephanie.moss@m.cc.utah.edu>
subject: newbie + sigc
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hi. (no, i'm not a neon ;-)

i'm steph and a long-time ig fan.  anyway, i just thought i'd tell you
all that ig is on cnn's program showbiz today.  check your local listings
for times.  that's all.

steph

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[w]ho shall measure the heat and violence of the poet's heart when caught
and tangled in a woman's body?
--------------------------------------------v.w.------------------------------

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 17:58:58 -0400
reply-to: "joan m. cyr" <jcyr@mit.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "joan m. cyr" <jcyr@mit.edu>
subject: ok, here it is...ig on showbiz
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little chat, and soy....

good news/funny part...amy starts playing and it sounds off...she looks at
the guitar and says..."whoops! um, capo...hehehhe" emily says "hehe...capo!"

kim...you can let your kid see this, cuz they totally bleeped out the bad
word....hehehehehe :o)

bad news: cut off! here's where it ended "...funny i think we were on...."
and thats it. blech.

off for mexican food! yay! margarita and fajitas! yummmm!

later y'all!
joni :o)

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 18:03:15 -0400
reply-to: audrey beth stein <abstein@force.stwing.upenn.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: audrey beth stein <abstein@force.stwing.upenn.edu>
subject: what the fnark?
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"funny i think we were on the same boat---"

and then they cut it off. arggggghhhh!!! i hope for everyone else's
sake it was just philly cnn and not everyone.

i was thinking about how happy i get, just grinning and literally on the
edge of my seat whenever i see amy and emily on tv and how friggin
irrational and crazy it is but how cool it is, to see people you don't
even know all happy and doing what they do best and be happy yourself just
seeing it and knowing it's happening.  and then cnn cut off the end and it
felt all wrong.  you can't just do that, stop in the middle of the song
like that.  have they no respect????

anyway it was still neat to see part of it.

later y'all,
audrey

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 18:05:44 -0400
reply-to: susan and jocelyn <teddie@mindspring.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: susan and jocelyn <teddie@mindspring.com>
subject: re: indigo girls on cnn tonight!
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hey all,

does anyone know where a+e were for the cnn live thingie that was just on? some club called ts something? we missed everything but the song (which cnn cut off, by the way - harrumph!) anyhoo - just wondering what city it was - quick answer, anyone? anyone?

peace,
susan & jocie

----------
from:   deb[smtp:indigo@mindspring.com]
sent:   friday, may 09, 1997 3:14 pm
to:     indigo-girls@netspace.org
subject:        indigo girls on cnn tonight!

how apropos... i found this on the ellen list. :)

--
deb \\ indigo@mindspring.com \\ http://www.mindspring.com/~indigo
____________________________________________________________________________
"i'm a pagan for jesus!" - amy ray

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 18:27:44 -0400
reply-to: mark anthony donajkowski <madonajk@alpha.delta.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: mark anthony donajkowski <madonajk@alpha.delta.edu>
subject: girls on cnn right now
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the girls were just on cnn on showbiz today also is it just me or is it
everytime they sing but i keep fuckign up amy looks at emily and smirks
it seems its been that way in every tv performance ive seen
hugs anthony van pyre

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 15:46:53 -0700
reply-to: tom jobes <tomcat@netcom.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: tom jobes <tomcat@netcom.com>
subject: nigc whoops
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sorry, i meant to send bonster's reply direct. oh well, happy friday!

tom

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 15:45:46 -0700
reply-to: tom jobes <tomcat@netcom.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: tom jobes <tomcat@netcom.com>
subject: wrek date
in-reply-to: <97may8.233050-0400_edt.33518-656+2541@brimstone.netspace.org>
 from "automatic digest processor" at may 8, 97 11:30:24 pm
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> date: thu, 8 may 1997 15:57:37 -0700
> from: bonster@bp05.u.washington.edu
> subject: i need a date...

the date i have for mine is 2-27-89, which is the date given for
the lyrics for half moon cafe on the lifeblood site.

> wrek
>
> set list:
> don't give up on me baby
> walk away
> thin line
> mona lisas and mad hatters
> half moon cafe

hand me downs is on mine here.

> nashville
> untitled song
> welcome me
> love of the common people
> ballad of squeaky frome

take care,
tom

ok, i'm not sure if these have been posted before. i oftten delete more
than i read. so here is what may be the possible chords for hkf:

capo 5

e 022100
asus? 002200
bsus?? 004400

you sort of stay on e for awhile, till the "hey kind friend..." where you
change to the asus thingy. i have no idea how to name chords. i play by
ear. more or less. if anyone sees what i'm seeing, can you please tell me
if this is right?

all things indigo,
liz

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 16:10:50 -0700
reply-to: tom jobes <tomcat@netcom.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: tom jobes <tomcat@netcom.com>
subject: re: crayola trivia, and a question
in-reply-to: <97may9.131215-0400_edt.33181-1676+984@brimstone.netspace.org>
 from "automatic digest processor" at may 9, 97 01:11:39 pm
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alicia bender <rainbowgirl69@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >i was visiting the crayola site in an attempt to find out the html codes
> >for red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and violet. no such luck
> >-- can anyone help me out? (i'm trying to add a little color to the
> >color me indigo logo.) crayola doesn't even seem to *make* indigo
> >crayons...unless anyone can prove me wrong here i think it's about time
> >for a protest. heck, it's not like it's an unusual color -- it's part of
> >the friggin rainbow!
> >
> actually they took it out of the spectrum... it's been roygbv for a
> few years now.

hmmm, i always suspected that "indigo" was listed only because they needed
a vowel, and blue-purple (which i think is the name of the crayon) would
turn roy g. biv into something, ahem, unspeakable :-)

tom

hey everyone!

well, i just finished watching a&e on cnn showbiz.  it was great!  as someone
posted earlier, it will be on again @12:30am est.  if you don't get a chance
to watch or tape it, i was able to, so i'd gladly make copies for ya.  i will
be out of town until monday, so if you email me, don't expect a reply until
then.

amy seems pretty nervous, and after they both spoke, she leaned over to emily
and whispered "was i bad?"  it was so cute. of course emily said "no! no you
weren't bad".  well, at least that is what i think they said.  i am certainly
no lip reader.  :)  they  started to play "shame on you", but then amy
realized she still had her capo on the 1st fret.  she stopped playing and and
threw it on the floor....while emily was cracking up and yelled out "rock and
roll!"  they should be a comedy team in their spare time!  beside the
interruption of the credits rolling next to them on the screen, it was
great!!!!

have a great weekend!

jan-(who lied and left work early just to see a&e for 3 min. on tv...i scare
myself sometimes! thank god for the cnn news updates i get on my pager!!!)

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 19:50:42 -0400
reply-to: andi <ablipman@sas.upenn.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: andi <ablipman@sas.upenn.edu>
subject: ig on cnn, dar, ellen, me going home, etc.
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first of all, thanks to my wonderful bf, jan, i caught ig on cnn showbiz
today!  they showed  short preview clips of them playing ia, sys, and
galileo live, and the po2 video.  the cnn woman asked them a few questions
about going top 40 & touring, and then they showed most of a&e playing soy,
which was all acoustic.  e was wearing a rage against the machine shirt,
and a was wearing that red & blank polka-dotted l/s shirt.  they showed the
show credits during the song, and ended the show right before the "1964"
line.  both a&e were pretty smiley, especially after the "fucking up" line!
it was pretty cool!  i taped it, but i don't have 2 vcr's, so i have no way
of dubbing it for people.

i saw dar last week on south street in philadelphia, and i took some pretty
good pictures of her. either go to my main page, and click on "dar
williams" or go directly to http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~ablipman/darpics to
see them.

this whole ellen thing reminded me of the movie, "jeffrey." i had to watch
it for my writing class this year, & i wrote a paper about how the comedy
in the film makes the serious subjects of aids, love, and homosexuality
more palatable for both gay and straight viewers. it sounds pretty similar
to what ellen is doing. i just thought i'd mention that connection.

i'm going home tomorrow, so i probably won't have access to e-mail for a
few days.  if you need to reach me, you can e-mail me at my penn address,
b/c i will check my mail as soon as i get online from home, & i'm also
going to forward my mail to my new e-mail address, which i don't know yet.
if i owe you boots, they'll be in the mail pretty soon.  if you owe me
boots, please send them to my nj address.  if we're in the middle of
working out a trade, i'll e-mail you as soon as i get online again.  if i
owe you personal e-mail, you will get it shortly.  i've been busy w/ finals
& papers & stuff, but now it's all over!

andi

                   "and the ones that can know you so well
            are the ones that can swallow you whole."-dar williams
  _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

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date: sat, 10 may 1997 07:55:11 +0800
reply-to: siti <skunky@post1.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: siti <skunky@post1.com>
subject: re: chicago tribune review and gotm q
mime-version: 1.0
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content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

this is a multi-part message in mime format.

------=_nextpart_000_01bc5d17.7c74ed80
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well, i listened to that part of the song a few times and have come to the
conclusion that it is amy...i know it's kinda high, but as she has proven
in sb, she is able to reach high notes...

incidentally, while on the subject of high notes on sb, did anyone else
notice that amy's voice was kinda strained at approximately 1:17m of the
song..oh well...

yea, 1 last question, is it my imagination or is there some sorta mumbling
during sys at around 1:35m, .....after ulali's scream...can't quite make it
out whether they are words or just wailing....lemme know

i guess i should find something else better to do instead of scrutinising
the whole album...yea, well...;)

siti
------=_nextpart_000_01bc5d17.7c74ed80
content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body bgcolor=3d"#ffffff">well, i listened to that part =
of the song a few times and have come to the conclusion that it is =
amy...i know it's kinda high, but as she has proven in sb, she is able =
to reach high notes... incidentally, while on the subject of high =
notes on sb, did anyone else notice that amy's voice was kinda strained =
at approximately 1:17m of the song..oh well... yea, 1 last =
question, is it my imagination or is there some sorta mumbling during =
sys at around 1:35m, .....after ulali's scream...can't quite make it out =
whether they are words or just wailing....lemme know i guess i =
should find something else better to do instead of scrutinising the =
whole album...yea, well...;) siti
</body></html>
------=_nextpart_000_01bc5d17.7c74ed80--

in a message dated 97-05-09 14:48:14 edt, you write:

<< yer gay-dar ( lol!!! some of us do have it )
goin' off all over the place + some inner voice sayin "rrreeet rrreeet
rrreeet... gay woman off the port bow...." >>

funny...mine always goes fweep fweep fweep...in some cases it's more like
fweep fweep fweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep...

sorry...just another of my random ramblings...

dawn

does anyone know if it will be repeated tonight at 12:30 eastern tonight?

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 17:37:08 -0700
reply-to: kathy miller <kazoo@earthling.net>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: kathy miller <kazoo@earthling.net>
subject: re: ellen joke (nigc)
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hmmmm, that's odd.  our model of gaydar says 'deet-dee-dee' (like 3 d's
for 'dyke') when it sees a lesbian.  for gay men, it says 'tra-la-la-a'
(emphasis on the 3rd syllable there).  do you think our gaydar is
defective or just unique??   ;-b

kathy

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 21:55:25 -0400
reply-to: emilyamy@aol.com
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "j \"tigger\" kickliter" <emilyamy@aol.com>
subject: re: amy's interview in stomp and stammer
x-to: jmonfort@vannet.k12.wa.us

i don't think it's that amy's *into* drugs per se, because like, i ahve done
my personal experimentatioin with some of it, and i support legalization if
only to keep people out of jail on piddling crap and certainly reefer's no
more deadly than tobacco. but i don't think she 's *into* drugs, it's just
her opinion. i'm sure in my own mind that if she was a druggie, it'd be
seriously obvious.

peace, harmony & indigo,

tigger, high priestess of amyism (emilyamy@aol.com)
member - ssim yknib naf bulc
******************************************************************************
*
"it's alright if you hate that way/hate me 'cause i'm different/hate me
'cause i'm gay..." - e. saliers
"i said you know it's funny/i think we were on the same boat back in 1694" -
a. ray
"mothers tell your children/be quick you must be strong/life is full of
wonder/love is never wrong..." - m. etheridge
******************************************************************************
*

on fri, 9 may 1997 jan monforton <jmonfort@vannet.k12.wa.us> writes:
>i'm proably going to get flamed for this, but i've been thinking about
it
>and i have to say something. for those of you who read the article in
>stomp and stammer (thanks to the person who took the time to send it!),
>did anyone find it just a little disturbing that amy seems to really be
>into drugs? i certainly did. am i the only one who is concerned about
>drug use in our culture? well, i'd like to hear what others have to say.
>-sam

i'm not quite sure what you mean by "drug use in our culture", but
our culture is already saturated with drugs: caffeine, nicotine, alcohol,

prescription drugs, over-the-counter drugs, even illegal recreational
drugs. humans have a basic urge to alter their consciousness.
drugs are but one of many ways to accomplish this, and every culture
on earth has drug use in its history. in fact, humankind's shift from
being nomadic hunter-gatherers to an agricultural-based society was
driven in part by the desire to have a regular supply of grain to make
alcohol.

keep in mind that what's illegal in one country or culture might be
legal in another. for example, during the gulf war, the troops weren't
allowed to have alcohol because it wasn't legal in saudi arabia.
hashish was legal there, and the dutch troops could use it, but not
the americans because it was still illegal for them. also, many of the
drugs that are illegal in the u.s. were originally prohibited in order to

oppress the minority which used them.

i think the point that amy's making in the interview is very sane.  amy
is acknowledging that there is a difference between drug use and
drug abuse.  believe it or not, i'm more concerned with ctf's
reference to binge drinking ("and i woke up with a headache
like my head against a board", etc.) than with amy stating that it's
stupid that pot is illegal, not to mention that i agree with her.  her
willingness to take a stand on this issue only deepens my respect
for her.  she didn't say she was "into drugs", but she's admitting that
she has smoked pot.  go amy!

now, here's the excerpt from the interview if y'all want to see exactly
what amy said:
*-have you ever done a bunch of drugs?
*"a bunch? (laughs) well, i've done my share, but it's relative, isn't
it?
*for me, uh, no, probably not as much as i could. (laughs) my issue with
*drugs now is, you don't know what you're getting ever, and the best
things
*that are natural and organic aren't available. it's a drag."
*
*-do you think they should be legalized?
*"oh, i definitely think they should legalize pot. and i think they
should
*legalize opiates in general that come from a natural form. i don't think
*they should legalize coke. or heroin. i just think they're evil. i think
*cocaine, well, it's a drug of privilege, for one thing, but i don't
know,
*for some reason, i draw the line, as far as legalization goes, at that.
i
*don't know why. it might be some weird thing in my own psyche about
*what i think is a good drug, and what isn't a good drug. but i think
they
*should legalize pot. i really do. i think it's really stupid that they
haven't.
*and hash, and probably opium in it's purest form. it's just, all these
*things when they start boiling stuff down, and changing it, and doing
*this and that, and it takes time, and they make a lot of money off it,
*something's wrong with that, to me."
*
*-if pot was legal, don't you think it would be totally regulated by the
*-government, and diluted, and additives put into it?
*"not if you grew it at your own home, though. i mean, that's an issue.
if
*they legalize it, does it become another tobacco industry? which is
*complete bullshit, we all know. and if that was gonna happen, i would be
*against it. i almost think, legalize it, but don't make it something
that's
*allowed to be sold, as far as big corporations go. make it something
that
*you can grow in your backyard. i don't know. put something in [the law]
to
*keep it from becoming a corporate international company."
*
*-that's kind of hard to do if something's legal. if it's legal,
shouldn't
*-anyone be allowed to buy or sell it?
*"yeah, but 'exxon marijuana'?"
*
*-but who's to say they shouldn't be allowed to sell it if they want, if
it's
*-legal?
*"i don't know. these are good questions. that's probably why i'm not on
*the city council or anything."

>i am all for freedom of speach etc, but i just don't see why
>amy couldn't have said "messin" or something else, just for *me* so's i
>could relax:-).

i think amy's swearing is not because she felt like doing it, but because
she is quoting someone. gotta quote correctly.

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 22:26:32 +0100
reply-to: widdi turner <widdi@mindspring.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: widdi turner <widdi@mindspring.com>
subject: high notes in gotm
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on 5/9/97, greg wrote:
>question: who is singing the "i'm gonna love you" part at 2:50. it seems
>way too high for amy.

i'm sure it's amy.  from personal experience, being an alto doesn't mean
you can't hit high notes; it's just not your best range.  in my case, it's
best that i don't even try!  i sound like a beach boy (or is that a beached
whale?) when i have to shift into my head voice, which is at c above middle
c. and actually, i'm not sure "i'm gonna..." even reaches (or it just
barely reaches) that c because i don't have too much of a problem hitting
the notes (it ain't a pretty sound, but how can anyone resist singing
along?).  in fact, i've noticed that most of the time in emily's songs, she
doesn't even go out of my range.  her vocal tone is higher than amy's tho',
which gives the illusion that she's singing significantly higher than amy.
plus, emily pretty much stays in her head voice, even on low notes (which
is hard to me!). i'm not a music major, this is just what i notice.

have a great weekend, all!
widdi

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date: sat, 10 may 1997 02:47:10 gmt
reply-to: lost kitty <noone@home.org>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: lost kitty <noone@home.org>
subject: re: all the ellen posts and some choice words about sexuality
 (nigc)
in-reply-to: <pine.ult.3.95.970508235641.22632d-100000@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
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on fri, 9 may 1997 00:14:09 -0400, you wrote:

>on thu, 8 may 1997, rubyfruit wrote:
>
>rather than adopting a "poor pitiful me" attitude, i go out and each and
>every day define for people what it is to be a hardworking, thoughtful,
>outspoken, person. i do what i can, and people take away what they can.
>that's what i can do. i will not be complacent. (hi lorinda!)
>
>===========================================================================
>drew vogel: coordinator of professional programs at the university of
>cincinnati college of pharmacy. actor, director, ibm fanatic, technical
>writer, dog (jrt) lover, single guy, & much, much more! try my home page
>at: "http://ucunix.san.uc.edu/~vogelap" "the only way out is through."
>
did it hurt andrew? was it painful for you falling out of heaven?

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 21:38:30 -0600
reply-to: stephanie moss <stephanie.moss@m.cc.utah.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: stephanie moss <stephanie.moss@m.cc.utah.edu>
subject: time (igc)
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sorry about adding my cnn announcement to everyone else's. i'm set up
with the digest so i didn't realize others had already announced it.

at any rate, i have a copy of the time magazine review of shaming of the
sun. i'd be happy to forward it to anyone who emails me privately. it's
about three paragraphs long with one more on laura love. i'll send the
whole thing or just the ig part, whichever you prefer.

thanks.

steph

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date: sat, 10 may 1997 00:14:02 -0400
reply-to: andi <ablipman@sas.upenn.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: andi <ablipman@sas.upenn.edu>
subject: (nigc) dar pics...whoops!
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the url to see my dar pics is
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~ablipman/darpics.html ...sorry, i forgot the
.html the first time! :)

andi

p.s.--pj & stephen from the hofstra show, write me, b/c i want to ask you a
question.

my mailbox filled up and i missed all of today's digests. could some kind
soul either send me some or all of today's digests or let me know if i
have missed something important, like a weekend tv appearance or radio
broadcast?

peace, and thanx in advance,

joan :-d

could someone who has a ladyslipper catalog e-mail me privately with
their (ladyslipper's, that is) 800-number?

thank you. we now return to your regularly scheduled progam already in progress...

joan :-d
103161.3515@compuserve.com

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 17:43:09 -0700
reply-to: verdi@imap2.asu.edu
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: verdi@imap2.asu.edu
subject: re: nigc- deep thoughts
x-to: mmedido@aol.com
in-reply-to: <970509171705_-231418138@emout18.mail.aol.com>
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are we desperate for attention or affection today. best of love to your
"bunnybutt"
ben(who would love to have nickname like "bunnybutt" but i guess "ya dumb
bastard" will have to do for now

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 23:07:25 -0600
reply-to: iex@vii.com
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "marian f. ashley" <iex@vii.com>
organization: international english exchange
subject: park city concert
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can't remember who asked about the park city concert, but wolf mountain
has made it official and ig will be playing in park city on wed july
16th. ticket sales info to be released later. you can order them through
smithtix--utah's version of ticketmaster--or an 800#. anybody else in ut
or elsewhere planning on attending?

marian
--
iex
international english exchange
the esl forum
www.vii.com/~iex/
iex@vii.com

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 22:16:49 -0700
reply-to: jan monforton <jmonfort@vannet.k12.wa.us>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: jan monforton <jmonfort@vannet.k12.wa.us>
subject: cnn tonight
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did anyone notice that cnn played all of soy just now instead of cutting
off the end like they did earlier this evening? okay, it's not earth
shattering news, but i was excited.
-sam (i still can't get over the capo part)

after watching cnn, this is like the 3rd time in as many tv sightings that i
have noticed amy covering her arms. some people before wondered why she was
covering her arms. please dont flame i'm very sensitive. i dress alot like
amy does and the last time i went around with my sleeves down i had a few
hundred stitches up and down my arms where i cut my wrists.

my point is that we should avoid speculation about this because while all our
curiosity has been piqued by this, there could be 115 personal reasons why
amy doesn't want her arms visible. it's none of our business.

and my request - can the posts about ellen please all go away?  i personally
am sick of hearing about ellen.  yeah it's great she's out well guess what -
it's over!!!  :)  if there's more ellen discussion let it be taken to the
ellen list!

i love y'all!!!!!!!!

peace, harmony & indigo,

okay, this may be kind of a sensitive message, but here goes...
how did those of you who are lesbians figure out that you are indeed
lesbians?  i've been struggling with my sexuality for about a week
and a half and it's kind of consuming me right now.  i think it's
partially brought on by ellen, those couple of lines on the new ig
album, and just my observations in general.  i don't know anyone who
(i know) is gay, so i really don't have anyone to talk to about this,
and i don't want to bring it up to my parents, etc., until i'm a
little more sure of how i feel.  if anyone has any advice, i'd really
appreciate it.  thanks.

elizabeth

p.s.  other than the infamous "gaydar," how do you ever know who to
approach, etc.?  i'm beginning to agree with whoever said that this
world is all targeted to heterosexuals.  aggghh...i think my brain is
going to explode with all these questions! :(

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=========================================================================
date: sat, 10 may 1997 00:39:44 -0500
reply-to: the webchick <webwiz@dfwmm.net>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: the webchick <webwiz@dfwmm.net>
subject: screensaver update:
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

i now have a volunteer who has plenty of webspace for distributing the
screensavers, so that hurdle has been tackled.

although i did mention in a prior post that i received "buttloads of
e-mail", only a couple had any direct "contributions." i mostly got
questions about availability (issue addressed above) and answers to my
concert date question (i now know about dallas dates... thanks!).

i did get a couple of e-mails that sounded like people wanted me to trade a
boot for a screensaver or something... i'm making these things for free....
i don't intend on making profit from making them... quite frankly, that
would probably be pretty illegal. i will only distribute them to people on
the list (only people on the list will be given the address to the website
where the screensavers will be). if record stores get busted for carrying
boots they didn't even make, i sure don't want to get in any kind of legal
hassle for using igs images/music/whatever in a project that gets passed
along all over the internet & newsgroups.

i have received one response from someone who can create a spinning ig logo
via 3d rendering.

i do have an art degree, but i'd appreciate some art direction from fellow
ig fans... any ideas/suggestions concerning imagery/music/animation, etc.

remember, i will be able to create identical screensavers for mac &
windoze... and they don't have to be slide show stuff like the shareware
programs out there... i can also incorporate quicktime movies. i don't
have an av card on my mac (i plan on getting one in the future, but they
cost around $700) right now, so i can't hook up a camcorder or vcr to my
computer to convert a video to quicktime, but if anyone has that capability
or already has access to a quicktime movie w/ the igs, please e-mail me.

your suggestions/ideas are more than welcomed... they are encouraged....
feel free to post to the list so that creative juices can start flowing,
but please cc: me so that i'll be sure to read it... i don't always have
time to read all the messages posted nightly.

-shelley

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=========================================================================
date: sat, 10 may 1997 00:52:12 -0500
reply-to: the webchick <webwiz@dfwmm.net>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: the webchick <webwiz@dfwmm.net>
subject: e-mail list info(nigc...sortof)
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

i apologize if this has been posted before... i got this off a bbs i
belong to... this is officially my first ever nigc post. i didn't
author any of this... don't know who wrote it originally.

enjoy!

=========cut here=========

q: how many internet mail list subscribers does it take

to change a light bulb?

a: 1,331:

1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail

list that the light bulb has been changed

14 to share similar experiences of changing light

bulbs and how the light bulb could have been

changed differently.

7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.

27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about

changing light bulbs.

53 to flame the spell checkers

156 to write to the list administrator complaining about

the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness

to this mail list.

41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames.

109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and

to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb

203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar,

alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing

light bulbs be stopped.

111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we

are all use light bulbs and therefore the posts

**are** relevant to this mail list.

306 to debate which method of changing light

bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs,

what brand of light bulbs work best for this

technique, and what brands are faulty.

27 to post urls where one can see examples of

different light bulbs

14 to post that the urls were posted incorrectly, and

to post corrected urls.

3 to post about links they found from the urls that

are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs

relevant to this list.

33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote

them including all headers and footers, and then

add "me too."

12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing

because they cannot handle the light bulb

controversey.

19 to quote the "me too's" to say, "me three."

4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb faq.

1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup.

47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion

was meant for, leave it here.

143 votes for alt.lite.bulb.

- original source unknown

p.s. i notice that the author didn't mention the 56 people to

mail "how do i get off this $%&@ mailing list????" to the

entire list, or the 32 people using netscape or microsoft

products that belch binary attachments into everything they

send.

i know what that's like. i am currently sorting out such questions.
for example, my absentee mother called me a few weeks ago. why did i
give her my number? next semester i won't do that. i hate it when
she calls. every once in a blue moon. she had the nerve to ask me if
i'm dating, that's none of her concern. i made the stupid mistake of
telling her, when she does not know me very well of telling her i
might be bisexual and she has the nerve to start talking to me about
sodom and gamarra! how irratating. i was upset for most of the day.
jan, my cousellor paid me to clean her floor, which wasn't bad. she
has a real cute dog. she's also gay. i'm way off topic. anyways,
over the last few days i have been considering the same thing. i seem
to find both males and females atractive, but mostly females...
this is interesting. i just took up a lot of space with my rambling
sorry. how can i be sure though when i don't date or anything?

i notice that lots of you are signing off the list and saying goodbye for the
summer.  i just wanted to mention an option that may work for some.  if you
have an aol account at home or know someone who does, you can use a program
called commnet to telnet into your uni acct.  there is a version specific to
aol called cnetaolr.zip.  it works great.

i started using it because all of the dial-up lines would be busy, but even
if you live 1/2 way across the country it should still get you into your
account with no ld charge.

also, there is a more generic version, but i can't personally attest to it's
effectiveness.

kathy

i just watched the girls on cnn. it was great, except for the fact that
they cut their song, "shame on you" off, near the end. that wasn't good.
emily had a rage against the machine t-shirt on... it was neat!!
kira.

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=========================================================================
date: sat, 10 may 1997 05:03:38 -0400
reply-to: cec8@cornell.edu
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: colleen caffrey <cec8@cornell.edu>
subject: gotm q (amy?) and jcs musings
in-reply-to: <v01530500af992dab48da@[129.105.186.181]>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

this is in response to greg flamer who was the most recent person to ask
the question: who's singing "i'm gonna love you good and strong" in that
part in gotm where em's busy singing other stuff and amy clearly finished
the line with "while our love is good and young. (i hope that's specific
enough, i somehow lost the post in which greg asked the question.)

this has been kicked around a bit but i don't think ther was ever a
consensus reached. so here's my take.

i am pretty positive it's amy for a number of reasons:
   1.) it would be a little odd to split that line in half
   2.) ig doesn't generally dub in parts to harmonize with themselves (i
can't really think of a single instance off the top of my head.)
   3.)  emily sings that same line elsewhere in the song.  if it were
she, why would it sound different from the other times she sings it?
   4.) while it's unexpectedly high for amy, it's not excessively so and
moreover, it still sounds like her.  besides her range has definitely
expanded in recent years (in both directions)  check out scooter boys and
check out jcs.  listen to the beginning of poor jerusalem and tell me
that line in gotm isn't amy.

which brings me to another thought that has undoubtedly been discussed
before but on the off chance it hasn't - it seems to me jcs was a very
significant musical experience for both a&e. i feel like it definitely
had some stylistic impact on them (though i apologize i can't come up with
specific examples, it's just a general flavor/crude impression sort of
thing.) i also think it had an impact on both the girls' voices. as i
said, amy's range seems to have expanded in both directions and emily's
sounds somehow stronger, clearer (not a very scholarly description, i
know) i also don't know how much of that is specifically from having
prepared and done jcs but my guess is it was at least partially
responsible.

-colleen

here's a thought..
perhaps it is easier to play the guitar with your strumming hand's sleeve
rolled up, as to keep it clear of strings etc.. maybe it's just that simple,
no political statement, no shame, just the fact that it is easier to play
that way.

i was reading the washington post weekend edition yesterday afternoon and
noticed that ig's cd shaming of the sun is listed as the 7th best selling cd
in the dc area!! i'm not sure where it's at on the charts nationally, but it
sure is hot here in dc...despite the lack of airplay by any of the radio
stations in the area!!

ursula

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=========================================================================
date: sat, 10 may 1997 07:20:46 -0400
reply-to: cec8@cornell.edu
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: colleen caffrey <cec8@cornell.edu>
subject: community on the list (nigc)
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

in all the ellen discussion here on the ig list, the subsequent backlash
about appropriate topics of conversation, and the stuff that's turned
nasty, i deleted a lot of messages. in my haste i deleted one which i
really wanted to reply to and which i think is of more general interest
to the list.

someone recently began a message by saying something to the effect of
"there's not a sense of community on this list." i beg to differ.

in the 3-4 months i've been subscribed i've felt there to be a definite
sense of communiy and general good will that displays itself in a number
of ways.

first: there are the specifically ig related things.  among them, are the
people who unselfishly give there time to participate in boot trees,
frquently without any trade in return.  then there are those who
disseminate information about upcoming ig events.  also, the folks who
work on guitar tabs and kindly distribute them to the list, people who
have provided rides to ig concerts and even places to stay, and then of
course list gatherings!

then, how about the way this list pulled together for the hte
donation for amy's birthday.

secondly: beyond the specifically ig related, i've seen encouragement and
support for all kinds of artistic endeavors - musical, written, and
otherwise.

i've seen people help students out with various kinds of research in ways
such as simply pointing out various information sources to participating
in questionairres.

i've also seen people here support one another in times of personal
crisis. while this has frequently tended to be stuff related to issues of
homophobia/heterosexism (understandable given the demographics of the
list), it's certainly not limited to that. i've also seen sympathy and
support offered to people facing surgery, the death of a pet, or the
death of a family member.

there are also those who post for the sake of interupting and hopefully
ending arguments that have tuned nasty. as i see it, that's not about
control as someone suggested, it's abou putting things in perspective and
trying to re-establish a generally friendly tone on the list. (as well
as reduce off topic material.)

ther are also those who do things just to bring smiles to the faces of
others. everything from annonymously mailing people tapes and magazine
articles to april fool's jokes to the recent dgtgag parody courtesy of
anna creeh and suzy b.

so yes, i think there's a sense of community on this list.  sure there
are differences of opinion and yes, sometimes those differences turn
nasty.  but there are also tons of really friendly, supportive people
here.  and my feeling is that it's the good stuff that dominates the
overall tone of the list.  perhaps my impresion is biased by my selective
reading of messages.  if that's the case, so be it.  judicious use of the
delete key (and i know you all have one) goes a long way.

-colleen

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=========================================================================
date: sat, 10 may 1997 07:27:12 -0400
reply-to: susan and jocelyn <teddie@mindspring.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: susan and jocelyn <teddie@mindspring.com>
subject: re: the covering of arms
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

that is the deal. throughout the years of seeing ig play, amy, when wearing
a long-sleeved overshirt, inevitably rolls up the strumming arm (right) and
leaves the other (left) arm rolled down. in fact, most guitarists i listen
to/watch do the same. i am learning the guitar and i even do it.

when i used to ride a bike, i tucked my pant cuffs into my boots, too. i
always thought those little cuff clips were way too *queer to use. ;-)

does anyone besides me remember those? my gf (a young 27) just looked at me
like i was crazy. pant cuff clips? anyone?

sigh.

susan

* i am using the word queer here to mean odd. however, as a lesbian, i have
special permission from the high council of gays/lesbians/etcetera to bandy
about the gay lingo as i see fit. i name it and claim it! ;-)

btw, the above is a joke! well, some of it, anyway.
at 05:53 am 5/10/97 -0400, elizabeth deschesne wrote:
>here's a thought..
>perhaps it is easier to play the guitar with your strumming hand's sleeve
>rolled up, as to keep it clear of strings etc.. maybe it's just that simple,
>no political statement, no shame, just the fact that it is easier to play
>that way.
>
>e
>
>--
>administrative requests should not be sent to the list!
>to unsubscribe, send email to listserv@netspace.org
> with the line: signoff indigo-girls
>

i think we have a sense of a true community here in two ways :

1. we are similar in some beliefs, we share, we accept other
differences (to a certain point - ahem, *thinking of poul).

2. we make private friendships outside of the list with other list
members.

what i mean by this is that, at least for me, after putting messages
on the list, i began to get private e-mail from some people who were
also list members. although i did not keep sending mail to all of them (and
them to me), i did start to get regular correspondance from some,
and from that friendships grew. i think that is part of what gives
this list a true sense of community.

sorry for rambiling,

john.

"i'm going to clear my head, i'm going to drink that sun....."

emily, get out the map.

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=========================================================================
date: sat, 10 may 1997 09:58:18 -0400
reply-to: "joan m. cyr" <jcyr@mit.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "joan m. cyr" <jcyr@mit.edu>
subject: re: all the ellen posts and some choice words about sexuality
 (nigc)
x-to: lost kitty <noone@home.org>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

at 02:47 am 5/10/97 gmt, you wrote:

>did it hurt andrew? was it painful for you falling out of heaven?

ok, what was that? :o(

that statement has no value except to be nasty...and its really unnessary.
i'm all for equal time for everyone's opinion, regardless of whether or not
i agree with it. but cutting nasty remarks have no place here and frankly
make the readers go on the defensive and not pay attention to what you are
trying to say...which is what your intention is in the first place, isn't
it? you want to be heard, right? then say what you have to say in a
civilized way.

if you want to discuss this further, feel free to email me privately.....ok?

joni :o)
======================================

"i may not agree with what you are saying, but i'll defend to the death your
right to say it" (or something like that) (and that includes you too,
lost kitty...)
- who knows....

"can't we all just get along?"
- rodney king

"i'm getting too old for this shit."
- danny glover (in 'lethal weapon')
- joni cyr (everytime she writes one of these posts)

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=========================================================================
date: sat, 10 may 1997 16:03:34 +0100
reply-to: bonj1_95@worc.ac.uk
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: john bond <bonj1_95@worc.ac.uk>
organization: worcester college of higher edu.
subject: some stuff i've just been thinking about (some igc)

just thinking about two things (i don't know whether they've been
mentioned before) :

1. one thing : if we're going to flame somebody, can we please do it
privately - i know that, as a sort-of community, we're supposed to
have our disagreements, but at least we should try to keep it
private to avoid upsetting others on the list who aren't involved in
the argument.

2. on a more stupid note, is it just me, or have others noticed that
when people say they're delurking, it sounds like decloaking in star
trek ("listee delurking off the port bow").....

just a few thoughts,

john.

"i'm going to clear my head, i'm going to drink that sun....."

emily, get out the map.

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=========================================================================
date: sat, 10 may 1997 22:03:05 +0800
reply-to: siti <skunky@post1.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: siti <skunky@post1.com>
subject: info needed abt 4.5 cd
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="----=_nextpart_000_01bc5d8d.efbdda60"
content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

this is a multi-part message in mime format.

------=_nextpart_000_01bc5d8d.efbdda60
content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

first of all, thanks to all those who e-mailed me regarding the hte cd...i
have already placed a special order for it at hmv singapore and it should
reach me in abt 3 weeks...or so...

next, i would like to know if the ig cd entitled 4.5 is worth putting a
special order for..i've read a few reviews on the ig site and i was under
the impression that it was not a very well done compilation..so could those
people who have the cd let me know whether it is good...i've already placed
an order for it but if i get negative reviews, i would consider cancelling
the order and saving myself $30... : ) ... so could you please let me know
within the next couple of days...private e-mail of course.

thanks y'all.

siti

------=_nextpart_000_01bc5d8d.efbdda60
content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body bgcolor=3d"#ffffff">first of all, thanks to all =
those who e-mailed me regarding the hte cd...i have already placed a =
special order for it at hmv singapore and it should reach me in abt 3 =
weeks...or so... next, i would like to know if the ig cd entitled =
4.5 is worth putting a special order for..i've read a few reviews on the =
ig site and i was under the impression that it was not a very well done =
compilation..so could those people who have the cd let me know whether =
it is good...i've already placed an order for it but if i get negative =
reviews, i would consider cancelling the order and saving myself $30... =
: ) ... so could you please let me know within the next couple of =
days...private e-mail of course. thanks =
y'all. siti 
</body></html>
------=_nextpart_000_01bc5d8d.efbdda60--

courtesy of my very cool guitar teacher (even if he didn't believe that amy
and emily played all the guitar/banjo on the song) are the cords and some
approximations of a few lead banjo things.
i'm not sure if someone posted these already, so i'll type em up anyway:

e-v-------------l--------------------------5---l-v---------------l-----5---3--
--2---0-----------0----
b---o----------l--------------------------2---l---o-------------l-------------
-----------2=3---------
g------c-------l----------2---------2--------l------c----------l--------------
-------------------------2-
d---------a----l--0=2-----------2-----------l--------a--------l---------------
--------------------
a------------l--l---------------0--------------l------------l------l--0---0---
0------------------------
e---------------l------------------------------l-------------------l----------
-------------------------

don't even ask about the rhythms - i've never written tab before, and
generally don't like it. sorry if its messy

there's two chords per measure except the d whole note and e half note at the
end of the chorus, and the last mesure before the chorus has strumming for
three beats and then a rest
i'm not sure about any of the banjo lead parts, or the bm chord in the chorus
(then again i couldn't have transcribed it myself anyway)

a                 d           a            a
the saddest sight my eyes can see
          e             e                   d                   d
is that big ball of orange sinking slyly down the trees
a                       d                     a                  a
sittin in a broken circle while you rest upon my knee
      b7       b7                           e             e
this perfect moment will soon be leaving me
a                           d                          a                   a
suzanne calls from boston the coffee's hot the corn is high
              e                   e                             d
                          d
and that same sun that warms your heart will suck the good earth dry
        a                  d               a                       a
with everything it's opposite enough to keep you crying
    b7                        b7                  e                 e       e
or keep this old world spinning with a twinkle in its eye
                 a                      d
get out the map get out the map
                          a                     a
and lay your your finger anywhere down
                      a             bm                          e
             e
we'll leave the figuring to those we pass on our way out of town
                     a               d                                 a
             a
don't drink the water there seems to be something ailing everyone
               a            bm                 a            a7
i'm gonna clear my head i'm gonna drink that sun
               d                                                e
i'm gonna love you good and strong while our love is good and young

(1/2capo 2nd fret)
e--5---------4-------2---------------------------------------------------0----
--------------------------
b-----2--------2-------2------5--------3--------2--------0------------2-------
------------------------------
g--------2--------2-------2------2--------2--------2--------1---------2-------
-------------------------------
d--------------------------------------2-------2--------2---------2-----2-----
------------------------
a--0----------------------------------------------------------------------0---
-----------------------
e-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------

west of bishes
shana (jak)

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=========================================================================
date: sat, 10 may 1997 15:35:29 +0100
reply-to: indigo jo <mts5@aber.ac.uk>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: indigo jo <mts5@aber.ac.uk>
subject: re: info needed abt 4.5 cd
x-to: siti <skunky@post1.com>
in-reply-to: <199705101404.waa30923@melati.singnet.com.sg>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="----=_nextpart_000_01bc5d8d.efbdda60"

------=_nextpart_000_01bc5d8d.efbdda60
content-id: <pine.osf.3.95.970510152818.18238d@osfb.aber.ac.uk>
content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

on sat, 10 may 1997, siti wrote:

> next, i would like to know if the ig cd entitled 4.5 is worth putting a
> special order for..i've read a few reviews on the ig site and i was under
> the impression that it was not a very well done compilation..so could those
> people who have the cd let me know whether it is good...i've already placed
> an order for it but if i get negative reviews, i would consider cancelling
> the order and saving myself $30... : ) ... so could you please let me know
> within the next couple of days...private e-mail of course.

my advice to anyone contemplating getting this compilation, particularly
in the usa, is quite simply:  don't bother.   it *is* very badly-done -
for instance, the song information was taken straight off the credits for
the albums, which means that for songs of the 1989 album, where only the
guests were credited, amy and emily don't get credit for playing and
singing.   and worse still, on some copies of that album when you open up
the inlay book you'll find the information for a cypress hill album!
also the songs are all taken from the ig, nis, rop and so albums - it's
*all* previously-released material, with none even from sf and botby or
from the uk tour in late 1994 from which they originally intended to take
material, so if you already have those four albums, you're getting nothing
new.   all the compilation was intended for is to cash in on the girls'
appearance at glastonbury in 1995, and i suppose it makes a reasonable
introduction for anyone not familiar with the igs' music.   if you've
already got those albums, i'd ring up pretty quick and cancel that order.

mat

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| matthew j smith        \ "[the priest] said that if you have to work |
| mts5@aber.ac.uk         \   for anyone, an absentee boss is best."   |
| indigojo@freenet.hut.fi  \     - jeannette winterson, "the passion"  |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
|    billy bragg / indigo girls info:  http://www.aber.ac.uk/~mts5/    |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
adverts and junkmail will be read for 500 pounds sterling per item;
sending such email to me constitutes agreement to pay for the priviledge
of my attention.

------=_nextpart_000_01bc5d8d.efbdda60
content-id: <pine.osf.3.95.970510152818.18238e@osfb.aber.ac.uk>
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hi -

i really need two more branches for the rosie/letterman/me/ellen video!
pleeeaaassse . . . if you can!  you won't have tons and tons of tapes to
make, i swear!  but if i can't find two more branches the people who
vollenteered (sp?) as of now are gonig to be burried!  just two more people
and everything will be easier for everyone!

i'm on my hands and knees!!!! please help out if you can!!! you would have
less than ten tapes, definately! probably only 6 copies to make. that's not
that bad, believe me.

just please help if you can!

thanks!

-elizabeth

* * * * * * * * * * *
"they're gonna have to take back her toaster oven . . ."

http://members.aol.com/wishmonstr/ewebpg.htm
* * * * * * * * * *

hey all:

i don't know if this has been posted yet.  you can find info. on the
confirmed lilith fair dates and when tickets go on sale at
www.lilithfair.com/.  there is also info. on all the artists that are going
to play.  i couldn't find confirmation on which dates the igs will be
participating though.  if anyone has dates for the igs, please e-mail me.

"thanks y'all"

dawn

for all you ig trivia buffs out there....

when was the very last concert at which
ig performed crazy game?

could someone e-mail me privately with
this answer?

lisa
lschreihart@juno.com

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date: sat, 10 may 1997 15:48:02 gmt
reply-to: lost kitty <noone@home.org>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: lost kitty <noone@home.org>
subject: re: all the ellen posts and some choice words about sexuality
 (nigc)
in-reply-to: <2.2.32.19970510135818.0068a734@po7.mit.edu>
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on sat, 10 may 1997 09:58:18 -0400, you wrote:

>at 02:47 am 5/10/97 gmt, you wrote:
>
>>did it hurt andrew? was it painful for you falling out of heaven?
>
>ok, what was that?  :o(
>
>that statement has no value except to be nasty...and its really unnessary.
>i'm all for equal time for everyone's opinion, regardless of whether or not
>i agree with it.  but cutting nasty remarks have no place here and frankly
>make the readers go on the defensive and not pay attention to what you are
>trying to say...which is what your intention is in the first place, isn't
>it?  you want to be heard, right?   then say what you have to say in a
>civilized way.
>
>if you want to discuss this further, feel free to email me privately.....ok?
>
>joni  :o)
your right joni, i must apologize for the remark. i had thought it
would come across as sarcastic humor but based on your reaction i see
i've made a mistake. i'll try to be more sensitive in the future.
now would you and andrew please blow me...oops typing touretts
again...

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date: sat, 10 may 1997 09:31:43 -0700
reply-to: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
subject: don't give that girl a gund:-)
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hey all...
my totally hyper "creativity" came back to haunt me yesterday, all cause
when i first heard dgtgag i messed with the lyrics :-)...
i was in the mall here + stumbled across an adorable stuffed eeyore +
thought i might just buy it for a very good friend of mine who's name will
remain anonymous ( trace ) who has an affinity for the poor "nobody listens
to me anyways" fellow.... but then i turned it over + looked at the price
tag.... yoiks!!!! <choking + sputtering...> no wonder tho... i checked the
label + the thing was a gund... sigh... so for the rest of the afternoon, i
had amy reminding me that no matter how much i wanted to buy that sucker, i
couldn't afford to....
"i said now, don't... don't give that girl a gund..."
tsssk:-)...
i swear i'll never mess with an ig song again, i swear.... no matter *how*
much i wanna sing "burn all the fetters" as a women's lib protest
kinda-song, i will not mess with those lyrics.
achem... anyways...
anyone else do this; assign silly words to yer favorite songs + from then +
ever after be stuck singing the *wrong* words?
peace all... kim ( who is off to the beach today... we's got property +
needs ta build a picnic table.... woo hoo... good friends, rum by a camp
fire + a setting sun to watch... heaven )
ps... kim in couver + trace... i'll tap atcha later. i'm negligent, i
know... but in that you understand, i'm confident:-)
*********************************************************
with every lesson learned a line upon your beautiful face,
we'll amuse ourselves one day with these memories we'll
trace... emily saliers
**********************************************************

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date: sat, 10 may 1997 09:41:39 -0700
reply-to: hooligan <emjay@netcom.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: hooligan <emjay@netcom.com>
subject: re: all the ellen posts and some choice words about sexuality
 (nigc)
x-to: lost kitty <noone@home.org>
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return-path: <owner-indigo-girls@netspace.org>
received: from iglou2 (exim@iglou2.iglou.com [192.107.41.17]) by netspace.org
(8.8.5/8.8.2) with smtp id laa27882 for
received: from cin-2-1.iglou.net [199.170.84.52] by iglou2 with smtp

[iglou.com]
login name: paulw in real life: paul wehner
directory: /home2/paulw shell: /bin/ksh
last login mon apr 28 21:06 on pts/182 from cin-4-9.iglou.ne
no plan.

oh look pouls' back!

and the ever-so-clever one is sending fakemail from an alias. *tsk* *tsk*
*tsk* something happen to your iglou account, paul wehner?? whatta
pathetic little coward you are.

your pal,
mj.

on sat, 10 may 1997, lost kitty, er paul wehner or is it
paulw@iglou.com !?! wrote:

> on sat, 10 may 1997 09:58:18 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >at 02:47 am 5/10/97 gmt, you wrote:
> >
> >>did it hurt andrew? was it painful for you falling out of heaven?
> >
> >ok, what was that?  :o(
> >
> >that statement has no value except to be nasty...and its really unnessary.
> >i'm all for equal time for everyone's opinion, regardless of whether or not
> >i agree with it.  but cutting nasty remarks have no place here and frankly
> >make the readers go on the defensive and not pay attention to what you are
> >trying to say...which is what your intention is in the first place, isn't
> >it?  you want to be heard, right?   then say what you have to say in a
> >civilized way.
> >
> >if you want to discuss this further, feel free to email me privately.....ok?
> >
> >joni  :o)
> your right joni, i must apologize for the remark. i had thought it
> would come across as sarcastic humor but based on your reaction i see
> i've made a mistake. i'll try to be more sensitive in the future.
> now would you and andrew please blow me...oops typing touretts
> again...
>

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date: sat, 10 may 1997 16:53:54 gmt
reply-to: lost kitty <noone@home.org>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: lost kitty <noone@home.org>
subject: re: all the ellen posts and some choice words about sexuality
 (nigc)
x-to: hooligan <emjay@netcom.com>
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on sat, 10 may 1997 09:41:39 -0700, you wrote:

>return-path: <owner-indigo-girls@netspace.org>
>received: from iglou2 (exim@iglou2.iglou.com [192.107.41.17]) by netspace.org
> (8.8.5/8.8.2) with smtp id laa27882 for
>received: from cin-2-1.iglou.net [199.170.84.52] by iglou2 with smtp
>
>[iglou.com]
>login name: paulw in real life: paul wehner
>directory: /home2/paulw shell: /bin/ksh
>last login mon apr 28 21:06 on pts/182 from cin-4-9.iglou.ne
>no plan.
>
>oh look pouls' back!
>
>and the ever-so-clever one is sending fakemail from an alias. *tsk* *tsk*
>*tsk* something happen to your iglou account, paul wehner?? whatta
>pathetic little coward you are.
>
>your pal,
> mj.
>
>
oh i'm sorry you can blow me too-feel better now??

in a message dated 97-05-10 03:23:35 edt, emily/amy writes, but apparently
this was actually a topic of discussion but i never get the original posts
first because ...i don't know why, but it's lame ...ahem.....:

<< after watching cnn, this is like the 3rd time in as many tv sightings that
i
have noticed amy covering her arms. some people before wondered why she was
>>

sometimes i roll my sleaves up, sometimes i don't.
nobody ever wonders why.

:)
love meeeeeeee, love my bunnybutt.

hi everybody!  we just watched the cnn performance for the bazillionth time
and we've been obsessed with the little details, like when amy says, "hi how
are ya" without moving her lips, through clenched teeth....and how she asks
emily if she was bad in the interview....emily's smile, of course....we
thought it "funny" how they panned away when it was time for amy to use the f
word ;(  they both seemed to be having fun....we loved the way amy smiles
when she gets to the line, "when the beautiful ladies walk right by, you
know, i never know what to say..."   too bad cnn had to play credits during
their performance and that they were cut off before the song ended :(

on another ecstatic note, we bought our tickets to the seattle july 13th
show!!!!!!!!!!!! we got up early to get the tickets,only to get an almost
constant busy signal and then a recording that they weren't open
yet...anyway, we're driving to seattle from nevada, through boise, so if
there are any other list members from this area who want to hitch a ride, let
us know!!

gettin' out the map,
rachel & chris :)))))))))))))))))

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date: sat, 10 may 1997 11:40:54 -0700
reply-to: kristina <andrade@az.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: kristina <andrade@az.com>
subject: re: don't give that girl a gund:-)
in-reply-to: <199705101631.jaa31652@prcn.org>
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---------------------------------------------------------

she's got a case full of 'em
sent to calm her fears
and the voices in her nightmares
ringing in her ears
she's not satisfied anymore
can't say i didn't try
when i say "here's another gund"
she don't hear me anymore

don't give that girl a gund
she's already got one (thousand)

i made a bad decision
called qvc, ordered a batch
had them home delivered, she's gonna send 'em all back
how my heart did fall, but i swear she cracked a smile
i can't think of what else to send her
my favorite was the green crocodile

hold the first gund bear it'll be real cuddly
it's your gift, soft and snuggly
hold the second gund bear it'll be real cool
it's yours too

don't give that girl a gund
she's already got one (thousand)

i said now hold it closer
can you feel something good happening
she said "don't send me another, another gund again."

don't give that girl a gund

---------------------------------------------------------

(i didn't write this, my cat did!)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
i come to you andrade@az.com
with strange fire http://www.az.com/~andrade
-------------------------------------------------------------------

with all due respect, i disagree that this album is badly done.  when i
first saw it in the store, i figured that it would be a waste of money
because i already had the same songs from the studio albums.  last
year, i lost myself in the lifeblood ig archives and read some good
reviews of 4.5.  one reviewer even said that the sound quality on this
disc was better than on the original albums, so i decided that i had to
get it and see for myself.  sure enough, he was right - i'll be damned
if everything doesn't sound clearer and more present, especially the
guitars.  i have no idea why - maybe the tracks were re-mastered for
4.5?  at any rate, even if the inlays were messed up on some copies
(they weren't on mine), if you can afford it, i feel that the superior
sound quality of this album makes it worth owning.

peace,
fran e.

mat wrote:
>my advice to anyone contemplating getting this compilation, particularly
>in the usa, is quite simply:  don't bother.   it *is* very badly-done -
>for instance, the song information was taken straight off the credits
for
>the albums, which means that for songs of the 1989 album, where only the
>guests were credited, amy and emily don't get credit for playing and
>singing.   and worse still, on some copies of that album when you open
up
>the inlay book you'll find the information for a cypress hill album!
>also the songs are all taken from the ig, nis, rop and so albums - it's
>*all* previously-released material, with none even from sf and botby or
>from the uk tour in late 1994 from which they originally intended to
take
>material, so if you already have those four albums, you're getting
nothing
>new.   all the compilation was intended for is to cash in on the girls'
>appearance at glastonbury in 1995, and i suppose it makes a reasonable
>introduction for anyone not familiar with the igs' music.   if you've
>already got those albums, i'd ring up pretty quick and cancel that
order.

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date: sat, 10 may 1997 12:33:39 -0700
reply-to: allison fraiberg <edgy@primenet.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: allison fraiberg <edgy@primenet.com>
subject: nigc: tina turner ticket
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sorry for the lack of ig content, but i have a ticket to the tina turner
show at the greek here in los angeles for tuesday, may 13. i just realized
that i have to teach that night and need to sell the ticket. face value,
of course. anyone interested? email me privately.

allison
edgy@primenet.com

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date: sat, 10 may 1997 13:00:48 -0700
reply-to: verdi@imap2.asu.edu
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: verdi@imap2.asu.edu
subject: re: the f-word:-)
x-to: tricia becker <justmekick@aol.com>
in-reply-to: <970509215456_220031782@emout08.mail.aol.com>
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oh geez,
i honestly hope having someone curse on an album is the worst thing
that ever happens in you're life. i hope i'm not offending you by saying
this but please care about something important.
ben

in a message dated 97-05-10 14:58:55 edt, someone wrote:

<< oh i'm sorry you can blow me too-feel better now?? >>

grandma ????
is that you ?

come home, we miss you !

your loving family

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date: sat, 10 may 1997 16:03:06 -0400
reply-to: wishmonstr@aol.com
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "elizabeth m. bolles" <wishmonstr@aol.com>
subject: i know what milagro is and your help is no longer desperately
 needed

thank you to everyone who said they could be a branch! i'll be in touch
shortly . . . everyone else, you can stop e-mailing me now. =)

did i ever tell you all that milagro is a girl's name? well, it is. maybe
you already knew that . . . i've been sort of delete happy lately.

ok, off to real work.

-elizabeth

* * * * * * * * * * *
"moms, moms, moms! why do i love moms so much?!" - my 6 year old sister

http://members.aol.com/wishmonstr/ewebpg.htm
* * * * * * * * * *

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date: sat, 10 may 1997 13:15:28 -0700
reply-to: verdi@imap2.asu.edu
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: verdi@imap2.asu.edu
subject: ellen ratings
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does anyone know what "ellens" coming out epsiode ratings were.
ben

enough is enough with the flammage!! perhaps the next ig album should be
entitled "the flaming of the sun". the girls can ridicule and taunt
those that don't deserve it. like so many of us love to do here. = )

-liz- (who is waiting for that great grrl kristen to come out of hiding
and paint the ceiling beige again..it worked so well last time!)

"sticks and stones may break my bones but if you call me a name i'll kick
your teeth in." - my 10 year old cousin jessica -

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date: sat, 10 may 1997 17:15:24 -0700
reply-to: david bacharach <bf19583@binghamton.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: david bacharach <bf19583@binghamton.edu>
subject: 4.5
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since other people have posted to the list i figure i'd post my response to
siti:
i have 4.5 and i bought it at a regular record store (i think it was tower
records) for the price of an average cd. i have every ig cd released by the
ig on epic so i had to have it! as for 'is it good?'-well, basically its a
"mix" cd. it includes different tracks from their other albums, unaltered i
think. basically, if you have all the other cds you could theoretically make
your own 4.5. for me, like i said, it was a matter of having everything
they've released. also, its interesting to see what songs their people chose
to put on this cd because as i understand, it was meant to introduce foreign
fans with the ig. (the sticker on the cd says " the best of the ig, 15 songs
including closer to fine, features rem, jackson browne, david crosby, mary
chapin carpenter, 'a tasteful indulgence'-melody maker 'a true delight not
to be missed'-billboard ") i think its good because sometimes i'm in the
mood for a whole bunch of different ig songs. i hope this helps.
-dave

hey everyone,
did anyone else get tickets today? how were the seats?

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date: sat, 10 may 1997 17:56:07 -0700
reply-to: david bacharach <bf19583@binghamton.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: david bacharach <bf19583@binghamton.edu>
subject: ig on the radio!!!
mime-version: 1.0
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okay i know at this point almost everyone has heard the ig on the radio but
not me so i am a little psyched and wanted to share. about an hour ago they
said "coming up next, new music from the spice girls, indigo girls and ????"
at that point i lost all concentration and ran over to the radio to crank it
up. so it took them an hour but they finally played shame on you with the
fuckin up part muted. the guy introduved it by saying 'here are the ig
making a comeback(?) with shame on you" and when it was over he was like
"that was the ig who seem to be evrywhere on the tv shows, at least lately".
and that was it. i'm sure they were finally put on the radio because they
made the top ten nationally for shaming of the sun. btw, this happened on
star 105.7 up here in binghamton ny. i am here during the year for college
and basically, for you nyc folks, 105.7 is like z100. which makes me wonder
if z100 are/will play the girls. i will be home in a few days so i guess
i'll find out soon enough. anyway, just had to share!
later igoers-dave

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date: sat, 10 may 1997 17:51:10 -0500
reply-to: "the lover of music." <thie0080@tc.umn.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "the lover of music." <thie0080@tc.umn.edu>
subject: (nigc) lilith question
mime-version: 1.0
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just wondering if anyone has inside info on lilith fair. they havn't
posted the acts for the 8-20 show in shakopee, mn, but i need to know if
ig will be there. if not, i'll have to get tix for milwacky(too late for
the good ones by now, but it's better than nothing.)

please respond privately. thanks.

.eric

thanks to all who responded to me about the date
of the last crazy game concert performance. there
was general agreement that the last one was 5/4/96.

i just got lilith fair tickets for the aug. 19 milwaukee
performance.  they went on sale today at noon.  i
got mine at 12:03, behind only one person who was
getting tickets for something else.  the best i could get
is sec. 1 row v (23rd row).  geez, i suppose with 4 headliners
(shawn colvin, ig, sarah mclachlan, and jewel), the
show sold 4 times faster than a normal ig show.  it sure
did seem like it.  did anyone on this list fare any better?

is section 1 at the marcus amphitheater
in milwaukee left, center, or right? the writing on the
www ticketmaster seating chart isn't readable.

please e-mail me privately with responses.

lisa
lschreihart@juno.com

toally un-ig related, and i do apologize for the lack of igc. however, i
am at a loss for some chords. does anyone out there know the chords for
the sister hazel song that's on the radio all the time? "it's hard to say
what it is i see in you, wondered if i'll always be with you..." etc etc..

if anyone could help me out, i would so appreciate it!

-liz-

i'm leavign this discussion group. i already get enough sarah mclachlin
mail. good bye.

in a message dated 97-05-10 10:23:42 edt, you write:

<< i'm not sure if someone posted these already, so i'll type em up anyway:
>>

shana, thank you!!! we're still trying to figure how to dance to banjo
music!!!

chris & rachel :)))))

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 11:49:16 +1000
reply-to: sandy indlekofer-o'sullivan <sandy@uow.edu.au>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: sandy indlekofer-o'sullivan <sandy@uow.edu.au>
subject: the album shaming of the sun
mime-version: 1.0
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sorry about this - i have been having a look around on the net trying to
find the
answer without bothering you all about it.

i live in australia in a smaller town and i was wondering if there was any
info on whether the album has been released here or not. i have been
checking the local records stores - but found nothing so far.

any advice?

thanks and this is my first post - so i hope i am doing all the right
things.

regards,
sandy

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date: sat, 10 may 1997 23:08:44 -0400
reply-to: christine m housel <chousel@grove.ufl.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
comments: xaa10006 on willow (hop 0), sat, 10 may 1997 23:08:44 -0400 (edt)
from: christine m housel <chousel@grove.ufl.edu>
subject: ig ticket for sale! auburn concert
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

hi y'all!

anyone still need a ticket for the auburn u. ig concert on may 18?

i have one lonely ticket that is looking for a happy owner (wish i could
be that owner, but i can't go...).

the details are below. if you're interested, please e-mail me asap so i
can get it to you by mail (but i also have friends going who could give it
to you personally before the concert). be sure to e-mail me and not the
list, or i won't get your message (i'm not on the list now).

good seats: section 11, row 11, seat 4 in the beard-eaves memeorial
coliseum. see diagram below...sorry it's such a crude computer sketch...

date & time of concert: sunday, may 18, at 8 pm.

price: $12

here's the set-up...supposedly, they are going to be at one end of a
basketball court:

                               *---------------*
                stage -->      *               *
                               *  amy    emily *
                  *------*-----*---------------*
                  *  12  *     * floor (court) *
                  *------*-----*-------*-------*    same seating on
                  *  11 #*     * floor ---->   *        this side
                  *-----#*-----*-------*-------*
                  *  10  *     *  etc. *       *
                  *------*-----*-------*-------*
                        etc.   *       *       *

the seat is in section 11 (row 11, seat 4...general area marked with
##).

please e-mail me (not the list!) if you're interested...address is
chousel@grove.ufl.edu you can also call the number below and leave a
message.

thanks!

christine :)
(352) 376-5339

in a message dated 5/9/97 6:40:10 pm, gflame@nwu.edu (greg flamer) wrote:

<<2:50 e is still finishing up her i'm gonna drink that sun line when a
voice comes in with the beginning of "i'm gonna love you"

2:52 a finishes line beginning with "good and strong til our love is good
and young.

gee, greg, at first i thought that was you tryin ta do yer emily
impersonation! but as it turned out, it's amy. she's going right outta yer
range. ;)

dee

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date: sat, 10 may 1997 23:58:01 +0000
reply-to: dave jackson <jacksond@uoguelph.ca>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
comments: authenticated sender is <jacksond@mailsrv.uoguelph.ca>
from: dave jackson <jacksond@uoguelph.ca>
subject: my personal take on sots
mime-version: 1.0
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hi all!

i love it. i love it. i love it. i love it. wow oh wow. !!!

now to elaborate... :)

i picked up a copy of "shaming of the sun" just yesterday. it was
difficult waiting past the release date, but sufficent lack of funds
prevented me from purchasing the cd on the long awaited day of april
29th. [granted, i had bought a copy of the most incredible film
what's eating gilbert grape the week before. where are my
priorities? <grin>]

i put the cd in my cd player as soon as i got home and immediately
perused the lyrics.  i had only been exposed to "shame on you" (from
david letterman and rosie) as well as "cut it out" from the
scholastic compilation so i was eager to hear the songs you
have been raving about.  :)  the lyrics were soon forgotten however,
as i sat in disbelief at the stark electric guitar present on so many
tunes.  song after song was filled with drum beats and, uh, the volume
level seemed higher than normal.  ;)  at noticing the arrival of an
emily song i would get ready to enjoy a lovely, heartwrenching
ballad, but 'twas not to be.  boy, did they fool me!  *wink*  upon first
listen, i was tempted to cry "where are the girls?"  did anyone else
have a similar knee-jerk reaction?

but then a funny thing happened...i listened to the album again.  and
i love it.  because i no longer have those preconceptions of what i
_thought_ the album was going to be, i can truly appreciate the album
for what it *is*.  at the end of the last track i noticed something
that i have never felt during another ig album.  i was exhausted.
emotionally spent.  the electric, exuberant joy present in soy, gotm,
and ia made me dance around the room, while the harshness of sb and
cio stirred up the frustrations within me.  and what is there to say
about dgtgag except that i felt someone had reached into my chest,
grabbed my heart and stomped on it?  that is one of the most
tender, vulnerable l songs i have ever heard.

i was precariously close to tears during the last track hkf.  it was as if
amy and emily were saying to the listener, "thanks for coming along while we
shared our intimate feelings.  despite our doubts and sadness we're going
to be okay and so are you."  at least that's how i perceived it.

beautiful. stunning. definitely worth the wait.

sincerely,
lisa j. :)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"she's dying to do something foolish,
to do something crazy, or just get away."

-reba mcentire
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

in a letter dated 5-10 tigger wrote:

>>there could be 115 reasons amy doesn't want her arms visible.<<

so that's what the 115 in sys stands for!! now if we could only figure out
the 17....

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date: sat, 10 may 1997 22:00:17 -0700
reply-to: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
subject: re: the f-word:-)
mime-version: 1.0
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hey ben;
at 01:00 pm 5/10/97 -0700, you wrote:
>oh geez,
>   i honestly hope having someone curse on an album is the worst thing
>that ever happens in you're life.  i hope i'm not offending you by saying
>this but please care about something important.
>ben
lol!!!!!!
if you think that my post was about something i considered important, you
really read it wrong ben my friend:-) it was *just* a post. i was
complaining about not being able to play it 'round my daughter who loves to
sing along with the  girls + loves their stuff... the swearing in no way
offends me, and after the year i just put in with two deaths in the family +
my teen aged son only this past week being hit by a truck on the highway (
he has broken bones but is okay ) believe you me, there are worse things
happening in this mom's life. sigh... it is *okay* for me to wish i could
play soy with my kids in full ear shot... :-) really. my opinions harm no
one, and change nothing... so relax:-)
peace, kim

"that weak feeling you're experiencing is the blood flow
being cut off to your brain. you'll be dead in less than a minute...
or we could talk..."
- xena, warrior princess.

i've been off the list for a few weeks for school-related
reasons.  i remember the list going around and around
about when ig would be on snl.  i thought that may 17 was
the date.  but en vogue is on next week.  did i miss their
appearance?  if not, when is the date?  please e-mail me
privately.

another thing - i just saw jewel on snl a few minutes ago.
wow, that girl can sing! it seems to come very naturally for
her. and she's so young! can't wait to see her at the lilith
fair!

lisa
lschreihart@juno.com

hey,

thanks so much for everyone who responded to my request for a slogan to go on
the hte bumpersticker. here are some of your resonses:

earth - love it or leave it!

forget mom and dad and...honor the earth

help honor the earth

the (or a) path to peace

put (or give) back what you take

honor your mother

global guidance

restore the spirit

speak to your spirit

give thanks

celebrate creation

these are great ideas!!!!!!! i would love to hear more!!!!!! keep them
coming, please :*) and i will keep everyone updated.

peace
pj

maybe we're more than who we think we are. or maybe not. a&e

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 00:41:05 -0500
reply-to: catalyst@prodigy.net
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: catalyst <catalyst@prodigy.net>
organization: prodigy internet
subject: mudd island
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hey
can anyone please tell me if the indigo girls are going
to be at the memphis lilith fair show. this is the closest show
to where i live and i would hate to miss it.
thanks
cindy

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 00:37:51 pst
reply-to: "lisa m. schreihart" <lschreihart@juno.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "lisa m. schreihart" <lschreihart@juno.com>
subject: lilith fair, tinley park, aug. 9 headliners, tracy chapman?

does anyone know who will be headlining at
the lilith fair in tinley park's new world music
theater in il, besides ig and sarah?  i would think
that shawn colvin and jewel would be there
too, since they're all going to be in milwaukee
ten days later.  i've looked at the lilith page on
the internet, but there is no schedule set for that
concert yet.  (it goes on sale may 31.)
i guess the main reason i am asking
this is because i really want to see tracy
chapman this summer, and i see that she has
just been added to the lilith fair line-up.  it looks
like she's playing many of the earlier shows (nowhere
near me).  i hope she makes it out my way.  solo
would be just peachy too.  :)  if you can shed some
light on this, please e-mail me privately.

lisa

p.s. oh my, jewel's quite cute. she did a great job
on snl tonight!

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 02:14:52 -0500
reply-to: the webchick <webwiz@dfwmm.net>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: the webchick <webwiz@dfwmm.net>
subject: screensavers: the project has died
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

hey listees...

sorry to say that the screensaver project has gone the way of the dinosaur.
i have been alerted that programming such a screensaver for distribution is
illegal and can't be put on the list.   it seems like it can't qualify as
free speech, even if it doesn't defame/slander the igs (but rather
celebrates their talent) or gain profit for anyone.  like an idiot, i
bought the sony/epic ig screensaver a couple of years ago... found out
after i opened it that it only worked for windoze and when i tried it on
the windoze machine at work, it messed some other applications up.  i can
do a much better job than they did... but i'm not going to have the chance.
i apologize to those who volunteered their services to the project.

-shel

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 04:28:34 -0600
reply-to: greg flamer <gflame@nwu.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: greg flamer <gflame@nwu.edu>
subject: sots on the charts
mime-version: 1.0
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>i was reading the washington post weekend edition yesterday afternoon and
>noticed that ig's cd shaming of the sun is listed as the 7th best selling cd
>in the dc area!! i'm not sure where it's at on the charts nationally, but it
>sure is hot here in dc

i am not sure if this has been posted but the numbers are in and shaming of
the sun debuted on the national charts at number 7. this information was
taken from this week's entertainmant weekly which gets its info from
billboard charts. the small blurb on this news was: an even bigger
surprise was indigo girls' no 7 entry, boding well for a year of filthy
lucre for lilith-ians.

i wasn't surprised at all, but am a tad upset that ig got beat out by the
likes of george strait and the spacejam soundtrack :(.

also for ratings enthusiasts--the ellen coming out episode was numero uno
for the week knocking er senseless with 36.2 million viewers vs er's 31.5
million.  i'm sure the folks who backed out of advertising are shaking
their heads now.  i mean even my dad watched the thing and he's like the
biggest "gay people are abnormal" guy in the universe.  ok that was too
much info but i'm tired at 4:30 am here :).

take care

greg

i have a xena type skit i filed from the ellen list which is pretty funny if
you are into ellen-type humor..i'll save the b/w and offer it to anyone who
wants to read it..it is called xellen... :)

also, i have a snipet of lucy lawless doing a comedy spot on another tv show
in which she verbally takes out a wimpet xena imposter...i have put it at the
end of my letterman/rosie/ig tv appearance tape....anybody want to trade for
the cnn show?

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 01:27:14 -1000
reply-to: "k. asiu" <kla@aloha.net>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "k. asiu" <kla@aloha.net>
subject: ig on cnn observations
mime-version: 1.0
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hey y'all,

did anyone else notice that emily wasn't playing the banjo during soy? it
was on the floor next to amy....i wonder if satan left em's dulcimer for
her banjo? <g>

later,
karen

in a message dated 97-05-10 16:14:21 edt, some moron wrote:

<< << oh i'm sorry you can blow me too-feel better now?? >> >>

beige. we should paint the ceiling beige.

hi friends,

yesterday i was driving to a computer show in lovely west palm beach
(where we lose a tourist a day) when i heard that the ig will be preforming
with several other female acts at the coral sky ampitheatre this summer. i
only caught the tail end of the commercial (i was probably dodging bullets or
something) , but i'll update when i hear more info!!! there is a heaven!

"every thought's a possibility"

annie :)

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 09:04:02 -0500
reply-to: lynn@texas.net
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: karen robinson <lynn@texas.net>
subject: billboard charts
mime-version: 1.0
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hi all,

went and checked out the billboard top 200 charts for the week of may
17th. indigo girls debuted on the chart at # seven, yes #7. cool.

for those who want to check it out:

http://www.billboard-online.com/charts/bb200.html

regarding the tour - a few of us mad fans, texans and a scot (gail), are
going to do the june 23rd - june 28th ig shows. anyone who wants to
join is welcome.

karen

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 14:12:50 gmt
reply-to: lost kitty <noone@home.org>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: lost kitty <noone@home.org>
subject: re: all the ellen posts and some choice words about sexuality
 (nigc)
x-to: avedyke@aol.com
in-reply-to: <970511082530_-1030453962@emout04.mail.aol.com>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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on sun, 11 may 1997 08:25:30 -0400, you wrote:

>in a message dated 97-05-10 16:14:21 edt, some moron wrote:
>
><< << oh i'm sorry you can blow me too-feel better now?? >> >>
>
>beige. we should paint the ceiling beige.
>
>--
i'm hetero, could you please translate this lesbian code for me?
please use small words for me to better understand. thanks

i have 5 tickets for the june 12 show in c. falls, ohio if anyone is
interested... please email me privately.
thanks,
jean

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 10:49:45 -0500
reply-to: karrie the queen of the soapbox <k645501b@edinboro.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: karrie the queen of the soapbox <k645501b@edinboro.edu>
subject: nigc- later for a while
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

hey there all!!

i am losing my account because school is over, but i shall return within
the week with a new account......

to pooh, bon and tamara, i will mail you privately with my new address....
asap.

see ya in a week!

peace, love and ig-
karrie

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 12:31:27 -0400
reply-to: kate <grnpeace@fullnet.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: kate <grnpeace@fullnet.com>
subject: lilith fair at indy
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

can anyone give me any info on the lilith fair concert aug. 8th in
indianapolis. ie when tickets go on sale or anything....thanks
______________________________________________________

"don't critisize what you can't understand." b.dylan
______________________________________________________

-kate

grnpeace@fullnet.com

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 13:55:06 -0400
reply-to: animal control <mmacvey@attach.net>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: animal control <mmacvey@attach.net>
organization: dis
subject: feline rabies,beware of lost kitties (nigc)
mime-version: 1.0
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public service announcement
due to the increased incidence of feline rabies it is unwise approaching
strange or lost kitties, no matter how cute they may first appear.the
following are signs of this cruel and incurable disease.
1. unprovoked attacks. although at first they will appear to wish to be
friendly they will exploit any perceived weakness and dive in for the
kill. inferiority in size or numbers will not back them off, but
encourage them to more viscious attacks.
2. general bitchiness. no opponent is too small/weak to overlook, and
like felines in general they enjoy teasing these before finishing them
off.
3. disordered thought processes, and loss of impulse control. although
able to initiate a logical argument they are unable to sustain it as the
underlying animosity and irrationality comes to the fore and results in
uncontrolled motor activity and verbal outbursts(potty-mouth)dr
strangelove is a good example but the diagnosis of rabies was never
established.
4.paranoia and delusions of grandeur which result in a sense of
isolation and loss of community, leading to a search for hidden
meanings, secret societies and conspiracy theories.
5.gratuitous pleas, offers and demands for sexual favors with animate
and inanimate objects. board up your bird houses.
6. excess salivation and hydrophobia are late events.

if you see lost kitties exhibiting the above avoid contact and call
animal control

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 11:09:39 -0700
reply-to: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "kim: goddess in her own reality" <rcn@prcn.org>
subject: arrghhh... let me explain:-)
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

kay... regarding my earlier post about the "f-word" ( you know; fuck ):-)
i guess you'd hafta be living here in my world ( closeted married mom on the
verge of breaking out + away ). see... i am married to a jehovah's witness
man + need to be careful about the music i play, tho it is my right to
listen to whatever i want. i just can't play this song + relax because my
girl is being raised by him as well as me, and her senses are offended by
that kind of talk, cause she's been raised *not* to use that kind of
language. it'd bother her big time if her mum, therefor, were to play
something that she knows that *i* know would be offensive to her... it's a
complicated situation, and not an easy one to work with + "i wish i hadn't
even brought the silly thing up!" :-) so... please y'all who keep posting me
+ telling me that my "problem" with letting my daughter "hear" the stoopid
fucking word ( acchhh lolol!!! ) is a ridiculous one... don't worry... you
don't gotta set me arights on my view. i unnerstan' she hears the word every
day at school... duh... :-) i heard it every day in school when i was a kid
too... but... oh, arrghhh... never mind...
i wonder where i left *my* biege paint ( kirsten?? you been touching up the
celings again?? )
peace... kim ( who had the nerve to wish amy'd said "messin" instead o'
"fuckin" just so's i could play my cd around my kid ).

*********************************************************
with every lesson learned a line upon your beautiful face,
we'll amuse ourselves one day with these memories we'll
trace... emily saliers
**********************************************************

i saw someone post the question about snl and when ig would appear on it,
and to mail them privately. if anyone knows, could they post it to the
list? thanks.

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 13:14:06 -0700
reply-to: gwendigo <gkeyt@paul.spu.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: gwendigo <gkeyt@paul.spu.edu>
subject: re: feline rabies,beware of lost kitties (nigc)
x-to: animal control <mmacvey@attach.net>
in-reply-to: <337607f6.14ba@attach.net>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

on sun, 11 may 1997, animal control wrote:
> public service announcement
> 1. unprovoked attacks. although at first they will appear to wish to be
> 2. general bitchiness. no opponent is too small/weak to overlook, and
> 3. disordered thought processes, and loss of impulse control. although
> 4.paranoia and delusions of grandeur which result in a sense of
> 5.gratuitous pleas, offers and demands for sexual favors with animate
> 6. excess salivation and hydrophobia are late events.

is this a commentary about this list? <g> shore sounds familiar...
>
gwen--whose biggest email pet peeve, aside from superfluous pleas for a
flame-free environment, is adding tagged-on qualifiers to one's name when
signing off, much like this right here.

*************************************************************************
i don't want what is best for you, where will i be when you've found
it? i pray a lot about these bad feelings inside but i can't pray my way
through or around it.--emily saliers
*****gwen keyt******
seattle pacific university
bsn class of 1997!!!
gkeyt@paul.spu.edu

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 17:00:24 -0400
reply-to: amy cason <stu6361@westga.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: amy cason <stu6361@westga.edu>
subject: re: i know what milagro is and your help is no longer desperately
 needed
x-to: "elizabeth m. bolles" <wishmonstr@aol.com>
in-reply-to: <970510160306_-298447351@emout12.mail.aol.com>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

milagro is also spanish for "miracle".
ac

on sat, 10 may 1997, elizabeth m. bolles wrote:

> thank you to everyone who said they could be a branch!  i'll be in touch
> shortly . . . everyone else, you can stop e-mailing me now.  =)
>
> did i ever tell you all that milagro is a girl's name?  well, it is.  maybe
> you already knew that . . . i've been sort of delete happy lately.
>
> ok, off to real work.
>
> -elizabeth
>
> * * * * * * * * * * *
> "moms, moms, moms!  why do i love moms so much?!" - my 6 year old sister
>
> http://members.aol.com/wishmonstr/ewebpg.htm
>  * * * * * * * * * *
>
> --
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>

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 17:19:23 -0400
reply-to: amy cason <stu6361@westga.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: amy cason <stu6361@westga.edu>
subject: beige ceilings?!
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

ok, i don't get it.  could someone explain to me what these recent
postings regarding beige ceilings are supposed to mean?  i'd like to
laugh, too, y'know!!  =)
amy c.

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 18:15:19 -0500
reply-to: the webchick <webwiz@dfwmm.net>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: the webchick <webwiz@dfwmm.net>
subject: nigc: macintosh kaleidoscope users:
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

hey mac fans...

if any of you use kaleidoscope (http://greg.math.harvard.edu) to enhance
your macintosh experience & are interested in new schemes, i just finished
working on a cool one (if i do say so, myself) that includes some neat
window-shade sound effects. if you're interested, e-mail me privately &
i'll e-mail you a copy... it's a fairly small file (58k stuffed).

the scheme is not an ig scheme... just a high tech looking one. looks a
little bit like the interface that was used val kilmer's powerbook in "the
saint."

if you are a mac user, and don't know about kaleidoscope, you are really
missing out... check out the details at the author's site (url above)...
don't let the name fool you, it's not some psychadelic screensaver or
anything... like aaron (another greg landweber application) on steroids...
allows you to choose what your windows, scroll bars, etc. look like &
change the color of 3d progression bars, and many other cool things...
custom trash icons, etc.

-shelley

any aol members, several of us are in the chat room "indigo girls" under
"arts and entertainment" now if you wanna' chat.

see ya' there.

amy

in case anyone is interested, the second annual kate wolf memorial
music festival has been announced.  it's in sebastopol ca (northern bay
area).  it's two days june 13 & 14.  announced acts include dar
williams, eric bogle utah phillips, greg brown, and cris williamson &
tret fure.  more info at:

www.katewolf.com/festival/1997/html

hugh barroll (i'll be there on the 13th)

hi!

we are going to the chastain park show on 5/25 to see the igs!! :) :) :).  we
would like any suggestions regarding  neat places to have dinner/drinks
before the show in atlanta.  any ideas??

"thanks y'all"

dawn

i'd like to be on your email list.

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=========================================================================
date: sun, 11 may 1997 20:14:44 -0400
reply-to: "10,001 maniac" <rbrom@worldnet.att.net>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "10,001 maniac" <rbrom@worldnet.att.net>
subject: subscribe info
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

hi,

can i get subsc info?

thanks,
reuven

last night, when chris was working (she is a superviser at a local casino),
she was changing her tickets ( that's where jackpots are recorded), the last
ticket was numbered 1694. eerie coincidence....

just to add, i found some interesting facts concerning the year 1694 in the
columbia encyclopedia....it was the year that the first bank of england was
established, annapolis was established as the capitol of maryland, william
iii and mary ii were ruling england, voltaire was born, and....totally
reprinted without permission, the facts below....

george fox:
1624-91, english religious leader, founder of the society of friends. in 1646
he underwent a mystical experience that convinced him that christianity was
an inner light by which jesus directly illumines the believing soul.
beginning to preach in 1647, he was often persecuted and imprisoned but won
many followers. he organized his sect in 1668; the first london yearly
meeting was held in 1671. his journal (1694, with a preface by william penn)
has appeared in various editions.

(hishikawa moronobu), c.1618-c.1694, japanese painter and color-print
designer of the ukiyo-e school (see japanese art). one of his few surviving
works is a screen painting in the museum of fine arts, boston.

charles perrault
1628-1703, french poet famed for his mother goose tales (1697) for children.
one of his poems (1687) set off the celebrated "quarrel of the ancients and
the moderns"; boileau-despreaux, the chief defender of the ancients, bandied
insults with perrault until 1694.

phillip jakob spener
1635-1705, german theologian, founder of the devotional movement in
lutheranism known as pietism. as a lutheran pastor in frankfurt, he
instituted (1670) meetings for fellowship and bible study to counteract the
barren intellectualism in the church. these collegia pietatis led to a
religious revival in germany and in other parts of europe despite the
opposition of the orthodox clergy. he helped found (1694) the univ. of halle.

we still think she used it 'cuz it rhymes :)

peace,
chris & rachel

ok y'all, here's the deal. i have one copy of the target starter kit up for
grabs.

setlist:

1) galileo
2) welcome me
3) least complicated
4) three hits
5) ghost
6) kid fears
7) closer to fine

now, here's the contest. i will give this cd free to the first person who
can tell me the name and correct word count of the shortest ig song recorded
on epic.

contest begins at 6:00 pm cst on may 13 (in fairness to the digest people).
any contest entries received before 6:00 pm cst on may 13 will be
disqualified!!!!!!!

send only your name, email address and your entry. the winner will be
notified privately as well as posted to the list (unless they don't want
their name posted).

remember, the entry must be the name and the correct word count of the
shortest ig song recorded on epic records. (i have to limit to epic because
there could be one shorter on a boot somewhere - even though i doubt it, they
don't get much shorter than this! <evil grin>)

happy contesting!!!!!!

peace, harmony & indigo,

hey list,

does anyone know if bass has a website? if so can ya tell me the addy!
thanks.

catherine

would the nomad, indian, or saint who posted ticket prices please e-mail them
to me again -- privately, so this latest evidence of my diminishing iq
doesn't clog the list?

thanks,
dee

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 22:16:54 -0500
reply-to: jo and gary harney <jgharney@iquest.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: jo and gary harney <jgharney@iquest.com>
subject: ig on vh-1?!?!?!?!
mime-version: 1.0
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okay, y'all...i just got a phone call from my little brother saying that he
saw an hour long special on ig on vh-1 yesterday afternoon!!!!! and i
missed it!! did anyone here catch it? or know what it was? feel free to
email me if you know anything!
*frustrated*
sue

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 23:32:47 -400
reply-to: "mail from cindy (lucky you!)" <gossett@centre.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "mail from cindy (lucky you!)" <gossett@centre.edu>
organization: centre college
subject: rosie/ellen, etc...video!!!

alrighty.... i received and dubbed the copy of melissa/ ig on
letterman and rosie/ellen and primetime video.... it took about 13
hrs to make the three copies i have (lloooonnnnggg story) but i'm
hoping that this week i can finish making them all and it won't take
as long.... i brought the cords back to school with me so i can do
it. anyway, now i need to know who all gets a copy! if you're a
branch for the wishmonstr, i need to know your addy and we can figure
the logistics out then....
also, i added a surprise!! its not really anything to get excited
about, but many of y'all may not have it.... anyway, let me know!

thanks!

cindy *who is soooo tired b/c she stayed up all night long working
on this last night and hasn't slept since fri night...*
=o)

**************************************************************************************************************************

i'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
-bailey howe library, university of vermont. burlington, vermont.
(note to self: cancel frontal lobotomy)

fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
-the bayou, baton rouge, louisiana.

http://www.geocities.com/collegepark/quad/8541/poptartcindy.html
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

i'm back online, at my new address.  mail can be sent here or to
ablipman@sas.upenn.edu b/c i'm forwarding mail from there to here.  i would
really like some help from someone who's on compuserve & can answer some
important questions...such as, how do i make a sig?  (you know, important
questions... ;)  anyway, i'd really appreciate the help, so if you're on
compuserve, & you can help me out, please e-mail me.

and now, for a little igc...my dad cut out the time magazine article on ig
for me, and he wrote on it, "they look like tough chicks!" hee hee...

everyone who i owe e-mail to, i'll get to it soon!

i had to cut & paste this sig...

andi
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
_-_-_-
                                 andrea lipman
              ablipman@sas.upenn.edu or 110166.3130@compuserve.com
                      http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~ablipman

    "so since i've been home i've learned two very important things;
ethernet
    is a gift from god, and it just doesn't sound the same to listen to
indigo
      girls without two people singing along."-dana grasso, my ex-roommate
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
-_-_-_

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date: sun, 11 may 1997 21:48:53 -0700
reply-to: verdi@imap2.asu.edu
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: verdi@imap2.asu.edu
subject: hey kind friend
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well, i fell asleep listening to sots and awoke to hkf whikle the sum
was setting. the most overwhelming feeling of empty nostaligia was coming
over me. that song really symbolizes the end of one of life's many stages.
anyone else out there in school having a similar emotions?
ben(goin' on my 36th hour awake...not to worry i have the vivarin comin')

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 01:58:19 -0400
reply-to: katherine hames <kehame@mail.wm.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: katherine hames <kehame@mail.wm.edu>
subject: see y'all later
mime-version: 1.0
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hi all,

i guess compared to a lot of you i am a relative lurker, but i just
wanted to say bye. i'm leaving school tomorrow and won't be on email for
a few days. if anyone should want to get in touch, my email is
hamesk@usa.net for the summer, plus i am forwarding my mail from my
school addie to that one.

also, could someone email me as to how to change over to digest??? thanks.

i only have to get through 16 more days until i will see the ig for the
first time ever!!!! woo-hoo!

watch out for the "tongues of fire" circling 'round the list!! remember,
when you're on fire, the best thing to do is stop, drop, and roll!

:) :) :)

katherine

in a message dated 97-05-12 01:37:38 edt, verdi@imap2.asu.edu writes:

<<
well, i fell asleep listening to sots and awoke to hkf whikle the sum
was setting. the most overwhelming feeling of empty nostaligia was coming
over me. that song really symbolizes the end of one of life's many stages.
anyone else out there in school having a similar emotions? >>

with only 27 more school days left until i graduate high school, this song
has captured many of my feelings about leaving and the rapid changes ahead.
i'm heading to massachusetts, while my best friend will attend stanford. the
other night around 4am we were sitting on my driveway talking about whether
or not we'll be able to keep in touch. (she's one of those people who hate
letter writing and never calls anyone back)

after she left i went up to my room and put sots on shuffle. the first song
that came up was #12. i felt completely overwhelmed. we've been through so
much together and the line, "help me forget where i've been, help me remember
who i am", seemed to symbolize our relationship.

i guess transitions are never easy. but it's okay......i'm okay.

smiles : )
annemarie

~~~http://members.aol.com/debatediva/index.html~~~

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 03:49:36 -0400
reply-to: boilrmkr@bu.edu
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: anjeanette milner <boilrmkr@bu.edu>
subject: new song! get out the delete..
x-cc: tony fraps <tonyfrapsiv@earthlink.net>
mime-version: 1.0
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a new song developed by moi, over a concept joni cyr and i talked about
(hi joni!!!) yes this means i still am not in bed, and it's a good thing
i dont have to work tomorrow!!! enjoy, and remember to be nice boys and grrrls
anjeanette

get out the delete (a parody)
by anjeanette milner

the saddest site my eyes can see
is that big ball of flammage screaming loudly on the list
reading in a small cubicle with some coffee on my knee
this imperfect moment will soon be leaving me...

susi(b) calls from dartmouth the coffee's hot the flames are high
and that same ball of flame wipes that smile right out my eye
when everything is opposite enough to make you cry
or keep this whole list going with no flammage in my sight

get out the delete!
get out the delete key and lay your finger down
we'll leave the whole thing to those who want to be weighed down
dont wade the digests, there seems to be something ailing everyone
i'm gonna clear my head, i'm gonna erase that son o' gun
i'm gonna pass through this topic like i did the last one!

joni trys to calm the flames a few posts ago
and bink's trying asbestos with her bun bun on the west coast
and me i'm still trying to wade through all these posts
seems i'm heavier by the day, heavier by the load

why do we try to hurt each other through every inch of our listspace?
i must say i hope around some corner has some ig place
with every flame thrown another line on this cathode face
we'll amuse ourselves one day with the memories we'll trace

get out the delete! get out the delete key and lay your finger down....
--
email: boilrmkr@bu.edu
*****************************************************************************
"would you know this soul reaching beyond the explained, waiting for some
further fascination?" i said, "love, would you know me? would you know my
mouth if it wasnt on you? ...what can i leave you? what part of me?
what will breathe eternally?" ~amy ray, chickenman soc: charleston, sc
*****************************************************************************

i think 4.5 was a good introduction to the ig for me - it showed me
a lot of different sides to the girls, and made me want to hear more
about them. although i wouldn't reccomend it to people who already
have a lot of their other material, i would reccomend it to new fans
(for example, those who only have sots), as it does show them a lot
of the history of the band (possibly 1200 curfews as well, although
it is a bit more expensive for uk fans).

john.

"i'm going to clear my head, i'm going to drink that sun....."

emily, get out the map.

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 04:37:07 -0700
reply-to: "cbergquist@voyager.net"@voyager.net
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: christian bergquist <"cbergquist@voyager.net"@voyager.net>
organization: soniac productions
subject: snow report and shaming of the sun review
mime-version: 1.0
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i have never posted a message to this group before but have had a great
time over the past month reading other's messages. sitting here watching
the snow fall (may 12 and we've received at least 5 inches of snow; have
to 'love' living in michigan's upper peninsula, eh?)

just read a review in the sunday paper and thought you folks might enjoy
reading it. it's a bit lengthy and is re-printed without permission.

"ever-earnest indigo girls tackle producing duties for 6th album"
by dan deluca
knight-ridder newspapers

  amy ray and emily saliers may never make a really good album, but they
sure are good people.
  to spend a few hours listening to the music they make as the platinum-
selling indigo girls is an arduous task. the fervent vocals. the manic
guitar strumming. the good intentions gone awry in songs that devolve
into a poetic mishmash. there's only so much earnest you can take.
  but to chat with the indigos about music, politics or the folkies'
sixth studio album, "shaming of the sun" (epic), well that's easy. the
indigos are so open, so down-to-earth, so "nice," that you start to feel
like a curmudgeon for not loving their music.
  the project represents the pair's first attempt at producing, a task
they shared with longtime indigo girls' engineer david leonard.
  after starting the project with peter collins, who produced "swamp
ophelia" and 1992's "rites of passage," "we realized we wanted to try
new things to keep it fresh," said ray, 33, the dark-haired indigo.
  "we needed to carry the load of responsibility ourselves. before, it
was always like someone was directing us."
  under its own supervision, the indigos decided to take some risks. the
duo's fans will still be charmed by the blend of ray's sweet, airy
soprano and ray's husky alto. but "shed your skin" kicks off with a
hip-hop drum loop, and employs the american indian vocal trio ulali.
"don't give that girl a gun" is powered by aggressive guitars. and the
album's first single, "shame on you," is a bopping, rocking sing-along
that features saliers on banjo and bouzouki, and a guest appearance by
country-rocker steve earle.
  the instantly accessible "shame on you" and the indigo girl's
continually expanding cult following has led epic, the duo's label, to
expect big things of the album, despite the fact that previous singles
such as "kid fears," "closer to fine" and "the power of two" failed to
crack mainstream radio.
  but top 40 success isn't an indigo goal, said ray, with a laugh. "we'd
probably try to sabotage it if it happened. it's more important to keep
experimenting and keep things fresh."
  "we do a lot of changing around," said the blond-haired saliers, also
33. "we change set lists, learn new instruments, play all different-size
venues."
  "'shaming' is the most overtly political album yet from the two
spiritually inclined artists, who have long been involved in
environmental, women's and gay issues. (they beat ellen degeneres out of
the closet by years.)
  their 1995 "honor the earth" tour, in which they traveled with a group
of american indian activists and played numerous reservations, was a
radicalizing experience, both say.
  "some songs benefit from more nuanced or poetic expressions," salier
said. but during that tour, "i learned that som songs need to be more
direct."
  the indigos are also more willing to sing from a lesbian perspective.
saliers' "it's alright" is more melodically and lyrically direct than
most indigo tunes and addresses discrimination of all forms.
  "there was a long perios of time where i wasn't comfortable talking
about my homosexuality in the press," says saliers, who has opened up in
the last few years. "we didn't want to be gay artists before we were
artists."
saliers is surrently in a relationship she describes as "very strong,"
and ray, who recently broke up with a girlfriend of seven years, says
she's single and "not looking."

hope you enjoyed this review. since joining this group i have read a lot
about trading tapes from concerts. could someone please e-mail me
privately (cbergquist@voyager.net) about how all this works?

back to lurking.

please, does anyone have chords for the above songs?

thanks a bunch

--- shondolyn wrote:
i'm leavign this discussion group. i already get enough sarah mclachlin
mail. good bye.
--- end of quoted material ---
obey kabey , thanks for joining the indigo-girls/ellen/lilith fair/ceiling
painters list! we're sorry to see you go, but in recognition of your visit,
here's your very own...you guessd it!!!...toaster oven!

enjoy it in good health!

thanks, and at the advice of poul, be sure to blow someone you love soon!

susan

ps its a joke people!

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 06:33:51 -0700
reply-to: jan monforton <jmonfort@vannet.k12.wa.us>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: jan monforton <jmonfort@vannet.k12.wa.us>
subject: re: hey kind friend
in-reply-to: <970512021442_-1632204233@emout14.mail.aol.com>
mime-version: 1.0
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hkf right now has sort of a bittersweet meaning to me. i love the song
and it's so beautiful (and since i live in washington i love the
references to olympia, cascades, etc.), but i just ruined my relationship
with my three best friends. one i've known since kindergarten, and
another since second grade. they really knew me and could give me a
realtiy check when needed. we'll be graduating from high school next
year, and i think i was a little afraid of saying goodbye then. anyway,
now when i listen to hkf i think "you idiot, now there's no one who knows
you enough to 'help me forget where i've been...help me remember who i
am'" so, sorry to be so depressing about it, but that's what i've been
thinking.
-sam (avoiding a school project and feeling to sad to do it anyway)

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 09:24:06 -0500
reply-to: "s. steffen" <ssteffen@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "s. steffen" <ssteffen@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
subject: reporting anti-queer violence (nigc)
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

hi y'all, i thought this was important, so i"m forwarding it to the list.

---------- forwarded message ----------

-----------------------------------

____________________________________________________________________

new toll-free hotline to document, assist with anti-gay hate

**please distribute & post as widely as possible -- please add to your
resource lists**

   a new, non-profit, toll-free hotline is now available to assist all
   victims of anti-gay incidents and provide them with a centralized
   source of information and documentation. the gay & lesbian victims'
   assistance hotline (800-259-1536) is a 24-hour project of lambda
   services anti-violence project (avp), located in el paso, tx. the
   hotline is answered by trained volunteers who provide information and
   referrals to persons who have experienced terrifying violence or more
   common anti-gay incidents, such as discrimination, harassment, or
   vandalism. callers may remain anonymous and all information is kept
   strictly confidential.

   "we hope that anyone with information to report will call us," said
   rob knight, president of lambda services. "anti-gay brutality and
   discrimination has long been invisible, mainly because it is among the
   least reported of crimes," said knight. "anti-gay rhetoric is so
   common that it is largely ignored. people are being taught to fear and
   hate homosexuals -- and that fear, unchallenged, often leads to
   violence. the first step in countering the hate is to report it."

   founded in 1991, lambda services is an international, all-volunteer,
   non-profit, lesbigay organization. lambda services' anti-violence
   project (avp) works to prevent and assist victims of anti-gay hate.
   lambda is a national tracking member of the national coalition of
   anti-violence projects.

your donations are tax deductible.

   for information or assistance, call the 24-hour gay & lesbian victims'
   assistance hotline at 800-259-1536 or write to lambda services avp, po
   box 31321, el paso, tx, 79931-0321 usa. office: 915-533-6024 or
   915-562-gays fax: 915-534-7778 email: avproject@aol.com

---------------------------------------------------------------

last updated 4/9/96 by jean richter, richter@eecs.berkeley.edu

in a message dated 97-05-12 09:40:33 edt, our beloved susie b. marine wrote:

<< ps its a joke people!
>>

is it just me, or is it a sad day when we have to justify our posts to the
masses to avoid flamage?

dawn

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 09:14:11 -0500
reply-to: sarah wardrop <swardrop@sps.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: sarah wardrop <swardrop@sps.edu>
subject: gotm - next single
mime-version: 1.0
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hi - thought you might want to know.  the river 92.5 in boston played gotm
this morning and introduced it as the next release from shaming  and that
they knew we were going to love this one.  also, a local top40 station has
been giving soy quite a bit of air time lately. (joy 105.5 for anyone
interested) later.
-sarah

sarah wardrop

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 17:03:22 +0200
reply-to: mic webster <g91w5341@kudu.ru.ac.za>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: mic webster <g91w5341@kudu.ru.ac.za>
subject: 4.5 trade
in-reply-to: <19970430.163915.5335.2.gaiachild@juno.com>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

possible trade offer here ... [i would need to check out whether it is still
orderable ...
anyone intersted in doing a trade of sots for 4.5 [sort an import trade,
i cant get sots, you cant get 4.5] please -mail me
thanks
mic

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

i say i am open-minded but what i think is. - jeanette winterson

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 09:11:15 -0700
reply-to: mediancat <bbertiaux@spectrumctls.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: mediancat <bbertiaux@spectrumctls.com>
subject: music central interview (long)
mime-version: 1.0
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howdy list-
this was posted to the newsgroup and i haven't seen it here yet, so here ya go!

betsy
________forward__________

here's the music central interview, mildly reformatted to fit better,
reprinted without permission.

(imho, the music central web site is _terribly_ designed. slow as a
glacier, and half the links are blank. i suspect the thing that's
crashing out most people is the java applet on the left. it also ehibits
brain-damaged design - there's no scroll throttle, and viewing it on a
serious machine (sgi octane - it, too, is a unix box running netscape),
its images just scroll so fast they fly by as a blur.)

anyway, enjoy the interview!

-tom, coincidentally posting from an indigo2, playing & singing ig
whenever i can, who runs macs at home

------------------------------- cut here ------------------------------

question.   you're in the midst of this acoustic tour right now
          with all these listening parties, and then you're on
          to a large-scale tour. how are they different?

amy.        when me and emily play by ourselves, it's
          usually called an acoustic tour no drums, no bass,
          etc. and then we start up with the band in may;
          that's the big-band tour.
-------
question.   have you ever come into an album released like
          this i mean, doing this smaller-scale thing, and
          then releasing the album?

emily.      not quite like this actually. when we first got sent
          to epic, we did a lot of promotional stuff. but
          we've never set up a tour like this before the
          release of an album, going in and doing so many
          cities for record-company people and their
          salespeople and all that stuff.
-------
question.   so why did you decide to do it this way?

amy.          well, it's helpful to play by ourselves because we
          don't know the material that well yet. i mean, we
          know it, but playing it on stage is different, and
          this is giving us a chance to acclimate to being on
          stage, because we've been off for a long time.
          also, on a business level, it felt like it was a
          positive thing to reassociate ourselves with the
          people that are out there working and selling the
          records. you can either look at it and say, "uuch,
          all that corporate stuff," or you can try to approach
          it from a grassroots level and say, "we're going to
          be out, and we're going to meet people that love
          music, and we're going to play for them."
-------
question.  i remember in 1989, you were here in seattle, you
          played a little reception thing at a hotel suite. you
          met the record distributors, you did an interview
          with college radio, you did your soundcheck, you
          did an interview with me, you did your show.
          then afterwards you had to meet all the label reps,
          and the next day you were going to drive down to
          portland and do the exact same thing again. and i
          thought, "god, all that work for that one hour on
          stage." how do you manage to keep that balance
          between all that business stuff and yet still keep it
          fresh?

emily.      basically a tour like this, we know what to expect,
          so we just kind of get in a mode and go. but we
          couldn't keep up a pace like this on our regular
          tours where we play two-hour shows. plus, these
          are nice people, too. fans come to these things � i
          mean, they may have business connections, but
          they're fans, and they love music.

amy.       we're trying to create a different agenda besides
          making money. and you can't change things
          unless you try to change them. you know, you
          can't sit on the outside and go, "oh, it's a bunch of
          business shit." you have to change the agenda.
          and we're here to say that we know the record
          label's here to make money, but we have a
          different agenda, and we're going to push it. and
          we're going to push it in the midst of all this, too.
          that's the only way i could do it. i'd be out of this
          if i couldn't do that.
-------
question.   how does it feel for you, amy? you straddle both
          fences. i mean, you're a musician with a big label,
          but then you also run a label yourself.

amy.        well, it teaches me a lot on both sides. i learn the
          value of when artists are willing to tour, when
          artists are willing to do interviews, or to go to
          radio stations, or to say hey! to people and
          connect with them on a human level. and i learn
          the value of that from both sides. but i really like
          the indie world a lot. it's smaller and it's just
          different. it's capitalism, but it's different on some
          level. i see a lot of people through indigo girls
          that i see through daemon, too. and it makes me
          feel good, because i'm trying to promote those
          musicians and help them out.
-------
question.  so it's making a difference on both levels: the big
          level, as a musician and changing the agenda, like
          you said, and the smaller level with the indie
          record thing.

amy.          yeah. well, i'm getting a lot out of it, i'll say that.
          so it's good for me.
------
question.  there's been a long gap between studio albums
          for you. and i wondered if that was by choice or
          design.

emily. yeah, we took a year off after we finished the
honor the earth tour, two years ago.

          and then we put together the live album, 1200
          curfews, as kind of an interim thing. well, we
          ended up putting a lot of work into that record,
          actually.

amy. four months or something, wasn't it?

emily      to be honest, part of the impetus behind that
          record was to fill the gap of time, but also to create
          what it's like to come to one of our shows and do
          it on record. so we did that. and then we took that
          year off just to recharge, and so now we're back

-------
question.  what do you think when you go in to make a new
          record, a studio record? what's your frame of
          mind?

emily.     it's exciting and intimidating, because it can
          become anything. and this record, things went a
          little differently from before for different reasons.
          one, we started out with peter collins, and then
          we were going to hook up with another producer,
          but nothing was working out. so we ended up
          deciding we'd just do it ourselves with dave
          leonard. that was different. and we started in
          nashville; we went to austin; we went to atlanta;
          we recorded in different places. so this album was
          really like, just do whatever we want to do on it,
          and play different instruments, even though we
          may not be as adept at them as other people might
          be � that's ok. do it ourselves, experiment with
          electric guitars, experiment with vocal levels and
          doubling and fun things like that, bring in bands.
          so when you start a record, you never know where
          it's going to go, and that's exactly what happened
          on this one.

-------
question.   i was interested to see you still write separately.
          i'd wondered if that was going to change over the
          years, and it hasn't. how do you feel your
          songwriting has changed though? why haven't
          you started collaborating?

amy.        because we're still into writing separately. i mean,
          we still like to have our private space to write in, i
          think, and i think our language is different, and
          our musical language is different, too. i think i've
          gone through phases where i was more abstract
          and now maybe i'm more direct and my images
          have gotten more literal, maybe. musically i feel a
          little more raw right now. but you always go
          through cycles, and you may go back to some
          other style that you never thought you could relate
          to again.

emily. yeah. it's a mystery.

amy. how you would define your...

emily. my changes?

amy. your changes.

emily.      i don't know. i'd like to think that my songwriting
          is a little less bleeding-heart, mushy-type stuff.
          but there are certain songs that i like a lot that
          were written a long time ago in the era of other
          songs that i listen to now and go, "eeugh, how did
          i ever sing that song live?" but that's ok. you
          make peace with that. you go, "this one marks a
          time and this is what i felt and this is how i wrote
          it." and now i think i feel a little more exposed to
          what actually goes on in the world in terms of
          systems and what's running people's lives. sort of
          like an awakening, reading all these things in the
          media. and i feel the presence of that. although i
          don't know how to articulate it, i feel that that has
          had influence on my writing and what i think
          about how i view the world.
-------
question.  are there any songs on this album that have a
          personal, an especially personal meaning for
          either of you?

amy.       you always say this after you make a record, but
          it's probably my most personal record, my most
          direct, my most literal, my most unhinged. i don't
          care what anybody thinks. this is how i felt; this is
          how i feel. i need to get it out: a "this one's for me"
          kind of feeling.

emily.     yeah. these songs are very personal. but some are
          more experimental for me, like "caramia" is more
          electric guitar. first time that's happened for me.
          and i stuck two ideas of songs together. never
          really done that before. and then "burn all the
          letters" is a song that i started writing in the
          studio. never done that before either never
          really done that before. and then "burn all the
          letters" is a song that i started writing in the
          studio. never done that before either � just kind of
          jamming.
-------
question.  what inspired that?

emily.     well a lot was our honor the earth tour, and
          some of the native americans that we've met.
          and also that whole issue of privacy, which i think
          about a lot.
-------
question. that must be a big issue for you.

emily.     well, it's not so bad really, but i think about the
          way human beings are really interested to know
          every detail of everyone else's life. and then i
          coupled that with the injustice of having
          government agencies infiltrating your life, and
          watching you, and sometimes killing you. i just
          sort of tied those things together loosely in my
          mind, and in that song.

------
question.  you mentioned the honor the earth tour. and i
          know that over your career you've worked with
          various causes, and obviously there's so many
          good causes out there. how do you decide which
          one you're going to throw your weight behind?

emily.     well, most of them have to do with environmental
          concerns. we like grassroots activism. we like that
          kind of community involvement � like groups that
          fight violence or military spending, or
          humanitarian-focused groups.

amy. social justice.

emily.     yeah, social justice. whatever's here to promote
          equality among human beings, and appreciation
          of diversity, and is sort of antiviolent, for the most
          part.

-------
question.  i remember, talking to you in '89, when you were
          talking to the majors. you were saying, "this is
          what we want to do � this, this, and that." they
          were, like, "ok, if that's what you want."

amy. well, there weren't that many interested in us.

emily. just one, really. the one that signed us.

amy.        and they were starting to build a roster of the
          different kind of artists that were more
          independent, or more from a self-contained sort
          of world where they had set ideas and set ways of
          working, and it was becoming more of an artist's
          label. us, or pearl jam, or rage against the
          machine � bands that had specific needs, and they
          were going to say what they were. so we got lucky,
          because we stepped in right at a time where they
          were open to that.

emily. but then we sold some records.

-------
quetion. which helps.

amy. yeah, really helps.

emily.    you don't sell records, they'll drop you. that's just
          a fact. there are lots of artists who are really
          important artists, like the roches.

amy. totally.

emily.      and they were just dropped and pushed around
          and taken advantage of, and they didn't sell that
          many records.

amy. but they are still out there.

emily. they are still out there. we love them.

------
question.  well, what cause has meant the most to you to
          work on? would it be the honor the earth tour
          because of the whole big tour around it?

amy.       i wouldn't say that. i wouldn't say that it's more
          important than women's issues or gay issues that
          we've worked on, or violence education, or
          anything else. that was a cause that was easy to do
          a grassroots organizational benefit tour around,
          and we hooked up with the right people. and that
          tour also helps us in our other community efforts,
          because it helps us learn about grassroots
          organizing; it helps us learn effective ways to raise
          money for things, and effective ways to distribute
          it. it's more like we're learning how to be activists
          through our music.
------
question.  it sounds like it was a really educational
          experience.

emily.     i like this group wand a lot, too. it's women's
          action for new direction, and we've done some
          stuff with them. they're fun because they're
          grassroots, but they're also women from all
          different walks of life. you know, it's like retired
          schoolteachers, and mothers, and college kids. it's
          very, very diverse. it's an exciting group. there's
          so many out there. it's inspiring.

------
question.  can you ever envision a time when perhaps
          you're not as involved in the music industry as
          much as musicians, but more behind the scenes,
          other capacity type of thing?

emily. yeah.

amy. yeah. i wonder every day whether daemon's
going to continue.

------
question. really?

amy.        it's just hard. my employees are underpaid, and i
          want to be able to pay them more, and they work
          their butts off. and if i lose them, i really lose the
          label. and i'm so busy. but this year i was like,
          this is going to continue. i'll lose money forever
          and i don't care, because it's so important to me.
          so for me, that is my behind-the-scenes and i'm
          going to continue doing it.

emily.     for me, it's probably things like writing for other
          people or writing more expansive music, notating
          it, things like that. i don't know. learning more
          about the studio, working with other people on
          their projects, the production.
------
question.   and now you have to stay here and sign some
          stuff for me. i am a fan. i actually like these
          people. this is integrity in journalism.

amy. thanks, o great internet audience.

------------------------------- cut here ------------------------------

tom padula, digital media audio horde
silicon graphics inc., mountain view, ca
tjpadula@dowland.engr.sgi.com
415-933-7483

...........................................................
and we'll make it fine, if the weather holds.
but if the weather holds, then we'll have missed the point.
that's where i need to go.
- e. saliers
...........................................................

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=========================================================================
date: mon, 12 may 1997 12:23:37 -0400
reply-to: karra baron <kmcleroy@umich.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: karra baron <kmcleroy@umich.edu>
subject: another sots review
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

this was in yesterday's detroit free press as the "folk" selection. it
received 3 out of 4 stars.

     "shaming of the sun", the indigo girls' sixth studio album, presents
in 12 songs everything that is good about the folk duo and reveals some of
its weaknessses, too.  songs like "shame on you" and "get out the map" are
winning aggressive rockers from a duo usually better known for the quiet
and reflective.  but the girls' tendency toward the overwrought (think
melissa etheridge, but times two) dooms the piano ballad "leeds", in which
emily saliers pounds way too hard on her keyboard for such a simple tune.
but overall, the indigo girls are on an upward trajectory in the studio,
crafting albums that are beginning to approach their acclaimed live
concerts.

that's it, and i have to confess that the melissa reference had me rolling
:)

karra \ kmcleroy@umich.edu \ university of michigan office of major events
*****************************************************************************

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=========================================================================
date: mon, 12 may 1997 12:35:31 -0400
reply-to: rebecca s harrison <s0220477@cc.ysu.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: rebecca s harrison <s0220477@cc.ysu.edu>
subject: re: sots geography
x-to: justin shumaker <shuey@tcac.com>
in-reply-to: <v03102800af9701491664@[207.50.45.9]>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

wowie! my best friend is a geography major and i thought she's the only
one to notice all the different places they mention!!! what a coinky dink!
a little more ramblining....becky

1 month till ig in kettering/cuyahoga falls ;)

signing off for a little while. have too much school work with finals
comming up, then going to minnesota for a wedding. those of you who might
need to get in touch, please e-mail me privately.

thanks for all that ya'll have shared!

susu

noticed something strange when i was reading this mail (actually i
scanned a lot of it - it was a really long mail) - i could hear a &
e's voices saying their different pieces as i read it. i guess part
of it was in the way the text was written, but another strong part
of it was listening to the music for so long that i can start to
tell their voices apart really well - when i started listening, i
wasn't sure which girl was singing any particular song....

john.

"i'm going to clear my head, i'm going to drink that sun....."

emily, get out the map.

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=========================================================================
date: mon, 12 may 1997 10:37:33 -0700
reply-to: john miller <jmiller@wdl.lmco.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: john miller <jmiller@wdl.lmco.com>
subject: eugene/seattle - caroline aiken (nigc)
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

just a quick word to those of you living near eugene or seattle.

a wonderful evening of live music is coming your way this week.

caroline aiken (with wendy bucklew opening) will be performing:

tues may 13 - john henry's, eugene, oregon
thur may 15 - tractor tavern, seattle, washington

several of us from this list saw them both perform last night in
santa cruz california... show was excellent, beyond expectations!

see them if you can... additional tour dates can be found on the web:

http://www.hidwater.com/aiken/

http://www.hidwater.com/wendy/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
john miller, san jose ca <jmiller@wdl.lmco.com>

sorry for the waste of bw, but i just had to write this - when you
look at the inside photo (under the cd) for sots, isn't it obvious -
amy ray & melissa etheridge : seperated at birth!!! :-)

just thought i'd share that,

john.

"i'm going to clear my head, i'm going to drink that sun....."

emily, get out the map.

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=========================================================================
date: mon, 12 may 1997 13:18:56 -0500
reply-to: bassmandan@box100.com
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: dan perkins <bassmandan@box100.com>
subject: austin tix info
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

howdy y'all,

here is the low down on the tickets for the two ig shows at the backyard
here in beautiful austin (well, bee caves actually) texas. tickets go on
sale this saturday may 17th at 10:00 am. tickets are $30.75 for gen adm
and $36.75 for reserved seating.. order by phone at 1-800-966-show
(7469) outside of austin only (if you are outside of texas you might
check this number before saturday). the first weekend of ticket sales
tix will be limited to 8 per person. shows are thursday june 17th at
7:00pm and friday june 18th at 8:00pm
--
peace,

dan perkins
tour guide to the obvious,
post-episodic clairvoyant,
bassist/singer/songwriter.

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=========================================================================
date: mon, 12 may 1997 14:19:45 -0400
reply-to: deb <indigo@mindspring.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: deb <indigo@mindspring.com>
subject: re: the f-word:-)
in-reply-to: <199705091647.jaa16413@prcn.org>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

at 09:47 am 5/9/97 -0700, kim: goddess in her own reality wrote:
>i just don't see why
>amy couldn't have said "messin" or something else, just for *me* so's i
>could relax:-)... lol...

just wouldn't have flowed right; as is, the lyric seems to fit, though i'd
be willing to argue that amy emphasizes the f-word a bit more than
necessary. i can't think of anything that could have substituted without
diminishing the song, so that means, to me, it belonged there.

--
deb \\ indigo@mindspring.com \\ http://www.mindspring.com/~indigo
____________________________________________________________________________
"i'm a pagan for jesus!" - amy ray

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=========================================================================
date: mon, 12 may 1997 14:22:12 -0400
reply-to: deb <indigo@mindspring.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: deb <indigo@mindspring.com>
subject: re: ok, here it is...ig on showbiz
in-reply-to: <2.2.32.19970509215858.006a26fc@po7.mit.edu>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

at 05:58 pm 5/9/97 -0400, joan m. cyr wrote:
>bad news: cut off! here's where it ended "...funny i think we were on...."
>and thats it. blech.

actually, i saw both the 5:30 and the 12:30 show, and on the 12:30 show
they showed about another minute of soy, so the cut wasn't quite as abrupt
(but they still didn't play the whole song).

=-=-=

at 06:05 pm 5/9/97 -0400, susan and jocelyn wrote:
>does anyone know where a+e were for the cnn live thingie that was just on?
some club called ts something? we missed everything but the song (which cnn
cut off, by the way - harrumph!) anyhoo - just wondering what city it was -
quick answer, anyone? anyone?

they didn't say the name of the place, but at the beginning of the show the
announcer said they were playing live from new york city.

--
deb \\ indigo@mindspring.com \\ http://www.mindspring.com/~indigo
____________________________________________________________________________
"i'm a pagan for jesus!" - amy ray

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 15:06:31 -0400
reply-to: amy cason <stu6361@westga.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: amy cason <stu6361@westga.edu>
subject: re: ig on vh-1?!?!?!?!
x-to: jo and gary harney <jgharney@iquest.com>
in-reply-to: <v01510101af9bf62a4e6b@[165.113.140.9]>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

oh, wow, and i don't even have vh-1 in this little bo-dunk town! please,
confirm this soon, and some kind soul please let me know how to get a
copy!
amy c.

on sun, 11 may 1997, jo and gary harney wrote:

> okay, y'all...i just got a phone call from my little brother saying that he
> saw an hour long special on ig on vh-1 yesterday afternoon!!!!!  and i
> missed it!!  did anyone here catch it?  or know what it was?  feel free to
> email me if you know anything!
> *frustrated*
> sue
>
> --
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date: mon, 12 may 1997 12:21:54 -0700
reply-to: elena guerin <elena@cruzio.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: elena guerin <elena@cruzio.com>
subject: info on ig in berkeley?
mime-version: 1.0
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content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

anyone heard rumors as to when tickets for ig at the u.c. berkeley greek
theater are supposed to go on sale? i just talked to bass and they have no
info.

elena
elena@cruzio.com

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 15:34:15 -0400
reply-to: mark anthony donajkowski <madonajk@alpha.delta.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: mark anthony donajkowski <madonajk@alpha.delta.edu>
subject: some ig content
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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yes i sent the whole thing to the list theres a ig single on here for you
must have everything folks and a cd with ani defranco join the list its
well worth it

---------- forwarded message ----------
date: mon, 12 may 1997 11:25:55 -0700
from: the cd list guy <searchme@loop.com>
to: searchme@loop.com
subject: preferred date: may 12, 1997

-the cd list guy-
------------------------
a cd list production

1. this week's deal: the dollar-off sale continues for cds over four bucks
(already subtracted by yours truly) and the perm discount, buy two, take a
dollar off, applies to the $4.00 cds only this week. if you mix'n'match,
the discount on the $4.00 cds still applies. confused? <grin> i sure am!
fear not, i'll subtract accordingly when you reserve your cds, thus making
thinking on your part purely optional!!!

2. i got much positive feedback on the cd list guy's website spotlight last
week so i'm including it again. read up on the artists offered by the cd
list guy, gain knowledge, amaze your friends!

3. feel free to join listtalk, the official mailing list of the cd list
guy. to participate, just send me a note with talk in the subject header.
contribute to the "best albums no one's heard of" discussion.

4. i'm posting the master list once again to my web site. if you don't
know where i live, check the bottom of this list! it should posted within
a couple of hours at the latest.

thanks for hanging out - have a great week!

matthew k.
the cd list guy

-----

remember: there's only one of each so reserve with much haste!!

permanent discount: buy two or more, take $1.00 off!

key:         pr = promo printed on cd and booklet.
        fs = factory sealed
        imp = import
        nb = no booklet.
        nc = no cover.
        pc = picture cover.
        cp = cardboard picture sleeve.
        sp  = special packaging.
        rcv = record club version.
        ri = regular issue (no stamps or promo stickers)
        ps = promo stamp on booklet (not on cd).
        st  = sticker cover.
        sc = slimline case.
        bcc = booklet corner clipped.
        sw = sawmark on booklet.

----------------------------------------------------------------

*this week's cd singles*

7.00 -- brightman, sarah -- captain nemo imp-sc --
1993 a&m - radio edit and extended album version of title track
plus lp versions of when it rains in america & island.

4.00 -- butthole surfers -- pepper pr-fs-sp --
1996 capitol - single edit - in picture digipak - of special
interest if you have a thing for squirrels.

5.00 -- costello, elvis -- you bowed down pr-st --
1996 wb - edit of title track - (procd 8198) - sticker cover has
angel playing guitar.

7.00 -- china crisis -- saint saviour square sp-cp-fs --
1989 virgin (vscd1168)- 4 tracks: 7" mix & 12" mix of title track
plus back home (produced by walter becker) and no more blue horizons (from
1982?) - 3 inch cd in weird sealed package, clear plastic, suitable for
hanging on store display, might be an import, can't tell.

4.00 -- crow, sheryl -- everyday is a winding road pr-cp
-- 1996 a&m - lp version - great pic of sc holding guitar on
cover.

9.00 -- enya -- on my way home pr-sc -- 1996
reprise (procd 8056) - two versions: remix, album version.

9.00     --     guns'n'roses     --     hitmakers november rain edits
pr-nc    --     june 19, 1992 - ultra rare cd has five edits:  century
edit; michael martin kiis edit; j garrison wjfk edit; top gun edit; ah-so
edit koht;  plus lp version.

7.00 -- indigo girls -- galileo pr-fs-pd --
1992 sony - lp version - artwork on front, pic of igs on rear.

5.00 -- johnston, freedy -- this perfect world pr-sp
-- 1994 elektra (prcd-8980-2) - lp version - special booklet
includes excerpts from reviews from newspapers across the country.

5.00 -- knopfler, mark -- darling pretty pr-nc --
1996 warner - 2 versions: intro edit and album version.

5.00 -- los lobos -- lights out pr-sc-st --
1994 a&m - 2 versions: lp version, 50s edit - from the movie
soundtrack "last track to nowhere," music from the original showtime
series, rebel highway.

4.00 -- nyro, laura -- a woman of the world pr-pc --
1993 columbia - lp version - from the album "walk the dog & light
the light."

4.00 -- orbital -- the saint pr-nc -- 1997
internal records - 2 versions: the saint (4:30) and the sinner (industry
standard - 3:59) - from the movie of the same name - this is the cd only,
no paperwork, does have swell saint logo (the stick guy with the halo
thing) on it.

5.00 -- rusty -- rusty ep-imp-sc -- 1994
handsome boy - made in canada - 5 tracks: punk, wake me, k.d. lang,
misogyny, billy boy.

*this week's long playin' cds*

4.00 -- addams family values -- movie soundtrack ri --
1993 paramount - including pm dawn (may you always drink bizarre),
tag team (addams family whoomp!), guru, charles & eddie (supernatural
thing), rupaul (whatcha see is whatcha get), others.

7.00 -- bender, ariel (luther grosvenor) -- floodgates
ri -- 1996 brilliant recording co - former guitarist for spooky
tooth, stealers wheel, and mott the hoople has returned, now recording
under his real name.

4.00 -- blasband, rebecca -- rapt pr-nc --
1997 mercury - backed by gordon gano, blasband of the ivys goes it
on her own with this collection of alt rock tracks.

4.00 -- blinker the star -- a bourgeois kitten pr --
1996 a&m - intelligent alt rock from canada - no case, just one
sheet cover in soft plastic pouch.

5.00 -- blues company -- public relations imp --
inakustick records - made in germany - american blues, german
style! - features guest appearances by slide guitarist joanna conner, sax
player big jay mcneely, harp player carey bell.

7.00     --     by jeeves (alan ayckbourn w/ andrew lloyd webber)        --
        original cast recording  ps-ri   --     1996 really usual/polydor -
book and lyrics by alan a. and music by andrew lloyd w.  - play stars
steven pacey of blake's 7 fame, and malcolm sinclair.

4.00     --     campbell, john   --     howlin' mercy  ri-hb     --
        1993 elektra - whiskey voiced (he covers a tom waits song, to give
you an example) guitarist plays smokey blues rock - in addition to  waits
cover (down in the hole), he also tackles zep (when the levee breaks), the
traditional saddle up my pony and also plays a whole slew of originals.

4.00     --     chapin, tom      --     mother earth  ri         --
        1990 sundance - liner notes:  "a bountiful basket of sparkling new
songs for kids and families."  - includes the picnic of the world, mother
earth's routine, stone soup, cousins, sailing to the sea, 8 others.

4.00 -- christian, frank -- mister so and so --
1996 palmetto - talented, mellow folkie writes up his own stuff
plus covers gordon lightfoot, tom rush, jacques brel, blind willie mctell,
and even does up "makin' whoopee."

4.00 -- clandestine -- clandestine ri -- 1996 canyon
records - synthesis of rock, reggae and native american music done in
routine style.

4.00 -- claw hammer -- hold your tongue & say apple pr-ri
-- 1997 interscope - my vote for the funnest album title this
year to date - their latest effort includes the tracks, ass kisser's union,
black eyed blues, gnashville, 9 others.

7.00 -- cleveland, ashley -- 4-track sampler pr-sp --
1993 reunion - 4 tracks: feel like falling; henry don't care;
water; light at the end of the tunnel - super nice packaging, opens at top,
has one of those "string closing" clasps that you find on cardboard files,
package is made of nice material with picture on cover - really cool.

4.00     --     cross, mike      --     high powered, low flying  ri     --
        1994 sugar hill - singer/songwriter/guitarist/fiddler backed by
all-star band of bluegrass musicians:  jerry douglas (who also produced),
sam bush, dave pomeroy, larry atamanuik - more folk ballads than bluegrass
tracks.

4.00 -- cycomotogoat -- braille ri -- 1996 what
are? records - hard to describe, borderline psychedelic rock but also a
little garage like, somewhat bluesy - john popper guests on the track
"harmonica."

4.00 -- delorenzo, victor -- pancake day pr-ri --
1996 almo - drummer for violent femmes puts out pure pop record,
news at eleven!

4.00 -- ferron -- still riot ps-ri -- 1996
earthbeat/wb - all music guide describes ferron as "connecting rich,
poetic, archetypal imagery with vibrant musical textures guaranteed to
create an immediate emotional impact."

5.00 -- freeway philharmonic -- sonic detour ri --
sheffield lab live studio recordings - "the hipness of kronos,
the serious musical ability of shadowfax, and the acoustically humored
sensibility of a bela fleck." - gavin report

4.00 -- garden variety -- garden variety ri --
1993 gern records - punk rock, classic 70s style! - tracks include
puzzled, turnout, hedge, on track, unsound, fallin, 9 others.

5.00 -- harvey, jane -- the other side of sondheim ri --
1988 atlantic jazz - well respected cabaret/torch singer takes on
sondheim - includes i'm still here, send in the clowns, not a day goes by,
9 others - only non-sondheim is rose's medley from gypsy.

5.00 -- jagger, chris -- rock the zydeco ri-ps --
1995 curb - mick's bro goes zydeco! - includes guests mick jagger,
dave stewart, dave gilmour, leo sayer.

5.00 -- judybats, the -- full-empty ps-ri --
1994 sire - pleasant acoustic folk-rock - includes cover of that
ol' bee gees chestnut (ahem), jive talkin'.

4.00 -- lorca (music by mike mckenzie) -- movie soundtrack
pr-fs -- mark mckenzie, veteran of movie orchestration, takes the
wheel - movie lorca stars andy garcia, edward james almos, esai morales.

5.00 -- masen, sarah -- hold back the wishbone pr --
1997 rethink/emi - she's yet another folk alt songwriter getting
played on adult alternative radio - four lp tracks plus live acoustic
version of elvis costello's veronica (co-written by paul mccartney).

4.00 -- nero, peter -- love songs for a rainy day ri --
1996 intersound - he lives! - includes always, stella by starlight,
misty, the shadow of your smile, 7 others.

4.00     --     new frontier     --     new frontier  ri         --
        1988 mika/polygram - this is an odd thing, looks like a one-off,
produced by richie zito, it's typical eighties hard rock/pop - it does have
some interesting guest musicians though:  david lindley, brent mydland,
martin page, timothy b schmidt, paulhino da cossta, john keane.

5.00 -- nunn, terri -- moment of truth ri-hb --
1991 geffen - former lead singer of berlin - includes 89 lines, let
me be the one, fly by night, 8 others.

5.00 -- nuno -- schizophonic pr-sp -- 1996 a&m -
respected guitarist from band extreme goes solo - no case, just one sheet
cover in soft plastic pouch.

4.00 -- original gangstas -- movie soundtrack pr-ri --
1996 virgin - tracks by smooth, ideal, geto boys, the click, mc
ren, ice t (how does it feel), facemob (rivals), others - 14 tracks total.

4.00 -- polara -- pantomime ep-ps -- 1996
interscope - 5 tracks: pantomime; idle hands; light the fuse & run;
confusing times; pantomime (kinder & gentler version).

5.00 -- powerman 5000 -- mega!! kung fu radio pr-nc --
dreamworks records - huge in boston, this band won the local boston
pheonix reader's poll (best metal/best rap/best album) - this album is
major label release of the blood splat rating system, remixed and
remastered and with two songs added.

4.00 -- pulsars -- submission to the master ep --
1996 almo - submit to the fresh power pop of the trumfio brothers -
5 tracks, including one not on their first full length deal.

5.00 -- rankin family, the -- north country ri --
1995 guardian - mor folk rock from nova scotia with a minor touch
of celtic - liam o'maonai guests on remix of grey dusk of eve
(portobello/leis an lurgainn remix).

4.00 -- schmitt, adam -- illiterature ri --
1993 reprise - isn't this guy in titantic love affair? - you could
never tell from this hard-pop, low-rent, mainstream sounding rock record.

4.00 -- sexton, martin -- black sheep ri -- 1996
eastern front - mellow folkster - includes version of america the
beautiful, oddly enough - background vocals by patty griffin on two tracks.

5.00 -- shizzoe, hank -- low budget ps-pcd --
1996 ruf records - bought this one for myself a couple weeks back,
never heard of the guy but it had this way cool packaging and the price was
right - i've found another, and would recommend for fans of jj cale (he
even covers his song mona) or ry cooder - lots of originals (written by
collaborator thomas erb) plus mark knopfler and robert johnson covers -
comes in funky 2-fold digipak with booklet tucked inside.

9.00     --     sky cries mary   --     coconut soup and other appetizers
pr-cp    --     1997 warners - "a multimedia journey for your cd player,
your computer and your mind."   - hey, that's what it says!

4.00 -- watley, jody -- intimacy ri -- 1993 mca -
still doing it in the 90s, includes when a man loves a woman, workin' on a
groove, ecstasy, too shy to say, 6 others.

*been there...cd singles*

4.00 -- beck -- the new pollution pr-pc --
1997 geffen - lp version - list of beck achievements on back -
green and red geometric design on front and rear inserts.

4.00 -- big audio dynamite -- i turned out a punk pr-pc
-- 1996 radioactive - radio edit version, weird x-ray pic of
jones on cover.

4.00 -- farris, dionne -- don't ever touch me again pr-pc --
1995 sony - radio edit, long version, live version - inside cover
has lyrics - great song, nice package!

5.00 -- gabriel, peter -- blood of eden pr-ps-sc-imp --
1993 virgin - uk import - radio edit and lp versions.

5.00 -- garbage -- stupid girl pr-cs-fs -- 1996 almo -
2 versions: tee's radio mix, lp version.

4.00 -- griffith, nanci -- everything's coming up roses pr-nc
-- 1997 elektra (prcd 9777-2) - edit and lp versions.

4.00 -- happy mondays -- step on pr-nc -- 1990
elektra - 2 versions: stuff it in mix and twistin my melon mix.

4.00 -- loveless, patty -- the trouble with the truth pr-pc
-- 1997 sony (esk 78549) - radio edit.

4.00 -- mountain (leslie west) -- solution/mississipi queen
pr-pc -- 1995 sony - csk 7010 - 2 tracks taken from the boxed set,
includes newly recorded solution plus classic mississipi queen (2:31).

7.00 -- nirvana -- drain you pr-nc -- 1996 geffen
- lp version.

7.00 -- nirvana -- the man who sold the world pr-nc --
1994 geffen (pro cd 4704) - lp version.

5.00 -- psychedelic furs, the -- until she comes ri-pc --
1991 columbia - 4 tracks: until she comes (lp and single mix),
sometimes (lp version), make it mine (non-lp track).

5.00 -- ridgway, stan -- i wanna be a boss pr-cp --
1991 geffen - lp version and edit - cool pix on cover and rear.

4.00 -- sonic youth -- bull in the heather pr-pc --
1994 geffen (pro cd 4638) - lp version.

4.00 -- springsteen, bruce -- 57 channels & nothin' on
pr-pc -- 1992 columbia (csk 4599) - lp version.

4.00 -- straw, syd (party of five soundtrack) -- people of
earth pr-pc -- 1996 reprise (pro cd 8537) - edit and album
versions - syd on front cover, party of five cast on rear - from the party
of five soundtrack.

4.00 -- sweet, matthew -- where you get love pr-ps --
1997 zoo (zp 37217-2) - edit and lp versions.

4.00 -- veruca salt -- volcano girls pr-ps --
1997 outpost - lp version - from the album eight arms to hold you.

4.00 -- weezer -- el scorcho pr-pc -- 1996 geffen
- lp version - from the album pinkerton.

7.00 -- white zombie -- nightcrawlers: the kmfdm remixes
pr-pc -- 1992 geffen - 3 versions of thunder kiss 65 (lp, swinging
lovers, the remix that wouldn't die remix) and two versions of black
sunshine.

4.00 -- wilco -- outtasite (outta mind) pr-nb --
1996 reprise - promo single has both lp versions of title track -
no booklet/cover, no rear insert, just the cd.

*done that...cd long'uns*

4.00 -- brothers & systems -- transcontinental weekend
ri -- 1992 nettwork/irs - web sez: "a cross-pollination between
soul, funk, bossa nova, hip hop, house and technology."

4.00 -- city slickers ii: the legend of curly's gold --
movie soundtrack ri -- 1994 columbia - music composed and
produced by marc shaiman.

9.00 -- cole, lloyd -- lloyd cole pr-sp --
1990 capitol (dpro-79003) - rare promo in single-fold digipak with
promo liner notes within - package a little worn but ok.

4.00 -- cruel sea, the -- the honeymoon is over ri --
1993 a&m - australian rock band swept music awards (best album,
best band, best song) in their home country with this album.

4.00 -- darling buds, the -- crawdaddy ri --
1990 columbia - webstuff: "formed in cardiff, wales in
1986...basically the trend was for a band to have a blonde female singer
backed by a load of blokes wearing black and trying to look moody."

4.00 -- daylight -- motion picture soundtrack ri --
1996 universal - original score composed and conducted by randy
edelman.

5.00 -- elfman, danny -- dick tracy ri -- 1990 sire -
original score composed by elfman - no sign of madonna anywhere!

5.00 -- extreme ii -- pornograffiti ri --
1990 a&m - with singer cherone joining van halen, and nuno starting
a solo career, this band already has its place in history!

4.00 -- fatima mansions -- lost in the former west ri --
1994 radioactive - "...faithful to their stinging, observant
lyrical view of civilization, bathing it in a mesmerizing quasi-rock
setting." -tina alvarez

4.00 -- fatima mansions -- viva dead ponies ri --
1991 radioactive - earlier, more experimental work, with sort song
bursts, some alt pop rock, and an occasional blast of industrial thrash.

5.00 -- gabriel, peter -- in-store play sampler ps-cs --
geffen - 5 tracks from "secret world live" including red rain,
sledgehammer and in your eyes.

4.00     --     harding, john wesley     --     why we fight ri-hb       --
        1992 sire - his third and last album for sire records.  intriguing
folk troubadour.  produced steve berlin.

7.00 -- hindu love gods -- hindu love gods ri --
1990 giant records - warren zevon + rem - michael stipe equals
hindu love gods - out of print.

4.00 -- hindu rodeo -- hindu rodeo ri -- 1995 triad
- band led by singer/songwriter joel sayles - tracks include chasing the
beatles, retro girl, evil white man, i'm only sleeping (cover of beatles
song), 9 others.

4.00 -- johnson, michael -- departure ri --
1995 vanguard - folk lite with a touch of bluegrass provided by the
presence of alison krauss on nearly every track.

4.00 -- knuckles, frankie featuring adeva -- welcome to
the real world pr -- 1995 virgin - more dance grooves from
talented producer - rare copy has wrong song listing on the back cover and
small typewritten xeroxed note with corrected list.

4.00 -- manteca -- extra extra -- 1990 duke st
records - 11 years in 70 minutes, the cover exclaims! - includes two never
before released tracks.

5.00 -- martin guerre: london cast recording -- original
cast pr-nb -- 1996 dreamworks - les miz, miss saigon creators
latest show - promo liner notes on back.

4.00 -- mccoo, marilyn -- the me nobody knows ri --
1991 warner alliance - former fifth dimension singer shows her
christian side in this religious themed cd.

4.00 -- miller, julie -- he walks through walls ri --
1991 myrrh - a higher pitched sam philips soundalike - guest
backing vocals from shawn colvin, victoria williams, mark heard and kelly
willard - lightly christian in theme.

5.00 -- odds -- nest ri -- 1996 - latest from
the canadian princes of hard rockin' pop - literate yet fun - c'mon
america, get with the program!

7.00 -- osbourne, ozzy -- walk on water pr --
1996 geffen - from the beavis/butthead soundtrack, cover and rear
insert has pix of the two little guys - produced by moby! of all people -
one track lp version.

5.00 -- pluto -- pluto ri -- 1996 virgin -
excellent alt band from vancouver combines ramonesy guitars with pop songs
powered by energy and great vocal harmonies.

5.00 -- schimmel, robert -- comes clean ps --
1996 wb - comedy guy known for his explicit subject matter - this
music cd also contains cd-rom tracks for mac and windows.

4.00 -- star 69 -- eating february pr-nb -- 1996
radioactive - web sez: " like the cocteau twins with a backbeat...julie
daniels guides star 69 with her emotional vocals..."

4.00 -- wire train -- no soul, no strain ri --
1992 mca - a little more electric than their self-titled cd.

5.00     --     zelmani, sophie  --     sophie zelmani  ri       --
        1996 sony -  "when i first met sophie zelmani i wondered how this
little slip of a girl could hold a crowd in nyc. she is maybe five feet
with shoulder length brown hair and piercing green eyes that are edged with
dark eyeliner. " -david levine.  for more, visit the cd list spotlight at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~searchme/zelmani.html.

*this week's new adds, various dept*

7.00 -- cmj new music vol 24 (catherine wheel/ani difranco/mighty
mighty bosstones/big sugar) -- various alts -- aug 1995 -
lp tracks leftfield (with john lydon); sun 60; that dog; catchers; a house;
catherine wheel (waydown); scarce; stiffs inc; steel pole bathtub (the 500
club); menthol; govt mule; big sugar (ride like hell); jasper & the
prodigal suns; ani difranco (not a pretty girl); dr dre (keep their heads
ringin' from the friday soundtrack); mighty mighty bosstones (hell of a
hat); screaming headless torsos; kaleid; dissolve - with booklet and rear
sticker.

5.00 -- cmj new music vol 27 (beautiful south/ash/cibo matto) --
various alts -- nov 1995 - lp tracks by sonic youth, ash,
schtum, meat puppets, fledgling, lemons, electrafixation, echobelly (king
of the kerb), black grape (in the name of the father, kensuke shiina, ben
harper, badlees, beautiful south (old red eyes is back), rugburns, rentals
(friends of p), xc-nn, tanner, doa (marijuana motherf*cker), kill culture,
cibo matto (know your chicken) - with booklet and rear sticker.

5.00 -- hitmakers cd sampler vol 121 (barenakedladies/jackson
browne/garbage) -- various precarious pr-nc -- march 15
(beware!), 1996 - lp tracks by bnl (shoe box), garbage (only happy when it
rains, shadowcast, newsboys, jackson browne (some bridges), silk, joe,
cast, la bouche, foo fighters (big me), others - 16 tracks in all!

4.00 -- huh hao 110d (bjork/ricky lee jones/geraldine fibbers) --
various folks pr-scd -- 1995 huh music service - lp tracks
by bjork (isabel), cracker (shake some action from the movie clueless),
odds (truth untold), the seymores, toenut, the rembrandts (this house is
not a home), shed seven, liquorice, pretty & twisted, dance hall crashers
(enough, from the angus soundtrack), you am i, ricky lee jones (horses),
decoryah, the geraldine fibbers (blast off baby).

4.00 -- huh - hao1080d (wilco/low/moist/bracket) --
various alternates scd -- 1995 huh music scene - lp tracks
by goo goo dolls, buffalo tom, bracket, wilco (casino queen), sons of elvis
(soaking in it), soul coughing (sugar free jazz), clouds, low (shame), the
dentists, the bo deans (naked), baby chaos, edna swap (glow), moist
(silver), misery loves co. - in snap-close digipak.

5.00 -- kids at play (dambuilders/jonny polonsky/little john) --
various artists nb -- an unplugged album to benefit the
new england home for little wanderers - tracks by dambuilders, jonny
polonsky, little john, jenifer jackson, the weaklings, expanding man,
talking to animals, the pale brothers, the gravel pit, gigalo aunts,
resolve, poundcake, others - 18 tracks total!

4.00 -- next magazine 005 ((pulp/sepultura/yum yum) --
various alt bands pr -- 1996 frustrated inc - lp tracks by
sepultura (ratamahatta); versus, yum yum (apiary remix), cast, pulp (common
people), boyracer, the why store, iceburn (sphinx <outer>), deftones,
jeremy toback, the obvious, mr. t experience, magic dirt.

7.00 -- nfl country (waylon jennings/asleep at the wheel) --
various c&w ri -- 1996 castle communications - pairings of
football players/coaches with country stars - includes steve azar & brett
favre, toby keith & troy aikman, doug supernaw & hershal walker, glen
campbell & terry bradshaw, etc - tracks include you never know just how
good you've got it, the good old dallas cowboys, boogie back to texas, four
scores & seven beers ago, 6 others.

7.00 -- pow aaa (jann arden/meryn cadell) -- various
artists pr -- performers of the world co - 2 tracks each by david
wilcox, eliza giklyson, willy deville, meryn cadell (two from bombazine),
zachary richard, ron thompson, jann arden (two from time for mercy), zoo
people - also tracks by john cale (d.a. rock & roll), syn.

5.00 -- rock in france '96 -- various frenchmen/women
pr-cp -- the french music office - 11 track overview of french pop,
rock and alternative sounds, with an one inexplicable track, a xmas song,
sung in english by the one only called "sandy."

4.00 -- six toothbrushes (skold/republica/zoe) -- various
alt-ists pr-fs -- 1996 rca - two tracks each by skold (neverland,
anything), republica (ready to go, wrapp), delinquent habits, babe the blue
ox, robert bradley's blackwater surprise, zoe (hammer, the lion roars).

4.00     --     south central compilation vol 1  --     straight off the
streets  ri      --     explicit entertainment - this is the real thing,
liner notes:  "during the making of this album, co-producer roy 'mace man'
taylor was caught in the cross-fire of a drive-by and took two bullets in
the leg." - from the streets of south central to your boom box, "the
bombest cuts."

*dejavu collections*

4.00 -- classic california cuts, vol 1 -- a slice of the
finest in west coast dance -- 1994 city of angels - "the album
ranges from the classic california breakbeat sound, through hardcore
trance, finishing with the deepest sun kissed dub."

5.00 -- concord records presents... -- various jazz pr-cs
-- 1997 stretch/concord - 2 tracks from remembering bud powell
with chick corea, joshua redman, wallace roney, christian mcbride, roy
haynes, kenny garrett; a 10-minute corea piece from three quartets; chick
and joe henderson live ; plus tracks from others.

4.00 -- d3: the mighty ducks (barenaked ladies/queen) ri --
movie soundtrack -- 1996 disney - barenaked ladies
(grade 9), the stone coyotes, the poorboys, southside johnny, dr. john,
queen (we will rock you), the outfield, etc.

4.00 -- family harmony sampler (heart/nat king cole) --
various artists pr -- 1994 capitol - 2 lp tracks each by
heart (will you be there/desire walks on), dave koz, nat king cole, us3
(cantaloop) and i mother earth.

4.00 -- for your ears (pluto/sam phillips) -- various
artists pr-cp -- 1996 virgin - 2 lp tracks each from pluto, sam
phillips, kristen barry, and brendan benson.

5.00 -- hollywood & vine (radiohead/cocteau twins/everclear) --
various artists pr-nc -- 1995 capitol - lp tracks -
radiohead, cocteau twins, luscious jackson, supergrass, menthol, vic
chesnutt, triple fast action (ronnie's pants - non-lp track), everclear
(santa monica), sparklehorse, others.

4.00 -- january sampler (julia fordham/therapy?) --
various artists pr-sc -- 1995 a&m - lp tracks from shawn
stockman (of boyz ii men), julia fordham (someone to watch over me from mr.
holland's opus), therapy? (misery/loose), zucchero.

4.00 -- july 1995 guide (star wars/dean koontz) -- various
warner artists -- odd collectors items includes intro and snippets
from star wars & dean koontz (chase, read by chris sarandon) audio books
plus, ry cooder, doobie bros (hits medley), flipper, jeff foxworthy, milt
jackson, aimee mann, others - no full songs here, just "ads" perhaps for
radio stations, although many of the tracks last 2 or 3 minutes.

5.00 -- money is not the answer (robert forster/grant mclennan) --
various artists -- 1991 beggars banquet - rare tracks by
daniel ash and the charlatans uk, plus lp tracks from gw mclennan, the
dylans, carnival art, buffalo tom & robert forster.

4.00 -- spin this#6 (morphine/goops) -- various artists
pr-cp -- spin magazine - lp tracks by catherine, morphine, d note,
the wolfgang press, belly, archers of loaf, goops, kmfdm - 11 tracks.

4.00 -- the pompatus of love (steve miller/midge ure) --
movie soundtrack ri -- 1996 bmg - steve miller (the
joker), little feat, midge ure, bongo boys, course of empire, porcupine,
love jones, mojo son, others.

4.00     --     under the boardwalk  (the del lords/the drifters)        --
        movie sountrack  --     1988 enigma - out of print soundtrack
includes the untouchables, the surf punks  the surf mcs, the del lords, ike
willis, the smithereens (blood & roses), the drifters.

5.00 -- various artists (luka bloom/paul weller) -- a
little on the cd side, vol 14 -- musician magazine - lp tracks from
jah wobble, vigilantes of love, boingo, paul weller, ali farka toure with
ry cooder, dixie dregs, luka bloom, many others.

5.00 -- various (herb alpert/jan garbarek) -- jazziz
sampler, july 96 pr-cp -- lp tracks by miles w/ gil (springsville);
herb alpert, blue note all-stars, jan garbarek group, others - plus a track
from the kansas city movie soundtrack!

==end==

----------
the cd list guy place - rare (and not so rare) music cds cheaply sold.
visit da web page : http://home.earthlink.net/~searchme/thecdlist.index.html

hey everyone!

    i've been on vacation with my family for a week, and my mailbox has been
full since about halfway through 5/7...  i was just wondering if i'd missed
any earthshaking ig news between 5/7 and today, (5/12)...  any tv appearances
coming up or anything?  any new boots being offered?

thanks for any info...
:) lisa

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 15:57:49 -0400
reply-to: chickensoprano <creechal@aslan.emu.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: chickensoprano <creechal@aslan.emu.edu>
organization: eastern mennonite university
subject: what happens when musicians mature? :)
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last night, my roomie and i were hanging out together, singing songs,
playing guitar, etc.  when my fingers got too tired to play anymore,
we decided to just listen to music.  so, we pulled out rop 'cause it
had our favorite song, lwcty.  i'm sitting there listening to the
music, and i realize, this is what i think of when i think of the
indigo girls.

now, it may be that's because rop was my first ig album. y'know, the
one i fell in love with two years ago. the homey guitar sound and
the beautiful harmonies grabbed a hold of me and wouldn't let go.
and i wonder where they went when the girls made sots.

don't get me wrong, i love the new songs and i think it's wonderful
that they are branching out into different areas. they have grown
musically and are trying out different stuff, which i'm enjoying as
much as the next ig fan. but at the same time, i find myself
yearning for the sweetness of before.

am i alone here?

anna

"i like to write really quiet songs on the electric guitar." -amy ray

http://narnia.emu.edu/pub/students/creechal/creechal.htm

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 15:59:13 -0400
reply-to: heather <hhusted@bu.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: heather <hhusted@bu.edu>
subject: caramia (was re: secret society and a little igc)
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dan perkins commented:
>on an indigo note, has anyone else thought that in caramia emily is
>actually talking to a part of herseslf? i have started to think this
>song is addressing the creative part of herself. often, at least in my
>experience, the creative part of the self is somewhat, well tortured. i
>think this is who emily is talking to, in herself. anyone else?

hmmmm.  i like this, it makes sense.  in some interview, somewhere, emily
once said she would rather be harriet the spy than anyone else.  "a blank
notebook"--she wanted to be a writer (?) i also read.  but the
madness/genius/darkness/science/violence part troubles me.  but then there's
the dreams--as manifestations of the subconscious--which play back to the
creative self idea.  freud, you out there buddy..?  the final words: "i pray
a lot about these bad feelings inside but i can't pray my way through or
around it".  *these* bad feelings *inside*.  hmmm.

yet if she's talking to herself, then "i don't want what's best for you,
where would i be when you've found it?" sounds really weird. perhaps she's
putting her own self-contemplation back on another person she once knew and
making it into a song.

just some thoughts,
heather, who found herself singing "winthrop" this morning, in *french* (try
it, it's fun! pig latin, anybody? ; )
~~~dance like no one is watching, fall in love like you won't get hurt...~~~

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 14:58:28 -0500
reply-to: kraichert@directs.com
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: kraichert@directs.com
subject: new milwaukee radio station (sigc)
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     it's called the point, 106.9. this may have ig potentially! i heard 2
     tracy chapman songs so far!!! check it out. they haven't announced a
     phone number to request anything yet though :( i believe it changed
     from a jazz station to "the point" this past thursday.
     kira "who happens to think messages after ones name are funny" :)

hey, the repeat of shawn colvin on conan o'brien is tuesday may 13th at 12:35
(don't know the permeations of that value across the u.s.) on nbc....

<snort!> giggle...*permeations* :) :)

jude :)

in a message dated 97-05-12 12:40:05 edt, you write:

<< amy. you always say this after you make a record, but
 it's probably my most personal record, my most
 direct, my most literal, my most unhinged. i don't
 care what anybody thinks. this is how i felt; this is
 how i feel. i need to get it out: a "this one's for me"
 kind of feeling. >>

yeah!!!!!!! we have amy's true feelings on cd! =)

have a terrific day!

love,
katie

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 16:52:04 -0400
reply-to: "caroline i. castaneda" <cic1539@is4.nyu.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "caroline i. castaneda" <cic1539@is4.nyu.edu>
subject: re: ig on vh-1
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well,

i spoke with the progammers at vh-1 this afternoon, and they deny the
rumor!  they said they haven't even gotten any new videos from ig, much
less an hour special.  the only ig appearance on vh-1 (according to these
programmer people) was a few years back on naked cafe.  however, they
seemed excited about the possibility of new ig videos.

dare we believe this info????

caroline

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 14:20:20 -0700
reply-to: carolyn chow <egg@u.washington.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: carolyn chow <egg@u.washington.edu>
subject: nigc: caroline aiken/wendy bucklew in seattle
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hey all,

i know someone posted the general info, but i thought i'd give you the
scoop in case you were thinking about it.

caroline and wendy will be at the tractor tavern
thursday, may 15
show starts at 8 pm
admission/tix are $7

the tractor is located at
5213 ballard nw, seattle.

you can call 206-789-3599 for directions.

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 15:29:00 -0600
reply-to: slapshot <jconvers@captain.sc.whecn.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: slapshot <jconvers@captain.sc.whecn.edu>
subject: re: what happens when musicians mature? :)
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i'm with you anna, i also like sots and the new directions the girls have
gone. the sweetness captured me though, and that's probably what i'll
always think of when i think of them. i suppose that's why its good that
three are all those records out there. if i want to listen to rop, i'll
listen to rop. if i want something different, i'll put in sots. as long as
its amy and emily, i'll be happy!

jason

>
> am i alone here?
>
> anna
>

please, everyone who plays guitar, or knows anyone who does- i am
pleading for your help. i am an idiot when it comes to figuring out how
to play songs for myself, so now i need your help. i have been wanting
forever to play back together again, and get together. i know ig didn't
write get together, but i can't find the chords anywhere. please- anyone
who knows these, i would be eternally grateful! i jus thought last night
to ask the ig mailing list, so hopefully someone can help me, and answer
this need-unfulfilled for so long! alright, i'm being a little dramatic,
but i really would love those songs!

~andy

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 17:56:29 -0500
reply-to: lorinda wright <wright@biodec.wustl.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: lorinda wright <wright@biodec.wustl.edu>
subject: imposters!
x-to: dschulman@aol.com
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> question: who is singing the "i'm gonna love you" part at 2:50.  it seems
> way too high for amy.  how can it be emily if she hasn't finished her other
> line.  and i don't seem to recall past cd's having either of the girls
> harmonize with themselves via dubbing  (of course i could be mistaken on
> that one).  deb reiser, did you have a cameo on this album and didn't tell
> me?  :)  was it you, kira?  alycia?  lorinda?  sherlyn?  margaret?  dee?
> it was lynn martin--reprising her role from newport :).  thanks for help
> and input>>

ok deb, let's own up to it. folks, deb reiser and i have a little
confession to make. we sung for the whole album. amy and emily aren't
even on it. (actually that's a lie. amy plays that little rattle...tap!
instrument on hkf, and emily disguises her voice to be the "friend" on
hkf.) other than that, it's all deb and i. i'm the faux amy, and deb's
the faux emily. and so it's me singing the "yeah's" and the "i'm gonna
love you's." we do a pretty good impression, don'tcha think? (but you
caught us on the "yeah's" and "i'm gonna love you's" so i guess it wasn't
perfect.)

ok, now back to reality. :) a couple of people have mentioned that they
never use dubbing to add in their voices to harmonize with themselves.
true (i think) but i've noticed that on sys (i'm pretty sure it's this
one) you can hear amy singing some background vocals underneath her main
vocal line. i think there are also one or two other examples of this sort
of thing throughout their career.

as far as who's singing what? i'm not even gonna go there this time ;)
(although it was really fun last time. _i_ know who's voice is who's, and
that's enough for me. :)

as far as all the ruffled feathers over flame wars: folks, i'm not saying
that flaming's a good thing, or that we should all run out and do it. but
if you're gonna play on the internet (even on a generally flame-free list
like this) you're gonna have to expect the occasional altercation. it's
really not the end of the world, so don't let yourself get upset over
it. i'm just trying to give the kind of advice my mother used to give me.
you know, what doesn't kill us makes us stronger and all that?

and as far as complaints over ellen posts: i personally actually like to
read about "relevant, related" topics, and i have a sneaking suspicion
that a significant proportion of this list feels the same way. yes, i
suppose we could spend 100% of our bandwidth talking about amy's shirt,
emily's hair, and who sings what, but i for one like a little variety.
sure i could get that by going to 16 other lists, but why should i do
that when i personally know a whole slew of people on the list who _are_
interested in the relevant "off topic" posts, and when a good share of
other people on the list seem to enjoy it? for every "please take this to
the ellen list" post we've had about 10 "ellen" posts. so let it go if
the interest is there. this is a discussion list, not a regulate-what-
people-can-say list. i'm not angry, i'm just trying to suggest that
people shouldn't be afraid to post something interesting, or something
with a little controversial content.

folkisgruven y'all,
lorindigo

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 18:49:48 -0500
reply-to: nick fessler <nfessler@indiana.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: nick fessler <nfessler@indiana.edu>
subject: re: need help! (begging and pleading...)
x-to: "andy s. boettcher" <xena44@juno.com>
in-reply-to: <19970512.151457.3294.2.xena44@juno.com>
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this is how i play get together....

get together (chet powers, as performed by the indigo girls)
--capo on 3rd fret

g                                             f
love is a song we sing, and fear's the way we die.
g                                                   f
you can make the mountains ring  or make the angels cry,
g                                                  f
tho' the bird is on the wing  and you may not know why.
c                 d
c'mon people now, smile on your brother.
     g                         c            d         g
ev'rybody get together, try to love one another right now!

some will come and some will go, and we shall surely pass.
when the one that left us here, returns for us at last;
we are but a moment's sunlight, fading in the grass.
c'mon people now, smile on your brother.
ev'rybody get together, try to love one another right now!

if you hear the song i sing, you will understand.
you hold the key to love and fear in your trembling hand,
just one key unlocks them both, it's there at your command.
c'mon people now, smile on your brother.
ev'rybody get together, try to love one another right now!

[g]                                        [f]
if you hear the song i sing, you will understand.
[g]                                                [f]
you hold the key to love and fear in your trembling hand,
[g]                                                   f
just one key unlocks them both, it's there at your command.
c                 d
c'mon people now, smile on your brother.
     g                         c            d         g
ev'rybody get together, try to love one another right now!

c d
c'mon people now, smile on your brother.
g c d g
ev'rybody get together, try to love one another right now!

                               c            d         g
                        try to love one another right now!
                               c            d         g
                        try to love one another right now!

chords:

g:  320033 or 320003
f:  133211 or xx3211
c:  332010 or x32010
d:  200232 or xx0232

i personally play the chords notated above left (i.e., the ones playing
all six
strings).

the second time through the third verse, amy and emily sing much of it
acappella
and so the chords are placed in [] to denote that they are not played on
the cd.

enjoy!
nick fessler
nfessler@indiana.edu

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 19:57:19 -0400
reply-to: lori brinkman <lorbrink@iaw.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: lori brinkman <lorbrink@iaw.com>
subject: pisces branch mama kin/the mix
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now i know that there are more pisces people out there than the 2 requests i
got for this boot, so email me if you would like to get a copy from my
branch! it takes a 60 min tape in sase.

lori

"this is now, this is here, this is me, this is what i wanted you to see."
rem

i've just spent what seems like 5 minutes scrolling through a digest post
describing a gazillion cds or special edition singles or whatever that
someone is selling and i'm not a happy camper. if someone has got a shitload
of merchandise to sell, can they pleeeze post a message about its availability
and invite e-mail responses? sorry to be a crochety about this, but i couldn't
care less about reading about stuff like this (even if there was *one* ig
single offered in the post).

i'm through venting now...

joan :-d

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date: tue, 13 may 1997 00:03:49 gmt
reply-to: lost kitty <noone@home.org>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: lost kitty <noone@home.org>
subject: re: what happens when musicians mature? :)
in-reply-to: <157263a6b9e@aslan.emu.edu>
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on mon, 12 may 1997 15:57:49 -0400, you wrote:

>
>don't get me wrong, i love the new songs and i think it's wonderful
>that they are branching out into different areas. they have grown
>musically and are trying out different stuff, which i'm enjoying as
>much as the next ig fan. but at the same time, i find myself
>yearning for the sweetness of before.
>
>am i alone here?
>
>anna
>
no, i'm adjusting to the changes in the new cd as well. even though
its taken a few listens of sots i'm enjoying it. i'm glad the ig seem
capable of continued growth musically. i mean the rolling stones and
aerosmith have been putting out the same music for years. i think the
ig sensibility is the same just the method of communication has
evolved into something different. sounds like a justification a
little-i occasionally wish for a live all-acoustic project. i hope
that's somewhere in the future for them.

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date: tue, 13 may 1997 00:07:09 gmt
reply-to: lost kitty <noone@home.org>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: lost kitty <noone@home.org>
subject: re: need help! (begging and pleading...)
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on mon, 12 may 1997 15:14:50 -0700, you wrote:

>forever to play back together again, and get together. i know ig didn't
>write get together, but i can't find the chords anywhere. please-
>
>~andy
>
andy you have checked olga right? if nothing is there you might post a
request to alt.guitar.tab and see if someone will help out. speaking
of this does anybody know of there exists a real-life published tab
book of the ig songs?

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 20:24:41 -0400
reply-to: christine cassel-chambers <cchamber@together.net>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: christine cassel-chambers <cchamber@together.net>
subject: time?
mime-version: 1.0
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did anyone happen to see the somewhat short, but otherwise very good,
review of sots in time? if not i could type it out, but i just wanted to
say that i was really excited to read that the girls "...have been so good
for so long..." and to be somewhat compared to michael jordan. =)
have a good night everybody!
-christine

______________________________________________________________________________
                                |       "this world was meant for me,
christine chambers              | don't bury me, carry me...this world falls
cchamber@together.net           | on me with hopes of immortality, everywhere
                                | i turn all the beauty just keeps shaking
                                | me..."
                                |                               a+e=ig
________________________________|_____________________________________________

hi, my name is karen.  my room mate and i are trying to find out if the
indigo girls will be coming to iowa or near iowa in concert.  we are willing
to travel.  i have heard they are traveling with litith fair.  if the person
who reads this e-mail knows if lilith fair or the indigo girls are coming any
where near iowa please e-mail me back.

dyk333@aol.com

thank
you,

karen

can anyone tell me if i can still get tickets to this and if so how?  i
saw a few offers last week, but wasn't sure i could go then.  who on the
list will be there?  is is easy to find?  thanks.

jeremy

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 19:45:24 -0500
reply-to: stankul@ix.netcom.com
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: sue harney <stankul@ix.netcom.com>
subject: michelle malone: thurs, may 15.. la
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

hey all! delurking to bring new of michelle malone playin' luna park in la
this thursday. don't know what time.. but i do know it's a restaurant, and
from what i hear.. 21+
if someone already posted this, you'll get over it. ;)
=<peace>=
 em

hi,

i have missed some messages lately so someone may have already said
this......but i just found out ig is definitely scheduled (in my area,
san diego, anyway) for the pay per view event on friday, june 6th at
6:00p.m. west coast time. it will replay at 9:00 p.m. the cost is
$14.95.

bye,

on 05/12/97, the awesome lori brinkman said:

>now i know that there are more pisces people out there than the 2
>requests i got for this boot, so email me if you would like to get a copy
>from my branch! it takes a 60 min tape in sase.

same goes for the capicorn branch!! send me those sases....or would it be
sasei? hmmm....another useless point to ponder tonight. that and the fact
that frogs advertising beer seems to appeal to my immature side...

-liz-

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 21:57:25 -0400
reply-to: lori brinkman <lorbrink@iaw.com>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: lori brinkman <lorbrink@iaw.com>
subject: get together
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the tab is available in the strange fire music book. =)
lori

"this is now, this is here, this is me, this is what i wanted you to see."
rem

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date: mon, 12 may 1997 22:52:20 -400
reply-to: "mail from cindy (lucky you!)" <gossett@centre.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "mail from cindy (lucky you!)" <gossett@centre.edu>
organization: centre college
subject: me chords (nigc)

k, i know this has nothing to do with the girls, but does anyone know
the chords for the melissa song maggie may?

thanks a million!! =o)

cindy

**************************************************************************************************************************

i'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
-bailey howe library, university of vermont. burlington, vermont.
(note to self: cancel frontal lobotomy)

fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
-the bayou, baton rouge, louisiana.

http://www.geocities.com/collegepark/quad/8541/poptartcindy.html
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

in a message dated 97-05-12 21:48:33 edt, wright@biodec.wustl.edu (lorinda
wright) writes:

<<
ok deb, let's own up to it. folks, deb reiser and i have a little
confession to make. we sung for the whole album. amy and emily aren't
even on it. (actually that's a lie. amy plays that little rattle...tap!
instrument on hkf, and emily disguises her voice to be the "friend" on
hkf.) other than that, it's all deb and i. i'm the faux amy, and deb's
the faux emily. and so it's me singing the "yeah's" and the "i'm gonna
love you's." we do a pretty good impression, don'tcha think? (but you
caught us on the "yeah's" and "i'm gonna love you's" so i guess it wasn't
perfect.) >>

it's the milli vanilli scandal all over again!!! just because they beat out
ig for best new artist doesn't justify these sort of actions. :-)

smiles : )
annemarie

~~~http://members.aol.com/debatediva/index.html~~~

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date: fri, 9 may 1997 06:38:30 -0800
reply-to: lbrown@scruznet.com
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: larissa brown <lbrown@scruznet.com>
organization: sappho graphics
subject: trying not to flame
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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hi list,

i am going to respond to this one. i'm way offended. my quaker
sensibilities and the whole rest of me and probably some parts of me
yall have never met are offended.

>attitudes seem to be closely monitored by what i characterize as a
>small group of immature mili-dykes. (note to all immature militant
>dykes-i will simply delete flames and not respond). we're all here
>because we like the ig but god help the poor sob that unknowingly
>writes something politically incorrect.

okay i am not a flame-gurl but i have this thing about decency.

i have been on thislist off and on for, i guess at least two years.
(derek made me aware of this recently, i had lost track.)

i've never had anyone make me quite so mad.

now, i don't know if i'm a "immature mili-dyke" or not.

i hate political correctness. it silences people.

i have never felt silenced here, but i also probably have most of the
more um, "popular" viewpoints.

this list is about the indigo girls but it is also about all of us.

there is no reason to be so insulting as the person who called many of
us such awful names and implied virtual list fascism has done.
this little flame goes, imho, way beyond spelling, peta, or even "who
said moo".

please everyone

express your opinions

but don't be so insulting as to assumne so much.
i hope i've made some sense.
sorry i don't really care about capitali-fucking-zation, etc.
(right now)
love,

larissa the non-violent quaker bi-sexual queer gurl who still loves this
messed up list.

hiya all,

sorry to waste bandwidth, but...

megan & matt, i met you on saturday at the payless in kent waiting to buy
ig tickets for the pier. could you e-mail me if you get this message?

hope to hear from you,

andrea
annotatedherb@juno.com

p.s. sorry for the bulk everyone!

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=========================================================================
date: mon, 12 may 1997 21:22:26 -0600
reply-to: corinne <corinne@utah-inter.net>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: corinne <corinne@utah-inter.net>
subject: nigc: looking for tom, veronica
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hey kids...

i am looking for tom jobe (sp?) and simply v (veronica).  tucker has some
tapes she owes you and needs your snail mail addys.  if you two would
please write me and tell me your addresses so she can get those tapes to
you, i would appreciate it.  was that grammatically correct?  hmm.

corinne

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=========================================================================
date: mon, 12 may 1997 20:57:12 -0800
reply-to: lbrown@scruznet.com
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: larissa brown <lbrown@scruznet.com>
organization: sappho graphics
subject: dumb me (nigc - nec, either :)
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and now for something completely different,

could someone forward me the music central url?

i can't find either the old post or any helpful search engines to give
it to me. :(

-larissa, who wants to hear amy talk about drugs :0

>ok deb, let's own up to it. folks, deb reiser and i have a little
>confession to make. we sung for the whole album. amy and emily aren't
>even on it.

hey! i knew it! i just knew it! you crazy ole ig girlie girls :)

>this is a discussion list, not a regulate-what-
>people-can-say list. i'm not angry, i'm just trying to suggest that
>people shouldn't be afraid to post something interesting, or something
>with a little controversial content.

yeah what lorinda said :) but no sorority chat or requests for quiche
recipes!!!!!!! (please) :p

i just wanted to say that since all the igc has come back to the list i
have gone a full 2 months without a flame. a fresh record! hold your
applause.

tired and experiencing withoutyouness i bid adieu

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=========================================================================
date: tue, 13 may 1997 01:34:25 -400
reply-to: "mail from cindy (lucky you!)" <gossett@centre.edu>
sender: indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
from: "mail from cindy (lucky you!)" <gossett@centre.edu>
organization: centre college
subject: (fwd) me chords (nigc)

i've been informed that this is actually a rod stewart song... knew
it was someone but wasn't sure who... anyway, the question still
stands, if anyone knows...
thanks! =o)

------- forwarded message follows -------
priority: normal
date: mon, 12 may 1997 22:52:20 -400
reply-to: "mail from cindy (lucky you!)" <gossett@centre.edu>
from: "mail from cindy (lucky you!)" <gossett@centre.edu>
organization: centre college
subject: me chords (nigc)
to: indigo-girls@netspace.org