lifeblood: listlogs: 2001-09b


=========================================================================
date:         sat, 8 sep 2001 00:37:26 -0700
reply-to:     ryan blackhawke <hawke210@home.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         ryan blackhawke <hawke210@home.com>
subject:      indigo girls pics on my site
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excuse the mess as i redesign my site but for all of you who were awaiting
anxiously for the pics from the 7/19/01 show at the pier in seattle, they
are now available. just point your browser to
http://hawke2.com/pictures.htm. please heed the warning on the page.
ryan

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=========================================================================
date:         sat, 8 sep 2001 13:03:00 +0200
reply-to:     kathrin_siegmund@gmx.de
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         kathrin siegmund <kathrin_siegmund@gmx.de>
subject:      early rec cds are spoken for

hi!

the early rec cds are taken.
i will contact few people who wanted them and didn't make it in time
and try to arrange trades (if only for blank cds and postage).
unfortunately i can't just go ahead and mail copies to everyone who
wants them, the postage would kill me;).

anyway, i will get back to everyone who wrote me so far about it.

take care,
kathrin

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=========================================================================
date:         sat, 8 sep 2001 23:30:36 -0400
reply-to:     diane gagnon <dispdmg@fastdial.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         diane gagnon <dispdmg@fastdial.net>
subject:      nigc: concert dates upcoming in northampton
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thought these might be of interest to some indigo girls fans....

iron horse music hall

wed, oct 10 ferron 7pm, $18.50

sun, nov. 25 cheryl wheeler 7pm, $18

the calvin theater

sun, sept. 16 nanci griffith 7pm, $38.50, $32.50, $27.50

fri, oct. 5 dar williams 8pm, $32.50, $27.50, $17.50

details for all above at http://www.iheg.com/

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
diane gagnon
im'er: dispdmg

remember that you have a soul just as you have a body
and a social self. do not starve it.

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=========================================================================
date:         sun, 9 sep 2001 01:54:24 edt
reply-to:     indigome1@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "<amanda morgan>" <indigome1@aol.com>
subject:      sigc...help
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hi all!  i need a little help.  i am switching isps and i can't remember how
to unsubscribe from the list and then resubscribe under my new email account.
i can't live without my daily dose of indigo girls, so any help would be
greatly appreciated.

thanks,
amanda

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<html><font face=arial,helvetica><font  size=2>hi all!  i need a little help.  i am switching isps and i can't remember how to unsubscribe from the list and then resubscribe under my new email account.  i can't live without my daily dose of indigo girls, so any help would be greatly appreciated.
<br>
<br>thanks,
<br>amanda</font></html>

--part1_16a.91b8de.28cc5e10_boundary--

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=========================================================================
date:         sun, 9 sep 2001 16:06:51 +0000
reply-to:     tom xxxxx <getula@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tom xxxxx <getula@hotmail.com>
subject:      re: europ. listees: early rec cds giveaway: tracklist
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; format=flowed

>
>sorry, forgot to add the tracklist for those who might not know about
>the early rec cds...
>

> >  - wysteria

is this a cover of the richard shindell song? if so, it's a great song and
the girls must do a splendid version.

tom
"all the carnage of my journeys
makes it harder to be livin'
he said, 'it's a long road to be forgiven."
amy ray, "chickenman"


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=========================================================================
date:         sun, 9 sep 2001 18:49:04 +0200
reply-to:     kathrin_siegmund@gmx.de
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         kathrin siegmund <kathrin_siegmund@gmx.de>
subject:      re: europ. listees: early rec cds giveaway: tracklist
in-reply-to:  <f69zdftvsxzw234xoji0000c8d9@hotmail.com>

<color><param>0100,0100,0100</param>hi!


it's actually not the shindell song but a song written by dan
fogelberg.


<fontfamily><param>times new roman</param><bigger><bigger>{hyperlink "/lyrics/fogelbergdan/wysteria.asp"}<fontfamily><param>arial</param><smaller><smaller>wysteria, did you
change your face
again
those of us who loved you when
can't even find you.

wysteria, did you lose another man
did you make him understand
that he can't touch you.

wysteria, did he take you to the fair?
were the folks that you met there
the same that we met?
wysteria, did he teach you how
to dance
did he bring you paper fans
to hide your secret?

was he just like all the rest
when he got to the sad part
did he stay a bit too long
to save his heart.

wysteria, are your lips still lily white
do they still bloom just
at night and die at sunrise?


http://www.davemcnally.com/lyrics/fogelbergdan/homefree/


take care,

kathrin


oh, for people who don't know the shindell song:

http://www.gregorysteele.com/music/wisteria.txt

that's the guitar tab for it, actually...

:)

<nofill>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the opposite of love is indifference
the opposite of life is not death
it's indifference
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.geocities.com/kathrin_ig

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=========================================================================
date:         mon, 10 sep 2001 00:54:55 +0000
reply-to:     tom xxxxx <getula@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tom xxxxx <getula@hotmail.com>
subject:      re: europ. listees: early rec cds giveaway: tracklist
x-to:         kathrin_siegmund@gmx.de
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; format=flowed

thanks for the lyrics and info. that was nice of you.

tom

"all the carnage of my journeys
makes it harder to be livin'
he said, 'it's a long road to be forgiven."
amy ray, "chickenman"

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=========================================================================
date:         mon, 10 sep 2001 11:54:56 -0500
reply-to:     amanda <media@mightymedia.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         amanda <media@mightymedia.com>
subject:      amy ray quoted in city pages
in-reply-to:  <3b911221.784c071@michaelvox.com>
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i meant to send this to the list last week, but forgot.

the article is about ladyfest midwest.  the url to print version of
the story is below.

http://www.citypages.com/databank/printing.asp?articleid=9791

happy reading,
amanda

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=========================================================================
date:         tue, 11 sep 2001 03:32:36 +1000
reply-to:     sherlyn koo <sherlyn@fl.net.au>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         sherlyn koo <sherlyn@fl.net.au>
subject:      city pages article excerpt
x-to:         ig-news@smoe.org
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

hey folks,

here's the relevant sections from the minneapolis/st paul
citypages mentioned earlier.  the entire article can be
read here:
http://www.citypages.com/databank/22/1082/article9791.asp

-sherlyn


---begin article---
she bop
music - vol 22 - issue 1082 - posted 8/29/01

by melissa maerz

don't call it cock rock: cynthia plaster caster at ladyfest
image by melissa maerz
from panel discussions to boobs aflame, feminism and punk rock
form a holy union at chicago's ladyfest

[...]

ladyfest midwest--featuring slumber party, dj minx, the
butchies, shannonwright, sally timms, the puta-pons, the
hissyfits, bratmobile, and minneapolis's own effloresce (see
"road trip," right)--is a significant, though perhaps small,
step in honoring and supporting women in rock. the four-day
festival kicks off with high-profile performances by agit-pop
punk-rappers-cum-spin favorites le tigre and former indigo
girl/rockabilly queercore mama amy ray.

speaking by telephone before the start of ladyfest, ray
expresses her enthusiasm for the event, especially in
comparison to sister lilith. "i felt really out of place at
lilith," she says. "there was a lot of hidden homophobia, and
just a general lack of diversity. all of the straight white
artists would be standing in the middle of the dressing room,
and there was always the lesbian artist and the black artist
grouped together on the far wing. it was like a sad microcosm
of society."

ray celebrates ladyfest's commitment to remaining
anti-corporate and independent. "i'm realizing that it's hard
to get people to change their biases without being exposed to
something in a mainstream way," she admits. "when i'm down at
the diner, sitting next to my neighbor who has a confederate
flag hanging outside his house, and i want to know how to
bridge the gap between us, he says something like, 'well, i
think that ellen degeneres is all right.' and i think,
television! tv is what makes him not want to burn me and
other lesbians at the stake!...but when there's no access for
women at all in the mainstream--in the power-hungry,
homogenized media and music industry--you really have to
build smaller coalitions among the people who are left out of
that system. and that's what ladyfest is trying to do."

does that mean ladyfest is working within the separatist
spirit of punk rock? "for me, punk is a philosophy, not an
aesthetic," ray explains. "the idea behind punk is, that
music is a community of people who don't have a voice in
society, and yet these people can come together to hear their
voice through music."

[...]

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=========================================================================
date:         mon, 10 sep 2001 11:09:03 -0700
reply-to:     "riney, loralei" <loralei.riney@bannerhealth.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "riney, loralei" <loralei.riney@bannerhealth.com>
subject:      nigc nmc, movie ....what makes a fmaily
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

just curious if anyone say the m,ovie with brooke shield sin it
yesterday...what makes a family. true story of the florida couple ( lesbian)
who had a daughter, one partner dies of sle, lupus and her parents took the
child away from other partner( brooke).
just curious if anyone say it.
i taped it. but i don't know if i should let my daughter 7yrs, watch it. i
want her to on one hand to see that our family is not so weird....but the
fight of the grandparents taking the child are rough. i had to leave the
room because of it. just having gotten my daughter back from my mom , tho it
was not ugly or anything...

just curious...
sparkie

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=========================================================================
date:         mon, 10 sep 2001 12:48:54 -0500
reply-to:     foxmuldr@voyager.net
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         rick hodgin <foxmuldr@voyager.net>
subject:      nigc - marriage
content-type: text/plain
mime-version: 1.0

my long-time girlfriend (sammi sanford) and i are getting married on
november 10th.  this list has been a very important part of my life
for a very long time.  this is (obviously) a significant event in my
life and i just wanted to share it with everyone here. :)

thank you for being the wonderful people that you are (most of you,
anyway). heeheh :)

- rick c. hodgin

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=========================================================================
date:         mon, 10 sep 2001 15:06:53 edt
reply-to:     subcityii@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         subcityii@aol.com
subject:      nigc: la times anne heche article
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anyone who wants to read an article about
ms. heche's appearence on the larry king
show on cnn, use the link below. the
article is funny and a little bizarre:

http://www.calendarlive.com/top/1,1419,l-latimes-tv-x!articledetail-42252,00.html

-scott

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=========================================================================
date:         mon, 10 sep 2001 15:29:11 -0400
reply-to:     oyster toadfish <chickenwomyn@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         oyster toadfish <chickenwomyn@hotmail.com>
subject:      re: city pages article excerpt
mime-version: 1.0
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*former*??

whatever!! they are working on a new album.  some interviewers, you'd think
they were asleep.

rockabilly queercore has a nice ring though :)  even if johnny rotten isnt
quiet rockabilly.
carol

*****
the four-day
festival kicks off with high-profile performances by agit-pop
punk-rappers-cum-spin favorites le tigre and former indigo
girl/rockabilly queercore mama amy ray.
****

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=========================================================================
date:         mon, 10 sep 2001 14:53:58 -0500
reply-to:     barbara bordner <ritesofpassage9@webtv.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         barbara bordner <ritesofpassage9@webtv.net>
subject:      re: city pages article excerpt
x-to:         sherlyn koo <sherlyn@fl.net.au>
in-reply-to:  sherlyn koo <sherlyn@fl.net.au>'s message of tue, 11 sep 2001
              03:32:36 +1000
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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mime-version: 1.0 (webtv)

amy ray? a "former" indigo girl?  (to the author i say) " oh gads ! man
get your facts straight!"

whatever happened to the concept  of thoroughly researching your
sources?

before i go, the emphasis on the word "former" is mine.

peace
barb

"from the embattled studios of wbai studios of the banned and fired,
studios of our listeners" amy goodman,now broadcasting democracy now! in
exile
and suspended sans pay, for relocating dn! due to  unsafe working
conditions. email uleid@excote.net  tell
her the harassment at her station has got to go.

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=========================================================================
date:         mon, 10 sep 2001 20:04:49 -0400
reply-to:     madonajk <madonajk@alpha.delta.edu>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         madonajk <madonajk@alpha.delta.edu>
subject:      amy and butchies show to listen to on the net
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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http://sa.mlive.com/cafe/

amy ray & the butchies

of the indigo girls, amy ray isn't the gentle, laid-back one. so, for her solo
debut, stag, fans can expect a harder, more punk-driven sound. she stopped by
with the butchies for a plugged-in set.

go listen to the show

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=========================================================================
date:         mon, 10 sep 2001 21:03:18 -0400
reply-to:     editrix@nc.rr.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tracy hart <editrix@nc.rr.com>
subject:      nigc: guitar question
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

hey all you guitar-player types:

having just now reached the point where i can kinda play songs instead
of kinda playing chords one at time, i want to try using a thumbpick for
a change instead of a regular pick. but all the thumbpicks i can find
are huge! the smalls aren't nearly small enough. is there a place out
there that sells xs thumbpicks? does the universe have any sympathy for
a chick with small hands?

and if there's no such thing as a ready-made xs thumbpick, got any
suggestions for converting a regular s into something that will actually
stay in place? lining the pick with masking tape just isn't doing it for me.


thanks-


tracy

editrix@nc.rr.com

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=========================================================================
date:         tue, 11 sep 2001 09:01:07 -0400
reply-to:     shedyourskin 23 <shedyourskin23@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         shedyourskin 23 <shedyourskin23@hotmail.com>
subject:      butchies tickets nigc
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; format=flowed

hey everybody...i have two tickets to the butchies show at cat's cradle on
saturday september 29th. unfortunately i am not going to be able to make the
trek from atlanta to chapel hill that weekend and didn't want them to go to
waste. email me privately if you want them. i paid $16 for two ($7 each and
$1 service charge). i really want someone to use these so even if $$ is an
issue email me anyway. peace.

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=========================================================================
date:         tue, 11 sep 2001 09:47:30 -0400
reply-to:     jill certo <jillyc@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jill certo <jillyc@hotmail.com>
subject:      nigc
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; format=flowed

45 mins ago two terrorist planes were deliberately flown into the world
trade center, the pentagon has just been bombed (2 mins ago, just saw live
footage on tv), white house has been evacuated, palestinians claiming
responsibility.  go turn on your television.  welcome to your america.

_________________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
date:         tue, 11 sep 2001 17:56:59 +0100
reply-to:     john bond <john.bond@lineone.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         john bond <john.bond@lineone.net>
subject:      re: nigc
mime-version: 1.0
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just wanted to send out sympathy to anybody directly or indirectly affected
by this tragedy.

john.

----- original message -----
from: "jill certo" <jillyc@hotmail.com>
to: <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
sent: tuesday, september 11, 2001 2:47 pm
subject: nigc


> 45 mins ago two terrorist planes were deliberately flown into the world
> trade center, the pentagon has just been bombed (2 mins ago, just saw live
> footage on tv), white house has been evacuated, palestinians claiming
> responsibility.  go turn on your television.  welcome to your america.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> get your free download of msn explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
> --
> do not quote other peoples' entire messages when replying to the list.
> indigo girls faq and indigo girls mailing list faq:
> http://www.fl.net.au/~sherlyn/ig
>
>

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=========================================================================
date:         tue, 11 sep 2001 12:04:42 -0500
reply-to:     "kovacs, mirinda" <mirinda.kovacs@westgroup.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "kovacs, mirinda" <mirinda.kovacs@westgroup.com>
subject:      re: nigc
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

i'm there with you too john.  this is such a sad day for our country and so
many families.  my sympathies go to all.
-mi rinda

-----original message-----
from: john bond [mailto:john.bond@lineone.net]
sent: tuesday, september 11, 2001 11:57 am
to: indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org
subject: re: nigc


just wanted to send out sympathy to anybody directly or indirectly affected
by this tragedy.

john.

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=========================================================================
date:         tue, 11 sep 2001 13:13:12 edt
reply-to:     lisa071573@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         lisa071573@aol.com
subject:      everyone ok?
mime-version: 1.0
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just thought i'd check to see how everyone is doing right now...

lisa (san diego)

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=========================================================================
date:         tue, 11 sep 2001 13:33:51 -0500
reply-to:     traci drago <n_d_go_grl@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         traci drago <n_d_go_grl@hotmail.com>
subject:      re: everyone ok?
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petrified, and stunned?  hoping our leaders know what to do and choose the
right path to take.

traci drago
st. louis, mo
also at n_d_go@hotmail.com

"is it really worth it if it isn't worth fighting for?" mm


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date:         tue, 11 sep 2001 13:37:39 -0700
reply-to:     amy swenson <amy_indigirl@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         amy swenson <amy_indigirl@yahoo.com>
subject:      good wishes in wake of tragedy
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hey all -

my good thoughts and wishes for all of us during this time. i hope
everyone is ok, and all of your loved ones as well.

:(
amy

=====
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=========================================================================
date:         tue, 11 sep 2001 17:13:20 edt
reply-to:     accoats@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         accoats@aol.com
subject:      on the radio
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hkf-- some of you guys may have heard this....but my girlfriend and i were driving back from the lake this weekend <a top lookout mountain...> and were were listening to what is a b'ham station 103.7 sunday night and they were doing some show called women rockers today <or something along that line> anyhow they had a short interview with amy and how southern music has influenced the indigo girls. she went on to say <and i am paraphrasing here> that southern music is angry but we handle the views almost politely....with our hospitality.  music is also filled with very rich imagry and very bold colors....  it was a very cool one min. interview in which they followed up with shame on you. needless to say we were extactic and singing to the top of our lungs down the highway-- that is till that damn siren went off!! get's us everytime! anyhow...just thought i'd pass along the info.  take care-- ashley

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=========================================================================
date:         tue, 11 sep 2001 21:50:06 +0000
reply-to:     robbin love <robbin_150@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         robbin love <robbin_150@hotmail.com>
subject:      war resisters league exec committee statement
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this is not an official statement of the war resisters league but
was drafted immediately after the tragic events occurred. signed and
issued by the staff and executive committee of war resisters league in the
national office, september 11, 2001.


  contact calls: wrl - 212-228.0450 also david mcreynolds 212-674.7268

  i'm writing this from home - the wrl office email is down, but i was
present when this statement was drafted and said i'd take the text home
to transmit at once. david mcreynolds

  as we write, manhattan feels under siege, with all bridges, tunnels,
and subways closed, and tens of thousands of people walking slowly north
from lower manhattan. as we sit in our offices here at war resisters league,
our most immediate thoughts are of the hundreds, if not thousands, of new
yorkers who have lost their lives in the collapse of the world trade center.
the day is clear, the sky is blue, but vast clouds billow over the ruins
where so many have died, including a great many rescue workers who were
there when the final collapse occurred.

  of course we know our friends and co-workers in washington d.c. have
similar thoughts about the ordinary people who have been trapped in the
parts of the pentagon which were also struck by a jet. and we think of
the innocent passengers on the hi-jacked jets who were carried to their doom
on this day.

  we do not know at this time from what source the attack came. we do
know that yasser arafat has condemned the bombing. we hesitate to make an
extended analysis until more information is available but some things
are clear. for the bush administration to talk of spending hundreds of
billions on star wars is clearly the sham it was from the beginning, when
terrorism can so easily strike through more routine means.

  we urge congress and george bush that whatever response or policy the
u.s. develops it will be clear that this nation will no longer target
civilians, or accept any policy by any nation which targets civilians. this
would mean an end to the sanctions against iraq, which have caused the
deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians. it would mean not only a
condemnation of terrorism by palestinians but also the policy of
assassination against the palestinian leadership by israel, and the ruthless
repression of the palestinian population and the continuing occupation by
israel of the west bank and gaza.

  the policies of militarism pursued by the united states have resulted
in millions of deaths, from the historic tragedy of the indochina war,
through the funding of death squads in central america and colombia, to the
sanctions and air strikes against iraq. this nation is the largest
supplier of "conventional weapons" in the world - and those weapons fuel the
starkest kind of terrorism from indonesia to africa. the early policy of
support for armed resistance in afghanistan resulted in the victory of the
taliban - and the creation of osama bin laden.

  other nations have also engaged in these policies. we have, in years
past, condemned the actions of the russian government in areas such as
chechnya, the violence on both sides in the middle east, and in the balkans.
but our nation must take responsibility for its own actions. up until now we
have felt safe within our borders. to wake on a clear cool day to find our
largest city under seige reminds us that in a violent world, none are safe.

  let us seek an end of the militarism which has characterized this
nation for decades. let us seek a world in which security is gained through
disarmament, international cooperation, and social justice - not through
escalation and retaliation. we condemn without reservation attacks such as
those which occured today, which strike at thousands of civilians - may
these profound tragedies remind us of the impact u.s. policies have had on
other civilians in other lands. we are  particularly aware of the fear which
many people of middle eastern descent, living in this country, may feel at
this time and urge special consideration for this community.

  we are one world. we shall live in a state of fear and terror or we
shall move toward a future in which we seek peaceful alternatives to
conflict and a more just distribution of the world's resources. as we mourn
the many lives lost, our hearts call out for reconciliation, not revenge.

                        ###


~robbin

========
"our father's house is a house of regret, with rooms i can't sleep in and
jokes i don't get." --amy ray


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=========================================================================
date:         tue, 11 sep 2001 19:08:40 edt
reply-to:     woodelldc@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         woodelldc@aol.com
subject:      a sad day
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i wish peace and healing to the world tonight and the days ahead. it has been
such a sad day.
even the usually "chatty" birds in my neighborhood have gone into mourning.
it was deathly quiet in my world today.
deb

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=========================================================================
date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 03:13:31 -0700
reply-to:     ryan blackhawke <ryan@hawke2.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         ryan blackhawke <ryan@hawke2.com>
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my brother is a civilian who works for the military making sure their
communications system stays up. he is often at the pentagon. thankfully,
today was not one of those days. my lawyer lost many friends who worked at
wtc.

i was in shock, numb, disbelieving. now i am quaking with rage. were i not
too old and if i didn't have an f-4 on my discharge papers, i'd be at the
recruiters office today. yes, i am vengeful. and right now i just do not
care what anyone thinks about that. maybe in a day, week, year, decade,
lifetime i'll be able to be a little more calm about this. <last line
deleted for being too inflammatory>.

my entire family has a military background. my brother worked for the white
house during the ray-gun bush years. my grandpa was in all 3 branches of the
service (there was no air force when he was in.....it was handled by the
other services). all of my uncles served. my mother lost 2 of her brothers
in wwii. i served and would still be in today had they not politely asked me
to leave back in 1990.
ryan

> -----original message-----

> just thought i'd check to see how everyone is doing right now...
>
> lisa (san diego)

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date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 07:02:30 edt
reply-to:     atlmouse@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         atlmouse@aol.com
subject:      re: everyone ok?
x-to:         lisa071573@aol.com, indigo-girls@netspace.org
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ok here in atlanta....  i work for a community blood center and we have been
extremely busy!  we saw over 400 donor yesterday, and expect even more today.

it's wonderful to seee the community turning out in an event such as this,
but it saddens me to think that it takes someting this extreme to make people
aware of the everyday need for blood.

if you've got it, give it!!!

thanks!
~~robin

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date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 10:45:13 -0400
reply-to:     jill certo <jillyc@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jill certo <jillyc@hotmail.com>
subject:      okay in cleve
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a couple websites for you-- please forward them around.

if you want to report that someone is safe, or search to see if they are, go
to http://safe.millennium.berkeley.edu/

to report any information or possible tips, the fbi has set up the site
http://www.ifccfbi.gov , or you can call 866/483-5167.

i work in downtown cleveland; yesterday was a long, terrible nightmare.  my
office was clustered around the tv, watching things unfold, watching the
pentagon in flames in real time, watching the world trade towers sway
lightly in the wind and crumple.  we listened as the plane crashes and
terrorism got closer and closer-- first nyc, then dc, then camp david, then
pennsylvania.  it seemed to us they were systematically moving west, looking
for big buildings in big cities.  we work in a big building in a big city;
we thought we were next.

downtown was evacuated and abandoned as we all tried to get out of the city
and go home.  from our window on the 15th floor, i watched streams of suited
businessmen and women pour from the office towers.  we all tried to get on
the same two highways at once; it was rush hour at 11:30 in the morning.
the cleveland hopkins airport was closed, no traffic was permitted in or
out.  nasa was shut down.  parking downtown was banned.  the gas pumps
looked like parking lots; rumor had it, gasoline would be $5 a gallon this
morning <http://www.newsnet5.com/news/957470/detail.html>.  no one was on
the highway.  not a light in the sky.  my stepfather said this all reminded
him of when he was a kid; later, i realized that he was a kid during world
war ii.

today it is preternaturally quiet in cleveland.  traffic is sparse.  the air
is somber and cool.  all the schools are closed.  everyone seems to be
walking and looking down at the concrete out of either reassurance or
disbelief, as if they don't trust it to hold them.

jill


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=========================================================================
date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 10:55:08 -0400
reply-to:     havanamoon <havana_moon@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         havanamoon <havana_moon@hotmail.com>
subject:      another perspective from michael moore
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hey all,

thought this message from michael moore raised some important questions...

tim

death, downtown

dear friends,

i was supposed to fly today on the 4:30 pm american airlines flight from
lax to jfk. but tonight i find myself stuck in l.a. with an incredible
range of emotions over what has happened on the island where i work and
live in new york city.

my wife and i spent the first hours of the day -- after being awakened by
phone calls from our parents at 6:40am pt -- trying to contact our daughter
at school in new york and our friend joann who works near the world trade
center.

i called joann at her office. as someone picked up, the first tower
imploded, and the person answering the phone screamed and ran out, leaving
me no clue as to whether or not she or joann would live.

it was a sick, horrible, frightening day.

on december 27, 1985 i found myself caught in the middle of a terrorist
incident at the vienna airport -- which left 30 people dead, both there and
at the rome airport. (the machine-gunning of passengers in each city was
timed to occur at the same moment.)

i do not feel like discussing that event tonight because it still brings up
too much despair and confusion as to how and why i got to live? a fluke, a
mistake, a few feet on the tarmac, and i am still here, there but for the
grace of?

safe. secure. i'm an american, living in america. i like my illusions. i
walk through a metal detector, i put my carry-ons through an x-ray machine,
and i know all will be well.

here's a short list of my experiences lately with airport security:

* at the newark airport, the plane is late at boarding everyone. the
counter can't find my seat. so i am told to just ?go ahead and get on? --
without a ticket!

* at detroit metro airport, i don't want to put the lunch i just bought at
the deli through the x-ray machine so, as i pass through the metal
detector, i hand the sack to the guard through the space between the
detector and the x-ray machine. i tell him ?it's just a sandwich.? he
believes me and doesn't bother to check. the sack has gone through neither
security device.

* at laguardia in new york, i check a piece of luggage, but decide to catch
a later plane. the first plane leaves without me, but with my bag -- no one
knowing what is in it.

* back in detroit, i take my time getting off the commuter plane. by the
time i have come down its stairs, the bus that takes the passengers to the
terminal has left -- without me. i am alone on the tarmac, free to wander
wherever i want. so i do. eventually, i flag down a pick-up truck and an
airplane mechanic gives me a ride the rest of the way to the terminal.

* i have brought knives, razors; and once, my traveling companion brought a
hammer and chisel. no one stopped us.

of course, i have gotten away with all of this because the airlines
consider my safety so important, they pay rent-a-cops $5.75 an hour to make
sure the bad guys don't get on my plane. that is what my life is worth --
less than the cost of an oil change.

too harsh, you say? well, chew on this: a first-year pilot on american
eagle (the commuter arm of american airlines) receives around $15,000 a
year in annual pay.

that's right -- $15,000 for the person who has your life in his hands.
until recently, continental express paid a little over $13,000 a year.
there was one guy, an american eagle pilot, who had four kids so he went
down to the welfare office and applied for food stamps -- and he was
eligible!

someone on welfare is flying my plane? is this for real? yes, it is.

so spare me the talk about all the precautions the airlines and the faa is
taking. they, like all businesses, are concerned about one thing -- the
bottom line and the profit margin.

four teams of 3-5 people were all able to penetrate airport security on the
same morning at 3 different airports and pull off this heinous act? my only
response is -- that's all?

well, the pundits are in full diarrhea mode, gushing on about the
?terrorist threat? and today's scariest dude on planet earth -- osama bin
laden. hey, who knows, maybe he did it. but, something just doesn't add up.

am i being asked to believe that this guy who sleeps in a tent in a desert
has been training pilots to fly our most modern, sophisticated jumbo jets
with such pinpoint accuracy that they are able to hit these three targets
without anyone wondering why these planes were so far off path?

or am i being asked to believe that there were four religious/political
fanatics who just happened to be skilled airline pilots who just happened
to want to kill themselves today?

maybe you can find one jumbo jet pilot willing to die for the cause -- but
four? ok, maybe you can -- i don't know.

what i do know is that all day long i have heard everything about this bin
laden guy except this one fact -- we created the monster known as osama bin
laden!

where did he go to terrorist school? at the cia!

don't take my word for it -- i saw a piece on msnbc last year that laid it
all out. when the soviet union occupied afghanistan, the cia trained him
and his buddies in how to commits acts of terrorism against the soviet
forces. it worked! the soviets turned and ran. bin laden was grateful for
what we taught him and thought it might be fun to use those same techniques
against us.

we abhor terrorism -- unless we're the ones doing the terrorizing.

we paid and trained and armed a group of terrorists in nicaragua in the
1980s who killed over 30,000 civilians. that was our work. you and me.
thirty thousand murdered civilians and who the hell even remembers!

we fund a lot of oppressive regimes that have killed a lot of innocent
people, and we never let the human suffering that causes to interrupt our
day one single bit.

we have orphaned so many children, tens of thousands around the world, with
our taxpayer-funded terrorism (in chile, in vietnam, in gaza, in salvador)
that i suppose we shouldn't be too surprised when those orphans grow up and
are a little whacked in the head from the horror we have helped cause.

yet, our recent domestic terrorism bombings have not been conducted by a
guy from the desert but rather by our own citizens: a couple of ex-military
guys who hated the federal government.

from the first minutes of today's events, i never heard that possibility
suggested. why is that?

maybe it's because the a-rabs are much better foils. a key ingredient in
getting americans whipped into a frenzy against a new enemy is the
all-important race card. it's much easier to get us to hate when the object
of our hatred doesn't look like us.

congressmen and senators spent the day calling for more money for the
military; one senator on cnn even said he didn't want to hear any more talk
about more money for education or health care -- we should have only one
priority: our self-defense.

will we ever get to the point that we realize we will be more secure when
the rest of the world isn't living in poverty so we can have nice running
shoes?

in just 8 months, bush gets the whole world back to hating us again. he
withdraws from the kyoto agreement, walks us out of the durban conference
on racism, insists on restarting the arms race -- you name it, and baby
bush has blown it all.

the senators and congressmen tonight broke out in a spontaneous version of
'god bless america.' they're not a bad group of singers!

yes, god, please do bless us.

many families have been devastated tonight. this just is not right. they
did not deserve to die. if someone did this to get back at bush, then they
did so by killing thousands of people who did not vote for him! boston, new
york, dc, and the planes' destination of california -- these were places
that voted against bush!

why kill them? why kill anyone? such insanity?

let's mourn, let's grieve, and when it's appropriate let's examine our
contribution to the unsafe world we live in.

it doesn't have to be like this?

yours,

michael moore
mmflint@aol.com

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=========================================================================
date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 10:56:36 edt
reply-to:     btfenton@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         btfenton@aol.com
subject:      blessed
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i am a member of a very lucky family (we are from boston). one of my cousins works at the wtc and his sister works at the pentagon.  they were both at work yesterday morning and miraculously both are ok.  we were lucky that we gto the info quickly -   by 11am yesterday. however a friend's aunt is missing and we are praying for her safe return as well as the return of many, many unknown others.  don't be alone, go to vigils and services and allow yourself to grieve and pray.
return-path: <>
date:       sun, 23 sep 2001 11:06:20 -0400
from:       "l-soft list server at lists.netspace.org (1.8d)"
      <listserv@lists.netspace.org>
subject:      file: "indigo-girls log0109b"
to:       carolyn spidle <underdog@earthlink.net>


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date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 12:02:06 -0400
reply-to:     lyndsay agans <eccemus@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         lyndsay agans <eccemus@hotmail.com>
subject:      re: is everyone ok?
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content-type: text/html

<html><div style='background-color:'><div>
<p>these are the days that heroes and villains are made...</p>
<p>i live in md. my father was in dc yesterday and two of my cousins live in manhattan and work in the financial district. many friends work at the pentagon and other key installations in dc. thankfully all of my family and loved ones are well. we were fortunate. and now many close to me are called up to active duty in the wake of this tragedy.</p>
<p>i understand the fear, i understand the anger, but i'd like to share this with you:</p>
<p>may we learn from this act of hatred that there can be no "equivalent response." that the pain may be overcome only by greater understanding and greater peace and that would be our paramount victory. let us not pray for vengeance, but hope for justice. let us pray for the victims of these crimes, for the brave souls who risk themselves to help them and for all those we love. this is indeed a time to be strong, a time to protect, and a time to unite. </p>
<p>god bless each of us as we go through this, </p>
<p>lyndsay</p>
<p>"the purpose of terrorism is to create chaos.  the idea that this is war is wrong.  we are fighting criminals. it is important for the united states to determine who has done this, why and how to cope."  <br>dr. nitza nachmias<br></p></div></div><br clear=all><hr>get your free download of msn explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_itl_en.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></html>

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date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 12:20:57 edt
reply-to:     poohbea487@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         laura whitlock <poohbea487@aol.com>
subject:      lance and laura ok in manhattan
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i'm usually just a lurker here, but there are several people who know me, so i thought i'd check in. my boyfriend, lance, used to post on the list very frequently as lance or l'sly and is ok as well.

laura

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date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 12:30:03 -0400
reply-to:     darius wei <dcw2428@osfmail.isc.rit.edu>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         darius wei <dcw2428@osfmail.isc.rit.edu>
subject:      re: another perspective from michael moore
x-cc:         mmflint@aol.com
in-reply-to:  <oe30yfkuutsgcorblsa00008858@hotmail.com>
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> someone on welfare is flying my plane? is this for real? yes, it is.

   i'm disgusted by moore's constant desire to twist facts to serve a
purpose that could stand on it's own admirably.  instead, it makes the
author sound like an opportunistic rat.
   as a private pilot who once considered making it, the commuter flights
are used for training, since they're less difficult to handle.  it's
something like grad school for pilots...when you make it to the big
birds, you make some serious change, far more than a living wage.

> four teams of 3-5 people were all able to penetrate airport security on the
> same morning at 3 different airports and pull off this heinous act? my only
> response is -- that's all?

   why wasn't moore, with his *obvious* experience, having seen terrorism
firsthand, up in arms about this before?  oh right, there wasn't an
ambulance to chase.

> am i being asked to believe that this guy who sleeps in a tent in a desert
> has been training pilots to fly our most modern, sophisticated jumbo jets
> with such pinpoint accuracy that they are able to hit these three targets
> without anyone wondering why these planes were so far off path?

   yes.  you are.  all you really need to know is back means up, forward
means down.  and you push that little yellow-knobbed thingy marked
throttle forward and that makes you go faster.  if that horribly
unsophisticated feller who sleeps in a tent at night couldn't teach that
to his students, we wouldn't be having this problem.

> what i do know is that all day long i have heard everything about this bin
> laden guy except this one fact -- we created the monster known as osama bin
> laden!

   which has made it painfully obvious to the people in power that doing
this behind-the-scenes covert manipulation won't work.  have we tried
since the kurds in iraq?  no...and we probably won't for a very long time.
   we've created a monster, and now it's our turn to bite him back.  the
time has come to destroy those responsible for yesterday.  not out of
vengefullness or spite, but for our safety.  the plo always kept its
violence limited -- it wanted to make a political point to serve its ends,
and overreaching those boudaries would cause negative repercussions.
   but the person behind yesterday wanted as much chaos and destruction as
possible.  and they will do it again.  a rhetorical question: if you have
the ability to defend yourself against an enemy which has made its
presence known, will you?

> >from the first minutes of today's events, i never heard that possibility
> suggested. why is that?

   because a hick with a uhaul can toast a small office building.  a hick
with a uhaul can't bring down the two world trade centers at the same time
as dropping a jet into the pentagon.

> maybe it's because the a-rabs are much better foils.

   or maybe it's because they did it.  funny how the facts point to that.

   i'm disgusted with my officemates, for their racist comments while i
pleaded with them to understand that most muslims were like most
christians, they believe many of the same things, and like us, were
horrified.  but how could they not react, to pictures of palestinian
children dancing in the streets?

> a key ingredient in getting americans whipped into a frenzy against a
> new enemy is the all-important race card. it's much easier to get us to
> hate when the object of our hatred doesn't look like us.

   which is why colin powell, a black man, was sitting there repeating
"moderate arab states" during his press conference.  and tom brokaw was
latching onto that and qualifying everything he said with that
phrase.  yes, it's a government conspiracy, mike.  in fact, president bush
is secretly hoping for a war so he can justify taking his tax cut away and
spending it on another few b2s.  stop watching the x-files and turn on
npr.  you disgrace the memory of people who died with this tripe.

> congressmen and senators spent the day calling for more money for the
> military; one senator on cnn even said he didn't want to hear any more talk
> about more money for education or health care -- we should have only one
> priority: our self-defense.

   trite comment deserves trite response: dead citizens don't care too
much about education or health care.  if we can't protect our own,
nourishing them is out of the question.

> will we ever get to the point that we realize we will be more secure when
> the rest of the world isn't living in poverty so we can have nice running
> shoes?

   right.  because that's relevant.  i'm for the anti-sweatshop cause, but
you dishonor the casualties of this horrible affair by trying to bring
your pet peeve into this mess.

> in just 8 months, bush gets the whole world back to hating us again.

   you sure like bringing stuff into this whole mess which is not
pertinent to what's going on.  so it's my turn: we can thank a few
thousand nader supporters in florida for the whole mess.

> it doesn't have to be like this?

   it doesn't.  for once, stop harping on your pet causes and use your
writing talents to serve -- yes, to criticize the system that allowed this
to happen, but also to show support against those who would commite crimes
against humanity, and stand with those who pledge never to let this happen
again.
   none of us can feel completely safe again, but don't go into the realm
of the paranoid.  we can work to improve many many things, but now is the
time to work on our national security.  hi-tech bombers and missle defense
shields probably seem as silly to their architects now as they did to us
years ago.
   but remember that these politicians and military folks, they're people
too.  and although they're dreaming up some of this stuff at the behest of
special interest groups and the like...there are good intentions
involved.  yesterday was an emotionally wracking day, where even somebody
like rudy guliani couldn't keep dry eyes...let's cut everybody some
slack.  (...although paging through previous paragraphs, i'm guilty of
not practicing, but some things needed to be said...)
   mike, your hindsight is very clear.  as is all of ours right now.

   darius

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date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 12:38:40 -0400
reply-to:     havanamoon <havana_moon@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         havanamoon <havana_moon@hotmail.com>
subject:      re: another perspective from michael moore
x-to:         darius wei <dcw2428@osfmail.isc.rit.edu>
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darius,

excellent rebuttal...

just trying to make sense of a senseless situation by examining all the
angles....

tim

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date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 10:34:13 -0700
reply-to:     "riney, loralei" <loralei.riney@bannerhealth.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "riney, loralei" <loralei.riney@bannerhealth.com>
subject:      a 7 yr olds view and turn to ig song to feel safe...
mime-version: 1.0
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i just wanted to say something. my daughter wrote down what has happened
today(tuesday), she did this at 7 am this morning. she then took the sheet
of paper, placed it on the floor in front of the altar in the sanctuary room
.she then went and got her sword(actually a wooden replica of my great sword
( which is real and will work well ) ( 4 foot in length) and placed it
across the paper....very emotional for me and my partner....this from a 7
year old... i asked her why, she was a bit hesitant but looked up to me and
said...so that it stops...just stops.

she then asked if i would play  the loquat tree.... and i did.

sparkie...very proud of her daughter mariah.

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date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 13:59:13 us/eastern
reply-to:     armydilo@tampabay.rr.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         armydilo@tampabay.rr.com
subject:      re: is everyone ok?

i am awating word, still, on 6 family members that may have been in the
buildings at the time.  one of my co-workers father worked on the 46th floor of
the south tower.  he hasn't heard from him yet.  i ask all of you, if you can,
please donate blood. if you will, please pray in what ever way you do.  right
now it is the least i can do.  my sympathies go out to all those who lost
friends and loved ones.

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date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 10:37:15 -0700
reply-to:     christina mumby <cmumby@san.rr.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         christina mumby <cmumby@san.rr.com>
subject:      re: a 7 yr olds view and turn to ig song to feel safe...
x-to:         "riney, loralei" <loralei.riney@bannerhealth.com>
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sparkie,

you and your partner have every right to feel proud.
thank you so much for sharing.

chris :)

>> i just wanted to say something. my daughter wrote down what has happened
today(tuesday), she did this at 7 am this morning. she then took the sheet
of paper, placed it on the floor in front of the altar in the sanctuary room
.she then went and got her sword(actually a wooden replica of my great sword
( which is real and will work well ) ( 4 foot in length) and placed it
across the paper....very emotional for me and my partner....this from a 7
year old... i asked her why, she was a bit hesitant but looked up to me and
said...so that it stops...just stops.
> she then asked if i would play  the loquat tree.... and i did.

> sparkie...very proud of her daughter mariah.

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date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 18:11:06 +0000
reply-to:     robbin love <robbin_150@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         robbin love <robbin_150@hotmail.com>
subject:      re: a 7 yr olds view and turn to ig song to feel safe...
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; format=flowed

sparkie,

that is so cool. sounds like your daughter really knows how to make some
magick. amazing how children can really tap into intuition and the sacred.

i think i will listen to wild, wild party at the loquat tree when i get
home. it's the perfect song.

~robbin

========
"our father's house is a house of regret, with rooms i can't sleep in and
jokes i don't get." --amy ray


_________________________________________________________________
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date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 14:48:07 -0400
reply-to:     catherine spinale <cspinale@pmn.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         catherine spinale <cspinale@pmn.com>
subject:      semi ok in boston
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hi everyone:

just want to let you know, i'm doing the best i can as far as morale and i
am safe.
however, earlier today there was a bomb threat at the westin hotel at copley
place.  the area has been evacuated and three suspects have been arrested.
it just
said on the radio that these people are alleged to have been involved with
yesterday's
hijacks.  they were tracked down by the hotel through credit card purchases
- each of
them had purchased tickets for one of the flights.

i am not near the copley area.  i am in the financial district which is
fully loaded with
security at the entrances of most of the buildings.

i am so saddened by this terrrible crisis and although i know it was all
very real, i'm
still in a daze - just numb from it all.  my prayers to all of you who have
friends and
loved ones in those areas which were affected.

it just really scares me that 2 of those planes left from the airport only 5
miles away
from my town (winthrop) and, as most of you know, i'm planning to fly out to
atlanta
next month for the ballet.  i'm petrified, but as my mother always says,
"you can't live
your life in fear, you need to move on".  i know it will be a long time
before any of us
will be able to move past this, but i believe one day we all will - we just
need to stick
together.  it's so nice to read everyone "checking in" and letting eachother
know we're
safe.  take care.

c

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date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 15:48:27 edt
reply-to:     subcityii@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         subcityii@aol.com
subject:      stunned
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the first word that describes how i feel about
the bombings is stunned. i just can't get over
how audacious it was take over 4 commerical
airplanes and crash them one after another
like that.

after i get over that feeling, the next feeling
i had was for the innocent victims in all of
this. the ones just trying to live their lives
and who probably could not care less about the
politics of the planners of this attack or any
attack. i saw two photos today taken just before
the wtc buildings collapsed yesterday that put
this into perspective for me. they were photos
of people falling to their deaths.

i have one brother that lives just outside d.c.
in maryland and another brother that lives and
works in new york city. it was through email,
not through phone communications, that i was
able to learn they were both fine. it is amazing
to me how these little modern items we take for
granted can literally be lifelines!

i live in the los angeles area. many on this
board have dealt with me because i send videotape
copies or magazines or other indigo girls material.
i just got a message that a special screening of
short films i was going to attend tonight was
cancelled. i have not los angeles shut down like
this since the riots of '92. i just finished
making a video copy for someone in new jersey.
i mailed the video monday night, but now, i have
no idea when that video will be put onto
a plane so that it can be delivered. that scares
me a little. just like i was a little scared back
in '92.

i just hope everone affected by this recovers
quickly. i hope whoever did this is captured
and punished. finally, i have to quote emily,

"one day the war will stop
and we'll grow a peaceful crop"
-from the song, trouble

-scott

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=========================================================================
date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 18:28:16 -0400
reply-to:     lyndsay agans <eccemus@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         lyndsay agans <eccemus@hotmail.com>
subject:      fwd: september 13 at 10:30 est
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/html

<html><div style='background-color:'><div>
<p><br>light a candle on september 13th and go outside your home at 10:30 to show your support.please forward to as many people as possible!</p>
<div></div>subject: fw: september 13 at 10:30 est </div>
<div></div>date: wed, 12 sep 2001 17:02:29 -0400
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>please - take a moment to go outside your home with a lit candle - what a powerful sight that will be if we reach across the country. sorry for
<div></div>the mass message but please forward as possible. hope you and those you
<div></div>
<p>love are safe and well. thanks</p>
<p>subj: nationwide candlelight ceremony thursday: september 13 10:30est </p>
<div></div>date: 9/12/01 2:24:37 pm eastern daylight time
<div></div>from: dawnjayy (philadelphia, pa)
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>dear fellow colleagues:
<div></div>please use any connections you have via radio, television,
<div></div>community, church, business, etc., to pass this message along.
<div></div>
<div></div>as a daughter of an american war veteran, i have grown up with an
<div></div>uncompromising appreciation for freedom and those who have fought for
<div></div>it. the song lyrics "i am proud to be an american where at least i
<div></div>know i'm free and i won't forget the men who died and gave that right to
<div></div>me and i proudly stand up and defend her all the way. there ain't no
<div></div>doubt i love this place. god bless the usa," by lee greenwood always
<div></div>bring a tear to my eye. undoubtedly, like me, your very core of safety
<div></div>and security were shaken right along with the structures when the
<div></div>buildings at the trade center in new york and the pentagon were hit with
<div></div>malicious intention. this was followed by the terrible realization that
<div></div>an unthinkable travesty has taken place that will deeply and profoundly
<div></div>touch all of our lives forever. despite all this devastation, there
<div></div>still remains hope. hope for the victims still holding onto life beneath
<div></div>the rubble, for the families searching for their loved ones, for the
<div></div>countless selfless individuals (heroes) providing their services working
<div></div>tireless through the day and night to save our friends, colleagues,
<div></div>neighbors and loved ones.
<div></div>sitting helpless watching in shock and horror thinking "what can i do to
<div></div>help?" a simple thought turned into an incredible vision. as i stood
<div></div>staring at the candle i had lit as a personal mixed medley of hope,
<div></div>encouragement, prayer, grief, mourning and monument, the answer came to
<div></div>me: the power of one!
<div></div>
<div></div>it took the power of one to destroy so much that we held sacred. it was
<div></div>one hour that transcended us from the untouchable to the tainted. it
<div></div>was one minute that took down the symbols of financial power and
<div></div>military strength. one series of seconds impact that took the lives of
<div></div>thousands. one can change so much.
<div></div>
<div></div>so join us as someone, one community, one state and one nation on
<div></div>thursday, september 13 at 10:30 est to show that one nation under god is
<div></div>indivisible in a nationwide candlelight ceremony. send a strong
<div></div>reverberating message of incredible perseverance and resilience of
<div></div>american spirit by banding together in grief and support.
<div></div>
<div></div>these horrific cowards may have performed inscrutable acts that chipped
<div></div>away at our symbols of freedom and democracy but "we the people" like
<div></div>our flag are still here...shining bright in unity.
<div></div>
<div></div>
<p>god bless and see you there! </p>
<p> </p>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>an organ donor saved my life; share your life, share your decision
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div></div></div><br clear=all><hr>get your free download of msn explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_itl_en.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></html>

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date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 19:03:29 edt
reply-to:     melijoy@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         melijoy@aol.com
subject:      re: another perspective from michael moore
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="part1_8.19e5c1e6.28d143c1_boundary"

--part1_8.19e5c1e6.28d143c1_boundary
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

> in just 8 months, bush gets the whole world back to hating us again.

   you sure like bringing stuff into this whole mess which is not
pertinent to what's going on.  so it's my turn: we can thank a few
thousand nader supporters in florida for the whole mess.

darius,
do you really think this was an appropriate response at this time?
sounds like you have a favorite pet peeve, too.

my thoughts are with everyone out there on this list tonight, in spirit.

-mel

--part1_8.19e5c1e6.28d143c1_boundary
content-type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

<html><font face=arial,helvetica><font  size=2>
<br>
<br>> in just 8 months, bush gets the whole world back to hating us again.
<br>
<br>   you sure like bringing stuff into this whole mess which is not
<br>pertinent to what's going on.  so it's my turn: we can thank a few
<br>thousand nader supporters in florida for the whole mess.</xmp></blockquote>
<br>
<br>darius,
<br>do you really think this was an appropriate response at this time?
<br>sounds like you have a favorite pet peeve, too.
<br>
<br>my thoughts are with everyone out there on this list tonight, in spirit.
<br>
<br>-mel</font></html>

--part1_8.19e5c1e6.28d143c1_boundary--

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date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 16:11:39 -0700
reply-to:     "riney, loralei" <loralei.riney@bannerhealth.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "riney, loralei" <loralei.riney@bannerhealth.com>
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ya know, we could all, if we really wanted to...find some one or some thing
to blame this on....but i ask...what fricken good would it do?
it has happened. we as a collective have to get past the fear, the anger and
the stunned feelings and move toward putting things back to "normal" if we
know what that is. finding another scape goat will do no good but give  you
as an individual some thing ( one ) toward which you can direct your anger,
hate and feelings of loss.....it will also have adverse affects on your
health , your personal interactions with other, friends and family.....is it
worth it>...to internalize this is to allow those &^*&^* to enter into your
home, your work...your head and heart. yes, they are in the thoughts..but
there is no reason to further add to the toll that has already been dropped
on the american people...yourself.

i for one, plan on reading to my kid, making love to my partner and thanking
g-ddess and g-d that we are safe tonight.
sparkie

-----original message-----
from: melijoy@aol.com [mailto:melijoy@aol.com]
sent: wednesday, september 12, 2001 4:03 pm
to: indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org
subject: re: another perspective from michael moore

> in just 8 months, bush gets the whole world back to hating us again.

  you sure like bringing stuff into this whole mess which is not
pertinent to what's going on.  so it's my turn: we can thank a few
thousand nader supporters in florida for the whole mess.


darius,
do you really think this was an appropriate response at this time?
sounds like you have a favorite pet peeve, too.

my thoughts are with everyone out there on this list tonight, in spirit.

-mel

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=========================================================================
date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 20:08:40 -0400
reply-to:     jen lucero <jlucero@mail.monmouth.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jen lucero <jlucero@mail.monmouth.com>
subject:      admin note: not the place or time - m. moore
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

folks,

before anyone else decides to add to the moore thread or anything
similar...please don't.

there are plenty of other places to listen to, read, or talk about the who,
what, and where to place blame or to repeat social commentaries.

in honor of the lives lost and the valiant ongoing efforts of all the rescue
volunteers and professionals, please keep postings to the list more
respectful in nature.

thank you.

jen lucero
ig list owner
(nj resident - 25 miles away from nyc as the crow flies)

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date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 22:36:03 edt
reply-to:     woodelldc@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         woodelldc@aol.com
subject:      life in my hands
x-to:         nields-nook@listbox.com, fear@things.org, dads-yard@smoe.org,
              ferrick@smoe.org
x-cc:         dcwoodell@yahoo.com
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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hey, folks, on most of my lists,
  i had to get outside today and get away from all the news for a while , and do something life-affirming.
  i planted a peace garden, with white mums and my buddha statue. it's a place where i can reflect on all the tragedy and sadness, but ultimately will bring life back into my spirit.
  while out in the yard, i found a praying mantis and, together, we, well, you know....
take care all,
deb

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date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 22:39:47 -0400
reply-to:     mur dog <murdog2@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         mur dog <murdog2@hotmail.com>
subject:      insane events and comments
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god help those who did this.

tim, thanks for cross posting something that shouldn't have been done at
this time.

mel, i'm glad that you think that i, by voting for bush, drove those planes
into the wtc. we all needed that observation too.

you both should be ashamed. why the hell does everything have to have a
political spin on it?

i'll sum up mike moore's theory in one sentence. "bush got elected, thus,
the radical "arabs" finally have a reason to attack us". if this wasn't so
dreadful a tragedy it would be laughable. its despicable that someone,
anyone, would be partisan at a time like this.

my prayers are with the dead and grieving families.

dave.

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date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 19:39:07 -0600
reply-to:     melissa genevieve young <mely@cc.usu.edu>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         melissa genevieve young <mely@cc.usu.edu>
subject:      re: another perspective from michael moore
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> in just 8 months, bush gets the whole world back to hating us again.

after speaking to friends in different parts of the world and reviewing
their news sources, i can testify that this is definitely not the case.  in
fact, the "whole world" is rallying around us, with very few exceptions.
even fidel castro has expressed his sympathies.

besides, this attack has very little to do with bush.  it's been in the
works for a hell of a lot longer than he's been president.

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date:         thu, 13 sep 2001 00:17:39 edt
reply-to:     vickistein@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "digest <vicki stein>" <vickistein@aol.com>
subject:      god bless america
mime-version: 1.0
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i didn't vote for shrub, detest him (don't flame me ~  it's a values issue
and i do not believe he has earned the position he usurped
[www.gorewonflorida.com].  we're facing real tragedies, and i don't believe
in the tumbleweed's policies. (i volunteered for gore and am still mourning
the loss of the stolen election, his leadership, and his class and
intelligent presence.) but left wing and right wing philosophies don't come
into play when our country has been attacked.  hit maslow's hierarchy, and we
are so fortunate to have had our souls either born or transplanted to this
wonderful country, the united states of america.  right now, the issues do
not revolve around partisanship ~ they revolve around our freedom.

however, we must continue to plan to make sure that civil rights for every
american are validated.  too bad that has to fall on the heels of our freedom.

pray for peace in the middle east.  pray for peace in the u.s.

certainly, the dawn of a new era provides emily and amy with lots of new
material.  we all have to process the severity of this event.  i pray that we
will learn something from this experience...maybe become better people, as a
nation.  maybe challenge ourselves to grow spiritually.

god bless america.


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<html><font face=arial,helvetica><font  size=2>
<br>i didn't vote for shrub, detest him (don't flame me ~  it's a values issue
<br>and i do not believe he has earned the position he usurped
<br>[www.gorewonflorida.com].  we're facing real tragedies, and i don't believe
<br>in the tumbleweed's policies. (i volunteered for gore and am still mourning
<br>the loss of the stolen election, his leadership, and his class and
<br>intelligent presence.) but left wing and right wing philosophies don't come
<br>into play when our country has been attacked.  hit maslow's hierarchy, and we
<br>are so fortunate to have had our souls either born or transplanted to this
<br>wonderful country, the united states of america.  right now, the issues do
<br>not revolve around partisanship ~ they revolve around our freedom.
<br>
<br>however, we must continue to plan to make sure that civil rights for every
<br>american are validated.  too bad that has to fall on the heels of our freedom.
<br>
<br>pray for peace in the middle east.  pray for peace in the u.s.  
<br>
<br>certainly, the dawn of a new era provides emily and amy with lots of new
<br>material.  we all have to process the severity of this event.  i pray that we
<br>will learn something from this experience...maybe become better people, as a
<br>nation.  maybe challenge ourselves to grow spiritually.
<br>
<br>god bless america.
<br></font></html>

--part1_171.cc9890.28d18d63_boundary--

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=========================================================================
date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 21:25:45 -0700
reply-to:     mandy <sister_fortunate_one@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         mandy <sister_fortunate_one@yahoo.com>
subject:      fwd: peace
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hey y'all -

it's not that i think the tragedies we've just witnessed don't merit
discussion, or that i'm trying to redirect the conversational current
in line with my own sympathies, but please, everybody, stop fighting.
we don't really know each other well enough for this to be a useful
ground for confrontation, because we're simply not ready to listen to
dissenting opinions from near-strangers when our own passions are so
high. moreover, i think it would be a waste for this list, potentially
a source of information and mutual comfort, to unsettle us all further
when we're already so deeply shaken.

anyway. this forward here is hardly an answer, but it's something. and
i think it's at least a good reminder that all of us essentially do
want peace, however we may believe it may be achieved. and please,
folks, let's keep it peaceful here.

thanks.

mandy


--- nff <nancyff@mindspring.com> wrote
> from my friend, the writer, cassie premo steele:
>
> i have an idea.  why don't we start a program called windows on
> peace.  ask everyone you know to put white pieces of paper with the
> word peace on it on their car, home, and office windows-- facing
> out.  kids could draw pictures of peace.  that way, all across
> america, we are reminded that all of us want peace in the aftermath
> of this violence.
>
> feel free to pass this along via email and ask others to do so, too.
>
>
> ---


__________________________________________________
terrorist attacks on u.s. - how can you help?
donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/us/emergency_information/

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=========================================================================
date:         thu, 13 sep 2001 00:41:05 edt
reply-to:     indigokat@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         heidi smith <indigokat@aol.com>
subject:      gay passenger may have foiled hijackers
x-to:         lorraine.gray@pseg.com, mblonergan@dca.state.nj.us,
              trisha.smith@bms.com, teirney@aol.com,
              kathryn_l_preston@aoncons.com, dollheart@aol.com,
              sburk@geckotech.com, jewellarts@aol.com
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="part1_a4.1992e57e.28d192e1_boundary"

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gay passenger may have foiled hijackers
tom musbach, gay.com / planetout.com network
wednesday, september 12, 2001 / 04:00 pmtoday's headlines


gay passenger may have foiled hijackers
<a href="http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?2001/09/12/2">gay muslims condemn u.s. attacks</a>
<a href="http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?2001/09/12/3">cheryl jacques loses bid for u.s. congress</a>
<a href="http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?2001/09/12/4">tempe mayor defeats recall challenge</a>

promotion


amid sketchy reports about the crash of united airlines flight 93 in
pennsylvania on tuesday, friends and relatives of a gay passenger on the
flight believe he may have tried to thwart the plane's hijackers. before the
crash, thomas burnett, of san ramon, calif., phoned his wife and said that he
and two other passengers were prepared to take action against the men who had
taken control of the plane, which was en route to san francisco from newark,
n.j. "i know we're all going to die - there's three of us who are going to do
something about it," he told his wife, according to the san francisco
chronicle. mark bingham, 31, a public relations executive, also made a call
from the plane. he told his mother, alice hoglan, about three men who claimed
to have a bomb before the phone connection failed. what happened between
those phone calls and the plane's nose-dive into a wooded field near
pittsburgh is still a matter of speculation. there were no survivors of the
crash. counterintelligence experts speculated that the plane was headed
toward a washington landmark before it crashed. moments before the tragedy,
three other hijacked planes, also traveling from the east coast to
california, <a href="http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?2001/09/11/1">destroyed the world trade center</a> in new york and a portion of the
pentagon in washington, d.c. "this was the only flight of the four that did
not reach its target, which they believed to be camp david, and that gives us
reason to believe that perhaps mark was able to help save the lives of people
on the ground," hoglan, a united airlines flight attendant, told nbc's
"today" show. a senior u.s. intelligence official told msnbc.com that mobile
phone communications from flight 93 suggest that three passengers overpowered
the hijackers but were unable to maintain control of the plane. friends of
mark bingham, a former division 1 rugby player who also played in san
francisco's gay rugby and basketball leagues, believe he may have been one of
the three passengers who confronted the hijackers, but they acknowledge they
may never be able to prove it. lloyd kinoshita, who played pick-up basketball
games with bingham, said, "i have no doubt that if there was an opportunity
to save lives that mark would have initiated action. he was a competitor and
leader, but even more so, he was a caring individual." on the flight, bingham
was seated in the first-class cabin. gay.com/planetout.com network has not
yet confirmed that burnett, 38, the former chief operating officer for
thoratec corp., was also in first class. friends said bingham was a large,
athletic man who was once gored in the leg while running with the bulls in
pamplona, spain. he was the type of person, they said, who wouldn't be afraid
to take on the hijackers. "today, in the face of this great tragedy, i am
taking a small amount of comfort in the growing body of evidence indicating
that mark was a hero," said bryce eberhart, a planetout partners employee who
played rugby with bingham.

--part1_a4.1992e57e.28d192e1_boundary
content-type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
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<html><font face=arial,helvetica><font  size=3>gay passenger may have foiled hijackers
<br>tom musbach, gay.com / planetout.com network
<br>wednesday, september 12, 2001 / 04:00 pmtoday's headlines
<br>
<br></font><font  color="#000000" size=2 family="sansserif" face="arial" lang="0">
<br>gay passenger may have foiled hijackers
<br><a href="http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?2001/09/12/2">gay muslims condemn u.s. attacks</a>
<br><a href="http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?2001/09/12/3">cheryl jacques loses bid for u.s. congress</a>
<br><a href="http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?2001/09/12/4">tempe mayor defeats recall challenge</a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><p align=center></font><font  color="#999999" size=2 family="sansserif" face="arial" lang="0">promotion</font><font  color="#000000" size=2 family="sansserif" face="arial" lang="0">
<br><p align=left>
<br>
<br>amid sketchy reports about the crash of united airlines flight 93 in pennsylvania on tuesday, friends and relatives of a gay passenger on the flight believe he may have tried to thwart the plane's hijackers. before the crash, thomas burnett, of san ramon, calif., phoned his wife and said that he and two other passengers were prepared to take action against the men who had taken control of the plane, which was en route to san francisco from newark, n.j. "i know we're all going to die - there's three of us who are going to do something about it," he told his wife, according to the san francisco chronicle. mark bingham, 31, a public relations executive, also made a call from the plane. he told his mother, alice hoglan, about three men who claimed to have a bomb before the phone connection failed. what happened between those phone calls and the plane's nose-dive into a wooded field near pittsburgh is still a matter of speculation. there were no survivors of the crash. counterintelligence experts speculated that the plane was headed toward a washington landmark before it crashed. moments before the tragedy, three other hijacked planes, also traveling from the east coast to california, <a href="http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?2001/09/11/1">destroyed the world trade center</a> in new york and a portion of the pentagon in washington, d.c. "this was the only flight of the four that did not reach its target, which they believed to be camp david, and that gives us reason to believe that perhaps mark was able to help save the lives of people on the ground," hoglan, a united airlines flight attendant, told nbc's "today" show. a senior u.s. intelligence official told msnbc.com that mobile phone communications from flight 93 suggest that three passengers overpowered the hijackers but were unable to maintain control of the plane. friends of mark bingham, a former division 1 rugby player who also played in san francisco's gay rugby and basketball leagues, believe he may have been one of the three passengers who <br>
<br></p></p></font></html>

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=========================================================================
date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 23:00:05 -0700
reply-to:     ryan blackhawke <ryan@hawke2.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         ryan blackhawke <ryan@hawke2.com>
subject:      nigc: ignore this
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this is a test. for some reason, i cannot access any mail in my indigo girls
folder because outlook keeps crashing, it appears, on the message title gay
passenger....

so i'm hoping by putting something else in this folder, i can access teh
folder. we'll see. otherwise, i may cry for not being able to read the last
15 or so messages.

ryan

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=========================================================================
date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 23:03:44 -0700
reply-to:     ryan blackhawke <ryan@hawke2.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         ryan blackhawke <ryan@hawke2.com>
subject:      nigc: can someone send me heidi smith's message....
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about the gay passenger? of course, my outlook keeps crashing whenever i try
to access that particular message, the one i really want to read (not that i
don't want to read the rest of you). my test worked and i was able to access
my ig folder by sending that test message.

ryan

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date:         thu, 13 sep 2001 02:13:33 -0400
reply-to:     havanamoon <havana_moon@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         havanamoon <havana_moon@hotmail.com>
subject:      re: insane events and comments
x-to:         mur dog <murdog2@hotmail.com>
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to the list re: michael moore

my apologies - i do fear the consequences if we engage the arab world in an
eye for an eye - no one grieves more for the victims than i....
return-path: <>
date:       sun, 23 sep 2001 11:06:20 -0400
from:       "l-soft list server at lists.netspace.org (1.8d)"
      <listserv@lists.netspace.org>
subject:      file: "indigo-girls log0109b"
to:       carolyn spidle <underdog@earthlink.net>


i don't claim to have any answers....

i hope that those who do will make the correct decisions for the sake of all
humanity....

tim

----- original message -----
from: mur dog <murdog2@hotmail.com>
to: <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
sent: wednesday, september 12, 2001 10:39 pm
subject: insane events and comments


> god help those who did this.
>
> tim, thanks for cross posting something that shouldn't have been done at
> this time.
>
> you both should be ashamed. why the hell does everything have to have a
> political spin on it?

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=========================================================================
date:         wed, 12 sep 2001 23:34:52 -0700
reply-to:     ryan@hawke2.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         ryan blackhawke <ryan@hawke2.com>
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you know,
i cant stand bush. i didn't vote for him and swore i'd never use the word
"president" in the same sentence as his name.

however, you are right. we as a nation need to stand together and put all
the partisan bickering aside. the bickering is exactly what the terrorists
were counting on. let's take a lesson from the actions of our politicians
who have managed to put all the rancor aside and stand with a united front.

let's keep showing the world our spirit is stronger than the cowards who
perpetrated this act of hatred and continue to give of our time, money,
prayers, and energy.

here is what's happening in my little corner of the world. i went to get a
chai at my favorite little latte stand near my house. all the barristas at
all 4 locations decided to take all the tips they got today and donate it to
the families of the victims of yesterday's attack. the owner agreed to match
whatever they collected. by 3pm, that was over $800 with another $800 coming
from the owner.

what i am very concerned about right now are the attacks on muslims going
on. people, almost all muslims abhor the violence perpetrated upon our
country yesterday. indeed, many muslim nations stand ready to help us. these
people are not the enemy. we should not fall to racism and stereotyping.
yes, i was angry last night to the point of wanting immediate retribution.
but we need to realize that our fellow citizens and guests are not the
enemy. keep the anger where it belongs.

ryan

> -----original message-----
> from: indigo girls mailing list
> [mailto:indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org]on behalf of mur dog

its despicable that someone, anyone, would be partisan at a time like this.

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date:         thu, 13 sep 2001 10:17:51 -0400
reply-to:     mur dog <murdog2@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         mur dog <murdog2@hotmail.com>
subject:      re: insane events and comments
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barb-

><<mel, i'm glad that you think that i,by voitng for bush sent those
>planes into the wtc>>
>
>where did you get that  assumption? i've been reading the posts and i
>didn't see anything about bush voters...i saw michael moore's
>statements that " bush has the whole world hating us." is that what
>you're referring to?

yes and no, specifically, my reference was to mel's comment that "a few
nader voters in florida caused this whole mess". in the context of speaking
about the attack and in light of what mike moore said something to the
effect that "why attack nyc when they voted for gore". that is despicable.
can't you see what he's implying? i'm not sure what mel implied but in that
context, it sickens me.

again, why does he need to be partisan at a time like this? blindness is
bliss i guess and business as usual.

that is hypocritical. i didn't cross post anything and its convenient to end
the discussion before the other side can retort.

dave.

_________________________________________________________________
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date:         thu, 13 sep 2001 10:04:56 -0700
reply-to:     "riney, loralei" <loralei.riney@bannerhealth.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "riney, loralei" <loralei.riney@bannerhealth.com>
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we'll go forward from this moment
it's my job to have something to say.
they pay me to provide words that help make sense of that which troubles the
american soul. but in this moment of airless shock when hot tears sting
disbelieving eyes, the only thing i can find to say, the only words that
seem to fit, must be addressed to the unknown author of this suffering.
you monster. you beast. you unspeakable bastard.
what lesson did you hope to teach us by your coward's attack on our world
trade center, our pentagon, us? what was it you hoped we would learn?
whatever it was, please know that you failed.
did you want us to respect your cause? you just damned your cause.
did you want to make us fear? you just steeled our resolve.
did you want to tear us apart? you just brought us together.
let me tell you about my people. we are a vast and quarrelsome family, a
family rent by racial, social, political and class division, but a family
nonetheless. we're frivolous, yes, capable of expending tremendous emotional
energy on pop cultural minutiae -- a singer's revealing dress, a ball team's
misfortune, a cartoon mouse. we're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready
availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of that, we
walk through life with a certain sense of blithe entitlement. we are
fundamentally decent, though -- peace-loving and compassionate. we struggle
to know the right thing and to do it. and we are, the overwhelming majority
of us, people of faith, believers in a just and loving god.
some people -- you, perhaps -- think that any or all of this makes us weak.
you're mistaken. we are not weak. indeed, we are strong in ways that cannot
be measured by arsenals.
in pain
yes, we're in pain now. we are in mourning and we are in shock. we're still
grappling with the unreality of the awful thing you did, still working to
make ourselves understand that this isn't a special effect from some
hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot development from a tom clancy novel.
both in terms of the awful scope of their ambition and the probable final
death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts of
terrorism in the history of the united states and, probably, the history of
the world. you've bloodied us as we have never been bloodied before.
but there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody and making us
fall. this is the lesson japan was taught to its bitter sorrow the last time
anyone hit us this hard, the last time anyone brought us such abrupt and
monumental pain. when roused, we are righteous in our outrage, terrible in
our force. when provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear any
suffering, pay any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit of justice.
i tell you this without fear of contradiction. i know my people, as you, i
think, do not. what i know reassures me. it also causes me to tremble with
dread of the future.
in the days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation, fingers
pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen and what can be
done to prevent it from happening again. there will be heightened security,
misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. we'll go forward from this moment
sobered, chastened, sad. but determined, too. unimaginably determined.
the steel in us
you see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. that aspect of our
character is seldom understood by people who don't know us well. on this
day, the family's bickering is put on hold.
as americans we will weep, as americans we will mourn, and as americans, we
will rise in defense of all that we cherish.
so i ask again: what was it you hoped to teach us? it occurs to me that
maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred. if that's the
case, consider the message received. and take this message in exchange: you
don't know my people. you don't know what we're capable of. you don't know
what you just started.
but you're about to learn.

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=========================================================================
date:         thu, 13 sep 2001 16:44:16 -0700
reply-to:     helen chandler <heleninsf@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         helen chandler <heleninsf@hotmail.com>
subject:      nigc - editorial on canada
mime-version: 1.0
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<html><div style='background-color:'><div></div></div><br clear=all><hr>get your free download of msn explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_itl_en.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></html>

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date:         thu, 13 sep 2001 21:06:49 -0400
reply-to:     diane gagnon <dispdmg@fastdial.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         diane gagnon <dispdmg@fastdial.net>
subject:      nigc: blatherings of jerry faldwell et all
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http://www.washblade.com/

falwell blames gays, liberal groups for terrorist attacks
anti-gay advocate makes remarks on '700 club' broadcast; robertson nods
approval
by lou chibbaro jr.
washington blade
2001, window media llc

washington, thursday, sept. 13 - the rev. jerry falwell said gays,
feminists, "pagans," and a host of liberal advocacy groups have made "god
mad" and must share the blame for the terrorist attacks this week that took
the lives of thousands of americans at the world trade center in new york
and at the pentagon outside washington.

falwell made his remarks thursday, sept. 13, while appearing on the
religious television program the 700 club, hosted by the rev. pat robertson.
falwell and robertson are among the nation's strongest opponents of gay
civil rights.

"i really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists,
and the gays and lesbians who are actively trying to make that an
alternative lifestyle, the aclu, people for the american way - all of them
who have tried to secularize america - i point the finger in their face and
say, 'you helped this happen,'" falwell said on the program, which was
broadcast nationally.

"well, i totally concur," robertson told falwell, "and the problem is we
have adopted their agenda at the highest levels of our government."

the comments by falwell and robertson came at a time when gay activists have
joined leading republicans and democrats in calling for national unity and
full, bipartisan support for president bush's planned response to the
terrorist attacks.

"the terrible tragedy that has befallen our nation, and indeed the entire
global community, is the sad byproduct of fanaticism," said lorri l. jean,
executive director of the national gay and lesbian task force.

"it has its roots in the same fanaticism that enables people like jerry
falwell to preach hate against those who do not think, live, or love in the
exact same way he does," jean said.

"the tragedies that have occurred this week did not occur because someone
made god mad, as mr. falwell asserts," jean continued, in a statement
released sept. 13. "they occurred because of hate, pure and simple."

in separate statements released this week, the national gay groups log cabin
republicans and national stonewall democrats condemned the terrorist attacks
and declared their support for president bush's efforts to respond to the
incidents.

"gay and lesbian americans across the nation are united today," said log
cabin executive director rich tafel. "in the face of defending our nation
together, all differences fall away, and all other issues pale in
comparison."

"this week's tragedy truly asks all of us to come together as a people to
bury our dead, to comfort and heal all families and to rebuild this strong
nation," the national stonewall democrats said in a statement. "stonewall
democrats join in solidarity with all americans in placing our loyal support
behind our national government and our president."

the group added, "gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered americans also
have paid with their lives and their honor, and we join in saluting their
sacrifices and those of every american who suffered these terrible,
senseless events."

"now is the time to join together behind our president and our government in
defense of our nation," said tafel of the log cabin group.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
diane gagnon
im'er: dispdmg

remember that you have a soul just as you have a body
and a social self. do not starve it.

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=========================================================================
date:         thu, 13 sep 2001 20:17:41 -0500
reply-to:     barbara bordner <ritesofpassage9@webtv.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         barbara bordner <ritesofpassage9@webtv.net>
subject:      re: fwd: peace
x-to:         mandy <sister_fortunate_one@yahoo.com>
in-reply-to:  mandy <sister_fortunate_one@yahoo.com>'s message of wed, 12 sep
              2001 21:25:45 -0700
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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i second the motion.

peace
barb

sister_fortunate__one@yahoo.com writes:

<<it's not that i think the tragedies we've just witnessed don't merit
discussion, or that i'm
trying to redirect the conversational current in line with my own
sympathies, but please, everybody, stop fighting. we don't really know
each other well enough for this to be a useful ground for confrontation,
because we're simply not ready to listen to dissenting opinions from
near-strangers when our own passions are so high. moreover, i think it
would be a waste for this list, potentially a source of information and
mutual comfort, to unsettle us all further when we're already so deeply
shaken.
anyway. this forward here is hardly an answer, but it's something. and i
think it's at least a good reminder that all of us essentially do want
peace, however we may believe it may be achieved. and please, folks,
let's keep it peaceful here.
thanks.
mandy >>
---

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date:         thu, 13 sep 2001 23:37:37 -0500
reply-to:     i love the indigo girls <igfan19@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         i love the indigo girls <igfan19@hotmail.com>
subject:      let freedom ring
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loralei,
thank you so much for your moving words in your message to this monster, =
this beast with no face or name that tried but failed to ultimately =
destroy the spirit of america. so many things have moved me to tears. =
and your words did as well. as a american, i long for peace, but i pray =
for justice. i want my freedom back, but i know that we will have to =
fight for that freedom in some form or fashion. we can no longer pretend =
or deny, it couldn't happen to us.=20
i rarely post to this list. but i felt compelled to add my voice to this =
discussion.=20
you know, what i love most about america is our right, our right, to =
voice whatever opinion we might have and not live in fear that our words =
will have us arrested or shot. we have heard  and read many different =
angles on this tragedy. and posted many different opinions.  i even got =
mad at some of the things we have posted. but we can still think for =
ourselves, we can still feel. those people that have been literally =
vaporized by planes turned into bombs can't think or feel anymore. we =
must as never before come together as a nation. i went to wal-mart today =
to buy an american flag. i hate to admit i didn't even own one. and they =
were all sold out. i absolutely hate myself for that. i absolutely hate =
the fact i have been so friggin complacent for not being more involved =
in my country and in my world. i hate the fact it took something like =
this to wake me up to how precious, precious, our freedom is. how many =
innocent people have died for our beliefs and our principles? too many =
to count.  and i can't help but feel condemnation for the monsters who =
did this. to those of you waiting news of loved ones, my prayers to you =
all. like emily and amy, i wish for *peace to night*. but if that peace =
means fighting evil by using any means necessary, i am preparing myself =
to accept that, whatever it may be. some of you may feel differently. =
and i totally respect your opinion and your beliefs. because that my =
friends is what makes us american.
god bless america, god bless the world.


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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html><head>
<meta http-equiv=3dcontent-type content=3d"text/html; =
charset=3diso-8859-1">
<meta content=3d"mshtml 6.00.2600.0" name=3dgenerator>
<style></style>
</head>
<body bgcolor=3d#ffffff>
<div><font face=3d"comic sans ms" color=3d#800080 =
size=3d4>loralei,</font></div>
<div><font face=3d"comic sans ms" color=3d#800080 size=3d4>thank you so =
much for your=20
moving words in your message to this monster, this beast with no face or =
name=20
that tried but <strong>failed</strong> to ultimately destroy the spirit =
of=20
america. so many things have moved me to tears. and your words did as =
well. as a=20
american, i long for peace, but i pray for justice. i want my freedom =
back, but=20
i know that we will have to fight for that freedom in some form or =
fashion. we=20
can no longer pretend or deny, it couldn't happen to us. </font></div>
<div><font face=3d"comic sans ms" color=3d#800080 size=3d4>i rarely post =
to this list.=20
but i felt compelled to add my voice to this discussion. </font></div>
<div><font face=3d"comic sans ms" color=3d#800080 size=3d4>you know, =
what i love most=20
about america is our right, our right, to voice whatever opinion we =
might have=20
and not live in fear that our words will have us arrested or shot. we =
have=20
heard  and read many different angles on this tragedy. and posted =
many=20
different opinions.  i even got mad at some of the things we have =
posted.=20
but we can still think for ourselves, we can still feel. those people =
that have=20
been literally <strong>vaporized by planes turned into =
bombs </strong>can't=20
think or feel anymore. we must as never before come together as a =
nation. i went=20
to wal-mart today to buy an american flag. i hate to admit i didn't even =
own=20
one. and they were all sold out. i absolutely hate myself for that. i =
absolutely=20
hate the fact i have been so friggin complacent for not being more =
involved in=20
my country and in my world. i hate the fact it took something like this =
to wake=20
me up to how precious, precious, our freedom is. how many innocent =
people have=20
died for our beliefs and our principles? too many to count.  and i =
can't=20
help but feel condemnation for the monsters who did this. to those of =
you=20
waiting news of loved ones, my prayers to you all. like emily and amy, i =
wish=20
for *peace to night*. but if that peace means fighting evil by using any =
means=20
necessary, i am preparing myself to accept that, whatever it may be. =
some of you=20
may feel differently. and i totally respect your opinion and your =
beliefs.=20
because that my friends is what makes us american.</font></div>
<div><font face=3d"comic sans ms" color=3d#800080 size=3d4>god bless =
america, god=20
bless the world.</font></div>
<blockquote=20
style=3d"padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; =
border-left: #800080 2px solid; margin-right: 0px"><font=20
  face=3d"comic sans ms" color=3d#800080=20
size=3d4></font> </blockquote></body></html>

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 00:46:07 edt
reply-to:     sofreakncool@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "april c. koonce" <sofreakncool@aol.com>
subject:      re: let freedom ring
mime-version: 1.0
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the article that loralei posted was written by b. leonard pitts of the miami
herald.  thank you loralei for posting it to the group.  it is so very
beautiful and eloquently written.

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<html><font face=arial,helvetica><font  color="#004080" size=2><b>the article that loralei posted was written by b. leonard pitts of the miami herald.  thank you loralei for posting it to the group.  it is so very beautiful and eloquently written.  </b></font></html>

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 03:03:24 -0400
reply-to:     havanamoon <havana_moon@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         havanamoon <havana_moon@hotmail.com>
subject:      re: nigc: blatherings of jerry faldwell et all
x-to:         diane gagnon <dispdmg@fastdial.net>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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if anything could make these times even more dangerous, these creeps will
succeed....

make no mistake - these are dangerous men....

tim

----- original message -----
from: diane gagnon <dispdmg@fastdial.net>
to: <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
sent: thursday, september 13, 2001 9:06 pm
subject: nigc: blatherings of jerry faldwell et all


http://www.washblade.com/

falwell blames gays, liberal groups for terrorist attacks
anti-gay advocate makes remarks on '700 club' broadcast; robertson nods
approval
by lou chibbaro jr.
washington blade
2001, window media llc

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 13:40:22 +0200
reply-to:     kathrin_siegmund@gmx.de
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         kathrin siegmund <kathrin_siegmund@gmx.de>
subject:      mp3: american tune...

<color><param>0100,0100,0100</param>hi everyone!


i wasn't sure whether it's appropriate to be continuing the mp3 offer
of the week right now...

but i turn to music when i want to make sense of things and i thought
maybe a lot of people here feel the same way.


there's no song that would "fit" the current situation, of course but
i felt american tune might be a good choice.


as always, anybody who would like to get the mp3 can simply drop me a
line and i'll send it to you (it's close to 4 mb again, please check
whether your mailbox can hold that much, if it can't we can meet on
aim or icq and i'll send it to you there).


be well,

kathrin


<flushboth>american tune

manys a time i've been mistaken
and many times confused
yes and i've often felt forsaken
and certainly misused
oh but i'm all right
i'm all right
i'm just weary to my bones
still you don't expect to be bright and bon vivant
so far away from home
so far away from home

i don't know a soul who's not been battered
i don't have a friend feels who at ease
i don't know a dream that's not been shattered
or driven to it's knees
oh but it's all right
it's all right
we've lived so well so long
still when i think of the road we're traveling on
i wonder what's gone wrong
i can't help it i wonder
what's gone wrong

and i dreamed i was dying
i dreamed that my soul
rose unexpectedly
and looking back down at me
smiled reassuringly
and i dreamed i was flying
high up above
my eyes could clearly see
the statue of liberty
sailing away to sea
and i dreamed i was dying

oh we come on a ship they call the mayflower
we come on a ship that sailed the moon
we come in the ages most uncertain hour
and sing an american tune
oh but it's all right
it's all right
you can't be forever blessed
still tomorrow's going to be another working day
and i'm trying to get some rest
that's all i'm trying
to get some rest</flushboth>

<flushboth>___________________________________</flushboth>

<nofill>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the opposite of love is indifference
the opposite of life is not death
it's indifference
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.geocities.com/kathrin_ig

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 10:05:42 -0400
reply-to:     catherine spinale <cspinale@pmn.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         catherine spinale <cspinale@pmn.com>
subject:      nigc: blatherings of jerry faldwell et all
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

words cannot describe how much this man upsets me, as
if we're not upset enough already.  we are in the middle of
this horrible tragedy and this man is pointing the finger at
gays, lesbians and liberal groups?  (was i reading that
correctly???).  this is a reverend, a man of god???, a man
people look up to for guidance???.  how disgusting!

this is a man who is full of hate and i am just sickened by
the utter mention of his name and hope i don't have to hear
it for a while.  this is certainly not the time for blame.

i have no more energy to comment any further - i'm still
numb from it all.

take care
c

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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 09:18:19 -0500
reply-to:     amanda <media@mightymedia.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         amanda <media@mightymedia.com>
subject:      re: let freedom ring
in-reply-to:  <oe23gausvxonvzyjxar00007309@hotmail.com>
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can we please, please stop talking about this on this list?  again, as
someone else said, we dont know each other well enough to get into
constructive arguements about the opinions being posted here.  so i would
really rather we just dont discuss it.

thanks,
amanda


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<html><head>
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http-equiv=3dcontent-type>
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<style></style>
</head>
<body bgcolor=3d#ffffff>
<div><font color=3d#0000ff face=3darial size=3d2><span =
class=3d453081614-14092001>can we=20
please, please stop talking about this on this list?  again, as =
someone=20
else said, we dont know each other well enough to get into constructive=20
arguements about the opinions being posted here.  so i would really =
rather=20
we just dont discuss it.</span></font></div>
<div><font color=3d#0000ff face=3darial size=3d2><span=20
class=3d453081614-14092001></span></font> </div>
<div><font color=3d#0000ff face=3darial size=3d2><span=20
class=3d453081614-14092001>thanks,</span></font></div>
<div><font color=3d#0000ff face=3darial size=3d2><span=20
class=3d453081614-14092001>amanda</span></font></div>
<div> </div></body></html>

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 09:27:38 -0500
reply-to:     nora landon <bruise@lucien.blight.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         nora landon <bruise@lucien.blight.com>
subject:      re: let freedom ring
x-to:         amanda <media@mightymedia.com>
in-reply-to:  <kaehiieokindokclhakgoeoickaa.media@mightymedia.com>
mime-version: 1.0
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i agree with amanda.  while it may seem wrong to talk about things other
than what's going on in our nation, silence is better than discord.

peace,

nora


on fri, 14 sep 2001, amanda wrote:

> can we please, please stop talking about this on this list?  again, as
> someone else said, we dont know each other well enough to get into
> constructive arguements about the opinions being posted here.  so i would
> really rather we just dont discuss it.
>
> thanks,
> amanda
>
>

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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 10:33:01 -0400
reply-to:     leslie fleischman <etipat@rcn.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         leslie fleischman <etipat@rcn.com>
subject:      nicg re: let freedom ring
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i do not ususally post but i for one was quite moved by the article that =
loralei posted. i don't think it contains arguable notions or opinions =
that anyone could dispute.=20

i don't think we can talk or think about anything else these days.

i respect the nature of this list and all of the opinions expressed on =
it whether i agree with them or not. i am sorry for the nicg of this =
post.

les

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<body bgcolor=3d#ffffff>
<div><font face=3darial size=3d2>i do not ususally post but i for one =
was quite=20
moved by the article that loralei posted. i don't think it contains =
arguable=20
notions or opinions that anyone could dispute. </font></div>
<div><font face=3darial size=3d2></font> </div>
<div><font face=3darial size=3d2>i don't think we can talk or think =
about anything=20
else these days.</font></div>
<div><font face=3darial size=3d2></font> </div>
<div><font face=3darial size=3d2>i respect the nature of this list and =
all of the=20
opinions expressed on it whether i agree with them or not. i am sorry =
for the=20
nicg of this post.</font></div>
<div><font face=3darial size=3d2></font> </div>
<div><font face=3darial size=3d2>les</font></div></body></html>

------=_nextpart_000_0099_01c13d08.a12e8de0--

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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 10:45:50 edt
reply-to:     subcityii@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         subcityii@aol.com
subject:      outside of the usa
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i'd be curious to hear what you listees
outside of the usa think of what is
going on.

what is your take on all of this bombing?

-scott

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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 14:53:07 +0000
reply-to:     robbin love <robbin_150@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         robbin love <robbin_150@hotmail.com>
subject:      here we go....
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i was just informed by a friend that the two "arabs" taken into custody in
portsmouth, va were tidewater community college students from morocco.

let the xenophobic racism begin.....


~robbin

========
"our father's house is a house of regret, with rooms i can't sleep in and
jokes i don't get." --amy ray


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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 10:53:26 -0400
reply-to:     jill certo <jillyc@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jill certo <jillyc@hotmail.com>
subject:      how to help
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i want to start some kind of donation drive to send things to new york.
does anyone want to help with this or know how to do it?

please forward the following list of needed supplies to others-- i found it
at abcnews.com, so it is accurate and legit.

--------------------------------------
the following items are in short supply:
aspirin/tylenol
dust masks/surgical masks
respirator masks
ace bandages
saline solution
medical tape
gauze pads
alcohol swabs
antibiotic cream
foot powder
non-drowsy allergy medicine

specialized medical equipment:
23 gauge needles
21 gauge needles
d5w iv bags
saline bags
infusion sets
butterfly
iocc syringe
silvadine

canine supplies:
dog boots
dog food
can openers

basic non-medical supplies:
high-quality respirator masks
can openers
waterproof tubs/coolers
multi-channel 2-way radios
bottled water
long-sleeved shirts
t-shirts
steel-toed boots
work gloves
sanitary napkins
flap shovels
crowbars
pick-axes
tents
handi-wipes
sunscreen
hard hats
toiletries
blankets
towels
high-quality safety goggles
plastic tarps
cotton and wool socks
packaged ice
rope
undergarments for men and women

in new york city, the designated drop-off sites are:
jacob k. javitz center, 11th avenue at 35th street on the west side of
manhattan
chelsea piers, 23rd street at the hudson river on the west side of
manhattan, or
at a staging area in union square.
--------------------------------------------------
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/dailynews/wtc_howtohelp.html has many
links to where and how you can donate blood and money.

since i don't live anywhere near new york, i'm wondering if any of you out
there do-- maybe i can collect stuff here and send them to you for dropoff?
or is there a much easier way to get this done that i don't know about?

thanks
jill

ain't nothing gonna break my stride
nobody gonna slow me down
oh no, i've got to keep on moving

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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 10:55:32 -0400
reply-to:     darius wei <dcw2428@osfmail.isc.rit.edu>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         darius wei <dcw2428@osfmail.isc.rit.edu>
subject:      re: nigc: blatherings of jerry faldwell et all
in-reply-to:  <217d123bb1cddc42987032cb4085c1620652f0@bostonexch01.pmn.com>
mime-version: 1.0
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on fri, 14 sep 2001, catherine spinale wrote:

> this is a reverend, a man of god???, a man
> people look up to for guidance???.  how disgusting!

   i can just imagine the "rev" fred phelps right now.
   "quick, kids, register the web address www.allahhatesfags.com!"

   laugh at these fools, for to take them for anything but the clowns they
are lends gravity to what they say, as absurd as it is.

   darius

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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 11:03:11 -0400
reply-to:     chris becker <becker@dean.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         chris becker <becker@dean.com>
subject:      re: how to help
in-reply-to:  <f1131wkm27xm9zoxxyh00014500@hotmail.com>
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as well, if you have the means, there are a number of organizations
and relief funds that could use a forwarded tax refund check....

-- chris

jill wrote:
>i want to start some kind of donation drive to send things to new york.
>does anyone want to help with this or know how to do it?
>
>please forward the following list of needed supplies to others-- i found it
>at abcnews.com, so it is accurate and legit.
>

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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 11:05:52 edt
reply-to:     hskrfn68@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         ehren mitzlaff <hskrfn68@aol.com>
subject:      re: how to help
x-to:         jillyc@hotmail.com
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="part1_13e.16b21db.28d376d0_boundary"

--part1_13e.16b21db.28d376d0_boundary
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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unless you live in nyc or the surrounding area, i wouldnt suggest trying to
send anything but money.    the american red cross has a fund set up for this
disaster and will gladly take a check from you and the money will be used to
directly fund the replenishing of the supplies they need.

--part1_13e.16b21db.28d376d0_boundary
content-type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
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<html><font face=arial,helvetica><font  size=2 family="script" face="comic sans ms" lang="0"><b>unless you live in nyc or the surrounding area, i wouldnt suggest trying to send anything but money.    the american red cross has a fund set up for this disaster and will gladly take a check from you and the money will be used to directly fund the replenishing of the supplies they need. </b></font></html>

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 11:07:30 -0400
reply-to:     catherine spinale <cspinale@pmn.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         catherine spinale <cspinale@pmn.com>
subject:      an american tune
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that's a perfect song to offer at this time.  wednesday
morning when i came into work, my radio station was asking
for any special requests for songs that might make us feel
a little better, if only for a moment, and i immediately thought
of american tune, so i called my station and offered my suggestion.
she played it and i cried, but i felt a little better.

i also went home and listened to "loquat tree" 3 times.  you know, it's
impossible to cry when you listen to that song.  i found it very helpful,
because
i also turn to music when i'm upset (another good suggestion is enya -
anything
by her).

c

ps:  loralei, thank you for that article.  we needed that.

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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 11:18:56 -0400
reply-to:     chris becker <becker@dean.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         chris becker <becker@dean.com>
subject:      nigc: washington dc area volunteers wanted
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thought people might want to know.

getting a hammer and a nail,

chris

>
>
>volunteers are needed throughout the weekend to help
>with the crisis at the pentagon.
>phone number to set up volunteer time is
>(703) 486-1111
>x2729 or x2732
>
>the shifts are split up as follows:
>8a - 4p
>4p - 12a
>12a - 8a
>
>
>karen v. van der riet
>vanderriet@dean.com
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>dean & company strategy consultants, inc.
>8065 leesburg pike, suite 500
>vienna, va 22182-2733
>ph: 703-760-4402
>fx: 703-506-3905
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 09:29:45 -0600
reply-to:     melissa genevieve young <mely@cc.usu.edu>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         melissa genevieve young <mely@cc.usu.edu>
subject:      re: outside of the usa
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here's an email i received from a friend in london on wednesday:


coverage here has been complete with most stations replacing some if not all
of their regular programs since it happened, the feeling in the nation is
one of complete shock and disgust. also not just our political leaders but
everyone feels incredibly supportive of the us, the us is our greatest
friend no matter how we take the mick, laugh or moan about them and now our
friend is wounded we must surround that friend with support no matter what
the cost to our own nation. the "safe" option for our nation would have been
just to condem the attack but instead our leaders have offered unqualified
support militarily and morally.

the city of london ground to a halt, the stock exchange was evacuated as was
canary wharf tower. the nation came to a standstill and today there is a
feeling of lingering disbelief but also one of outrage and blind fury
direced against not just those responsible for this act but any and all that
support any form of terrorism accross the world.

also no-one here considers this an attack just on the usa but rather an
attack on the entire free world and expects it to be met as such. political
pundits are saying that this is the end of isolationism in america and that
now bush will be much more present on the world stage as the leader of the
free world as all nations turn to face this threat to democracy by religious
fundamentalism.

all of our thoughts are with our friends in the states, i fear for so may of
the camp children who have parents that work in the financial sector in
manhatten.

none of us know what to say and basically the whole country is shellshocked,
we all say the right things, "it is awfull isn't it", "sickening" but really
we have no idea what has happened because there is nothing in our lives that
we can compare it to, no yardstick with which to scale it and deep down we
all know that and realise that it is completely outwith our comprehension
and that in itself is terrifying.

take care and do your part as america must now knuckle down and harden its
resolve to come out of this strong and proud.

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return-path: <>
date:       sun, 23 sep 2001 11:06:20 -0400
from:       "l-soft list server at lists.netspace.org (1.8d)"
      <listserv@lists.netspace.org>
subject:      file: "indigo-girls log0109b"
to:       carolyn spidle <underdog@earthlink.net>

date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 18:09:42 +0200
reply-to:     kathrin_siegmund@gmx.de
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         kathrin siegmund <kathrin_siegmund@gmx.de>
subject:      re: outside of the usa
in-reply-to:  <11f.464e373.28d3721e@aol.com>

> i'd be curious to hear what you listees
> outside of the usa think of what is
> going on.
i think there basically are no words...
everyone i talked to about this tells me the same. that they just
couldn't believe what they were seeing on tv. people thought it was a
movie... maybe a pretty sick publicitiy stunt for a new action or sci-
fi movie la indepence day or whatever. and nobody simply can
conceive how anyone can bear to live with having done something like
this. if it was done in the name of religious beliefs (i hesitate
taking the current reports on who might be behind this as the truth
because they're not proven yet and being a german, i am afraid of
these reports evoking racist thoughts in people's minds) it must seem
to everybody like the biggest contradiction there could ever be... at
least to me it does. i'm not very religious myself but i do think
that it's important to be there for one another and offer your help
when you can to people who need it and simply act friendly and caring
towards each other. and these things are at the heart of every
religion, too, i should think.
these past few days i've been feeling like i did back when the gulf
war was going on ... it felt like the world was at the verge of a big
catastrophe and it feels the same way now. i certainly understand
that there needs to be military action on the part of the us as a
response to what happened and also to prevent it from happening
again, maybe somewhere else in the world.
but i think it is very very important how these military actions will
be handled. there needs to be definite proof for who did it and any
action that will be taken needs to be planned very very carefully, so
that any further escalation of this can be prevented...

i think this whole situation might bring the different countries a
lot closer together and that is actually a good thing coming out of
this, although it's sad that something like this has to happen before
politicians start actually working together for the benefit of
mankind instead of just digging up dirt about each other and trying
to win the next election.

i hope that this feeling of support between the different nations and
countries and their people will not be something that's temporary but
that it will change how we interact with each other in the future and
hopefully it will help prevent any kind of wars, too.

kathrin

________________
indian commandments:
- treat the earth and all that dwell thereon with respect
- show great respect for your fellow beings
- work together for the benefit of mankind
- give assistance and kindness wherever needed
- do what you know to be right
- dedicate a share of your efforts to the greater good
- be truthfull and honest at all times
- take full responsibility for your actions

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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 09:25:30 -0700
reply-to:     gram@asu.edu
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         gram@asu.edu
subject:      re: let freedom ring
in-reply-to:  <pine.lnx.4.33.0109140927020.9619-100000@lucien.blight.com>
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quoting amanda <media@mightymedia.com>:

> can we please, please stop talking about this on this list?  again, as
> someone else said, we dont know each other well enough to get into
> constructive arguements about the opinions being posted here.  so i
> would really rather we just dont discuss it.

quoting nora landon <bruise@lucien.blight.com>:

> i agree with amanda.  while it may seem wrong to talk about things
> other than what's going on in our nation, silence is better than discord.

what you consider to be silence, i consider to be apathy.  heaven forbid, there
should be an intellectual discussion on this list.  just because you do not
agree with something that is posted on the list does not mean everyone else
feels the same way.  it is called freedom of speech.  allowing one to voice
their feelings, opinions, etc.

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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 16:43:12 +0000
reply-to:     tom xxxxx <getula@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tom xxxxx <getula@hotmail.com>
subject:      re: nigc: blatherings of jerry faldwell et all
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; format=flowed

>words cannot describe how much this man upsets me, as
>if we're not upset enough already.  we are in the middle of
>this horrible tragedy and this man is pointing the finger at
>gays, lesbians and liberal groups?  (was i reading that
>correctly???).  this is a reverend, a man of god???, a man
>people look up to for guidance???.  how disgusting!

i'm particularly incensed that he targets the "pagans," too. yeah, because
my "harm none" philosphy and celebrating nature really pisses god off. if
that is true, than his god is a sick tyrant. amazing how easily some
people's love of god turns to hatred for others.

a true man of god at this time would be bringing people together not trying
to deepen the divisions.

tom

"all the carnage of my journeys
makes it harder to be livin'
he said, 'it's a long road to be forgiven."
amy ray, "chickenman"


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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 17:54:43 +0100
reply-to:     john bond <john.bond@lineone.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         john bond <john.bond@lineone.net>
subject:      re: outside of the usa
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the day after the attack, it was weird to wake up and realise that the world
trade center wasn't there anymore. that all those people had died in an
instant. when they had the 3 minute silence all over europe today, i just
kept thinking of all the people who had died, all of their individual faces.

while i feel peace is important above all things, i hope the people who are
responsible meet justice, and i know that this will have to be done by
violent means....

john.

----- original message -----
from: <subcityii@aol.com>
to: <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
sent: friday, september 14, 2001 3:45 pm
subject: outside of the usa


> i'd be curious to hear what you listees
> outside of the usa think of what is
> going on.
>
> what is your take on all of this bombing?
>
> -scott
>
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>
>

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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 14:25:09 -0500
reply-to:     barbara bordner <ritesofpassage9@webtv.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         barbara bordner <ritesofpassage9@webtv.net>
subject:      ig on wtc/dc?
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
mime-version: 1.0 (webtv)

being this is an ig list, i wonder if anyone has heard anything about
amy and emily's take on this whole thing? i hope all their loved ones
and friends are alright. anyone?

peace
barb


"from the embattled studios of wbai studios of the banned and fired,
studios of our listeners" amy goodman,now broadcasting democracy now! in
exile and suspended sans pay, for relocating dn! due to unsafe working
conditions. email uleid@excite.net tell her the harassment at her
station has got to go.

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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 15:27:12 -0400
reply-to:     jen lucero <jlucero@mail.monmouth.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jen lucero <jlucero@mail.monmouth.com>
subject:      admin note:  freedom of speech et al
mime-version: 1.0
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hi folks,

while many of us are experiencing extreme emotions at this time, please
remember that this list is not a political forum.

freedom of speech is truly a wonderful gift...but it also carries with it
responsibility for what is said.

requests have been made, both on the list and to me privately, that we make
efforts to keep inflammatory posts off the list.

please keep this in mind.

thank you.

jen lucero
ig list owner

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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 13:03:09 -0700
reply-to:     ryan@hawke2.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         ryan blackhawke <ryan@hawke2.com>
subject:      re: ig on wtc/dc?
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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i am in a conversation right now with a woman named carla who seems to work
for daemon records. she has a column on the website. her take is we
shouldn't be surprised this happened. i interpret her column as saying we
deserved this. or at the very least that those who died at the pentagon did.
my brother could have been at the pentagon that day and i very much resent
her attitude. i certainly hope amy does not share this view.

ryan (who would serve in the navy again to protect the right of carla to
denounce my country)

> -----original message-----
> from: indigo girls mailing list
> [mailto:indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org]on behalf of barbara bordner

> being this is an ig list, i wonder if anyone has heard anything about
> amy and emily's take on this whole thing? i hope all their loved ones
> and friends are alright. anyone?

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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 16:12:44 -0400
reply-to:     mbeene@wesleyancollege.edu
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         mbeene@wesleyancollege.edu
subject:      re: ig on wtc/dc?
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i think at this point emotions are running very high, and it is really easy
for all of us to say things that are not exactly what we mean. i doubt there
are many americans who would say that the people harmed in this attack
deserved to die. however, i do believe there are a lot of people who are
trying to understand what the reason might be for such an attack, and the
reason they are seeing is related to america's action (or lack thereof) in
dealing with human rights in other countries (among other things, which i do
not have enough knowledge to speak on well).
please, can we just stop being so incredibly defensive right now in dealing
with one another? it is really making life a lot worse...having to deal not
only with the world's problems, but also with somewhat petty bickering at
the personal level.

thanks,
megan

-----original message-----
from: ryan blackhawke [mailto:ryan@hawke2.com]
sent: friday, september 14, 2001 4:03 pm
to: indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org
subject: re: ig on wtc/dc?


i am in a conversation right now with a woman named carla who seems to work
for daemon records. she has a column on the website. her take is we
shouldn't be surprised this happened. i interpret her column as saying we
deserved this. or at the very least that those who died at the pentagon did.
my brother could have been at the pentagon that day and i very much resent
her attitude. i certainly hope amy does not share this view.

ryan (who would serve in the navy again to protect the right of carla to
denounce my country)

> -----original message-----
> from: indigo girls mailing list
> [mailto:indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org]on behalf of barbara bordner

> being this is an ig list, i wonder if anyone has heard anything about
> amy and emily's take on this whole thing? i hope all their loved ones
> and friends are alright. anyone?

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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 13:22:33 -0700
reply-to:     "bruno, marie" <mbruno@cslanet.calstatela.edu>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "bruno, marie" <mbruno@cslanet.calstatela.edu>
subject:      nigc: what carla from daemon said.
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

from cahla's talking. lets stop taking things out of context. enough said.
okay, so i just watched tv for 13 hours in a row. and i still can't even
fathom exactly what went on in my country today. i heard the news (today, oh
boy) via radio, on the howard stern show, of all things. the utter disbelief
and fear culminating into a hysterical outburst of crying as i tried to
maneuver through the streets of my town, back to my house.

i watched all the people talk. the terrorists experts. the security experts.
my initial reaction was that of anger and frustration at my capitalist pig
gov't, for surely, this attack cannot be truly unprovoked. what about the
clandestine u.s. policy that so many innocent people paid for today with
their lives? just like the innocents who die at the hands of our bombs and
economic sanctions. in the name of "justice" and "freedom". freedom, i heard
that word a lot today. uttered by people like madeline albright. isn't she
the one who called the deaths of children in iraq "necessary casualties"? or
diane feinstein, who called for action against countries that harbor,
finance and train terrorists. isn't that what we do at the school of the
americas? yeah, yeah, they changed the name. trying to throw us off the
trail? *justice*freedom*conflict*contradiction*

these are outbursts, of course, of my suspicions of american foreign policy.
even so, i can't help but feel that now is the time to unite. my heart aches
for the victims and their families. my heart aches that the world has come
to this. my mind is twisted with utter disbelief that someone would have the
balls to pull this off on american soil. and maybe that's the problem.
lulled into complacency. now i am absolutely shocked into submission. and i
am personally offended that these insane madmen were able to pull some of
this off from my home city of boston. i live 25 minutes from the airport.
have i ever passed these people on the street?

i have all kinds of conflicting emotions that are hard to deal with. my knee
jerk reaction is to hunt these fuckers down and kill them. don't bring them
back here and burn my tax dollars to try them, then imprison them. for god's
sake, fighting violence with violence. what am i thinking??

i don't know what i'm thinking. i know i saw members of congress sing "god
bless america" in unison. and it moved me. i know i feel like the u.s. gov't
has blood on their hands as much as these terrorists. i know i can't believe
they took out the world fucking trade center. a faceless, seemingly nameless
enemy successfully penetrated our national security in the most devastating
of ways. i have that image burned into my brain, of that plane ripping
through that building. of those people, literally running for their lives as
those buildings came down.

i'm trying to rally. i really am. tomorrow i'm going down to give blood. i'm
trying to put aside my contempt i have for my gov't. i'm trying to only
think of the human equation. i am rallying in the human spirit because
that's what really matters.

i send up a prayer for all the people worldwide who have lost their lives in
similar actions. whether at the hands of our gov't, or someone else, all
innocent victims.
the price paid for a world out of hand

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 16:25:16 -0400
reply-to:     nancy golumbia <nancyg2@sas.upenn.edu>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         nancy golumbia <nancyg2@sas.upenn.edu>
subject:      re: ig on wtc/dc?
x-to:         ryan@hawke2.com
in-reply-to:  <bpeilenbfchbichfdmidmehecgaa.ryan@hawke2.com> from "ryan
              blackhawke" at sep 14, 2001 01:03:09 pm
mime-version: 1.0
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i have so much to say about what's happened, but i'll try to be concise.
i have not read carla's article, but as a queer-vegan-pro-choice-animal
right's activist, i have to say that i do not feel protected in this
country, on any day, ever, and maybe this is what she's referring to.
this country, this government, would love for me to crawl back inside the
hole i grew up in, to be silent, to not try to fight for my rights.  if
you disagree with me about this, please come with me the next
time i go to a protest.  the anger is pallitable, as i stand on a
sidewalk holding a protest sign.  i guess what i'm trying to say is that,
while bush speaks of freedoms, i am not free here.  i may be "more free"
here than in some other countries, but i am also "less free" here than i
would be in others.  for the president to stand up and announce to the
world that he is defending "our" freedoms, i know he is not speaking of
me or my freedoms, and his arrogance and defense of rich white people and
corporations is offensive.

of course, the death and the suffering are awful and upsetting and
impossible to put into words.  death and suffering are always upsetting.
the death and suffering of arabs will also be upsetting to me.

ryan blackhawke wrote:
>
> i am in a conversation right now with a woman named carla who seems to work
> for daemon records. she has a column on the website. her take is we
> shouldn't be surprised this happened. i interpret her column as saying we
> deserved this. or at the very least that those who died at the pentagon did.
> my brother could have been at the pentagon that day and i very much resent
> her attitude. i certainly hope amy does not share this view.
>
> ryan (who would serve in the navy again to protect the right of carla to
> denounce my country)
>
> > -----original message-----
> > from: indigo girls mailing list
> > [mailto:indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org]on behalf of barbara bordner
>
> > being this is an ig list, i wonder if anyone has heard anything about
> > amy and emily's take on this whole thing? i hope all their loved ones
> > and friends are alright. anyone?
>
> --
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>       http://www.fl.net.au/~sherlyn/ig
>

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 15:25:41 -0500
reply-to:     "christopher j. carroll" <cjcarroll1@earthlink.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "christopher j. carroll" <cjcarroll1@earthlink.net>
subject:      re: ig on wtc/dc?
x-to:         ryan@hawke2.com
in-reply-to:  <bpeilenbfchbichfdmidmehecgaa.ryan@hawke2.com>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

at 1:03 pm -0700 9/14/01, ryan blackhawke wrote:
>i am in a conversation right now with a woman named carla who seems to work
>for daemon records. she has a column on the website. her take is we
>shouldn't be surprised this happened. i interpret her column as saying we
>deserved this. or at the very least that those who died at the pentagon did.
>my brother could have been at the pentagon that day and i very much resent
>her attitude. i certainly hope amy does not share this view.
>
>ryan (who would serve in the navy again to protect the right of carla to
>denounce my country)
>
i very  much doubt that is her position at all. it is much more
likely to reflect the simple fact that a nation who's foreign policy
has sacrificed millions of equally innocent civilians over the years,
who's intelligence agencies recruit terrorists and tyrants, including
the very man suspected of masterminding this latest tragedy, should
not be surprised when violence reaches our shores. that violence is
deplorable and those responsible should be hunted down; so  should
those who slaughtered nuns and priests and school teachers and union
organizers and common people across the globe after being trained and
armed by our nation's governments.

to those who condemn my response, i simply say that i demand the
right to reply to those who would condemn those who seek to
understand why this tragedy occurred and  how to build a world that
rejects violence.

chris (who would serve again in the army to protect the right of ryan
to denounce those who call for peace everywhere; who would not serve
again to rain destruction on those every bit as innocent as the
victims of new york and washington.)
--
--
christopher j. carroll
<cjcarroll1@earthlink.net>

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 14:02:57 -0700
reply-to:     ryan@hawke2.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         ryan blackhawke <ryan@hawke2.com>
subject:      fw: ig on wtc/dc?
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> my brother works for the government. my grandfather served in the
> military. as did several uncles. as did i. you have the right to
> denounce the services we provided in order to protect that right.
> i have a right to say as wrong as my government may be at times,
> now is not the time to be saying we asked for it but to unite
> behind our countrymen and women who are about to be called to
> duty once again. i am a carnivore, feminist, lesbian who sure as
> hell did not vote for the person sitting in office right now. but
> i realize when it is important to belay the blame game and stand
> behind my country.
>
> if you denounce the memory of my grandfather and uncles, if you
> imply that those who died in the pentagon had it coming (which i
> will take to mean my brother had it coming), expect me to be very
> angry. as angry as i am over the anti-arab violence going on in
> this country right now.
>
> i shall not post anymore about this here for i have just said all
> i intend to say about it. if you have something to say to me, you
> can email me at ryan@hawke2.com or hawke210@home.com or
> hawke2@yahoo.com or hawke2@hawke2.com or hawke210@hotmail.com. i
> may answer, i may not. for now, i am going to deal with the utter
> anger i feel in private.
>
> ryan
>
> > -----original message-----
> > i very  much doubt that is her position at all. it is much more
> > likely to reflect the simple fact that a nation who's foreign policy
> > has sacrificed millions of equally innocent civilians over the years,
> > who's intelligence agencies recruit terrorists and tyrants, including
> > the very man suspected of masterminding this latest tragedy, should
> > not be surprised when violence reaches our shores. that violence is
> > deplorable and those responsible should be hunted down; so  should
> > those who slaughtered nuns and priests and school teachers and union
> > organizers and common people across the globe after being trained and
> > armed by our nation's governments.
> >

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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 15:15:09 -0600
reply-to:     garian <vigil@ucsu.colorado.edu>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         garian <vigil@ucsu.colorado.edu>
subject:      teaching tolerance (fwd)
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for people who feel the need to do something in their own communities,
one resource is the southern poverty law center  <www.splcenter.org> and
in particular the material from their teaching tolerance project.  if you
are unaware, this is a massive free distribution of curriculum in the
public schools to promote tolerance.  the website has a variety of useful
material for teachers, parents, and kids.

what you may find useful is the 10 ways to fight intolerance:

   1. act
   2. unite
   3. support the victims
   4. do your homework
   5. create an alternative
   6. speak up
   7. lobby leaders
   8. look long range
   9. teach tolerance
   10. dig deeper
source <http://www.tolerance.org/10_ways/index.html>

with students waking to religious blasphemies scrawled on their doors and
women in veils being spit upon, i think this list is particularly relevant
for us all.  this can be a way to react to this week's tragedy in a
positive and constructive way.

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=========================================================================
date:         sat, 15 sep 2001 07:37:51 +1000
reply-to:     sherlyn koo <sherlyn@fl.net.au>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         sherlyn koo <sherlyn@fl.net.au>
subject:      fw: september 15 benefit for the american red cross
x-to:         ecto@smoe.org
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

hey folks,

for those of you in the seattle area, this came to me
via the indiegrrl list...

-sherlyn

---begin forwarded message---
date: thu, 13 sep 2001 19:03:40 -0700
from: holly figueroa <holly@hollyfigueroa.com>
subject: september 15 benefit for the american red cross

hi there,

there will be a benefit for the american red cross in seattle on
saturday, september 15. all songwriters are welcome to come and share a
song, and donate to the cause. for information, read below or email
john.albert@att.net

concert anouncement and invitation to perform:
>
>seattle folklore society presents:  "a healing concert"
>
>where:
>the grateful bread (206) 525-3166
>7001 35th ave ne, seattle
>
>when:
>saturday september 15 at 8pm
>
>this is a free concert but donations will be accepted
>and given to the american red cross in support of the
>relief effort in new york and washington.
>
>seattle area musicians, singers & songwriters will gather
>for a night of music and healing in support of the
>amercian red cross.
>
>the format will be a "writers in the round" style
>concert in which all who come and wish to offer a song
>will be welcome.
>
>a minister from the unitarian chruch will offer a
>message of healing and prayer.
>
>please pass this message on to friends and family.
>
>thanks ....
>--
>john albert
>voice/fax: 206/985-1757
>mobil/page: 206/601-5312


--

holly figueroa
http://www.hollyfigueroa.com * http://www.indiegrrlrecords.com
http://www.cdbaby.com/figueroa *http://www.mp3.com/hollyfigueroa

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 14:38:46 -0700
reply-to:     susan burk <sburk@geckotech.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         susan burk <sburk@geckotech.com>
subject:      a little bit of healing
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: multipart/alternative;
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this message is in mime format. since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_nextpart_001_01c13d65.f55d20d0
content-type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"

i went through something today that i thought might be worth sharing. the
events of the week have been so tragic & anything good seems to be welcome
right now.

i'm an emt for a small fire department in king county, suburbs of seattle.
this morning a package was delivered to us from the local high school.
inside were 100's of letters from the students telling us how much they
appreciate what we do. this wasn't an assignment. no grades were being given
or bonus points. a few of the students got the idea & others ran with it. i
can't tell you what it meant to us. i hope that the emergency personnel in
new york , dc and pa who lost their lives knew that they were loved &
appreciated by their community. unfortunately they will never get to see it
in writing or hear it out loud, but hopefully they knew.

during the moment of silence today we sat in the bus turn around at the high
school in our aid car & engine with our lights on to let the students know
that we love & care about them too. it seems to me that's the best anyone
can do to help heal.

i want to point out that i'm not in any way trying to lessen the loss of the
people who weren't emergency personnel in new york, dc and pa, i just have a
little closer kinship with them because of what they do & what i do.

susan

------_=_nextpart_001_01c13d65.f55d20d0
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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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charset=3diso-8859-1">
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5.5.2448.0">
<title>a little bit of healing</title>
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<p><font face=3d"times new roman">i went through something today that i =
thought might be worth sharing. the events of the week have been so =
tragic & anything good seems to be welcome right now.<br>
<br>
i'm an emt for a small fire department in king county, suburbs of =
seattle. this morning a package was delivered to us from the local high =
school. inside were 100's of letters from the students telling us how =
much they appreciate what we do. this wasn't an assignment. no grades =
were being given or bonus points. a few of the students got the idea =
& others ran with it. i can't tell you what it meant to us. i hope =
that the emergency personnel in new york , dc and pa who lost their =
lives knew that they were loved & appreciated by their community. =
unfortunately they will never get to see it in writing or hear it out =
loud, but hopefully they knew.<br>
<br>
during the moment of silence today we sat in the bus turn around at the =
high school in our aid car & engine with our lights on to let the =
students know that we love & care about them too. it seems to me =
that's the best anyone can do to help heal.<br>
<br>
i want to point out that i'm not in any way trying to lessen the loss =
of the people who weren't emergency personnel in new york, dc and pa, i =
just have a little closer kinship with them because of what they do =
& what i do.<br>
</font>
<br><font color=3d"#000080" size=3d2 face=3d"arial">susan</font>
</p>

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------_=_nextpart_001_01c13d65.f55d20d0--

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 15:50:20 -0600
reply-to:     garian <vigil@ucsu.colorado.edu>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         garian <vigil@ucsu.colorado.edu>
subject:      amy's essay
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

did everyone already see the anti-nuke essay by amy on the official
website?  it is dated 9/6

http://www.indigogirls.com/activism/activism_frame.html

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date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 16:17:14 -0700
reply-to:     ginny newsom <vgnewsom@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         ginny newsom <vgnewsom@yahoo.com>
subject:      re: ig on wtc/dc?
in-reply-to:  <bpeilenbfchbichfdmidmehecgaa.ryan@hawke2.com>
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i just read her article and i didn't read anything
that gives me the idea that she thinks we deserved
this.  and, i agree with her that we shouldn't be
surprised that this happened...but that doesn't mean
that i think that we deserved it.  i frankly am not
surprised that some people in other countries hate us
that much.  look at some of the things that our
country has done.  how about the iran/contra affair?
we sold arms under the table to iran so that we could
fund terrorists who were trying to overthrow their
government.  our administration actually thought they
had the right to do that.  over 10,000 people were
killed in nicaruaga with weapons that out government
gave to the terrorists.  and, many us citizens who had
gone to nicaragua on peace missions died at the hands
of these terrorists.  that, and many other actions by
our government make us look like arrogant bullies. did
you ever see the movie, "the accused," with jodie
foster?  some of her actions definitely made her more
likely to be raped, but that doesn't mean she deserved
it....just that she made decisions that made it more
likely to happen.  i see this as that same sort of
thing, and i think that is what that article at daemon
is trying to say...that there have been actions by our
government that have led to others hating us that
much.


--- ryan blackhawke <ryan@hawke2.com> wrote:
> i am in a conversation right now with a woman named
> carla who seems to work
> for daemon records. she has a column on the website.
> her take is we
> shouldn't be surprised this happened. i interpret
> her column as saying we
> deserved this. or at the very least that those who
> died at the pentagon did.
> my brother could have been at the pentagon that day
> and i very much resent
> her attitude. i certainly hope amy does not share
> this view.
>
> ryan (who would serve in the navy again to protect
> the right of carla to
> denounce my country)
>
> > -----original message-----
> > from: indigo girls mailing list
> > [mailto:indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org]on behalf
> of barbara bordner
>
> > being this is an ig list, i wonder if anyone has
> heard anything about
> > amy and emily's take on this whole thing? i hope
> all their loved ones
> > and friends are alright. anyone?
>
> --
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__________________________________________________
terrorist attacks on u.s. - how can you help?
donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/us/emergency_information/

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 16:38:15 -0700
reply-to:     wherever <wherever@qwest.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         wherever <wherever@qwest.net>
subject:      excellent letter explaining the situation in afghanistan
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

this letter is by tamim ansary, an afghan-american woman and
writer living in the us.

*****

dear friends,

yesterday i heard a lot of talk about "bombing
afghanistan back to the stone age." ronn owens, on kgo
talk radio allowed that this would mean killing
innocent people, people who had nothing to do with
this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept
collateral damage," and he asked, "what else can we
do? what is your suggestion?" minutes later i heard a
tv pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do
what must be done." and i thought about these issues
especially hard because i am from afghanistan, and
even though i've lived here for 35 years i've never
lost track of what's been going on over there. so i
want to share a few thoughts with anyone who will
listen.

i speak as one who hates the taliban and osama bin
laden. there is no doubt in my mind that these people
were responsible for the atrocity in new york. i
fervently wish to see those monsters punished. but the
taliban and bin laden are not afghanistan. they're not
even the government of afghanistan. the taliban are a
cult of ignorant psychotics who captured afghanistan
in 1997 and have been holding the country in bondage
ever since. bin laden is a political criminal with a
master plan. when you think taliban, think nazis. when
you think bin laden, think hitler. and when you think
"the people of afghanistan" think "the jews in the
concentration camps." it's not only that the afghan
people had nothing to do with this atrocity. they were
the first victims of the perpetrators. they would love
for someone to eliminate the taliban and clear out the
rats nest of international thugs holed up in their
country. i guarantee it. some say, if that's the case,
why don't the afghans rise up and overthrow the
taliban themselves? the answer is, they're starved,
exhausted, damaged, and incapacitated. a few years
ago, the united nations estimated that there are
500,000 disabled orphans in afghanistan--a country
with no economy, no food.

millions of afghans are widows of the approximately
two million men killed during the war with the
soviets. and the taliban has been executing these
women for being women and have buried some of their
opponents alive in mass graves. the soil of
afghanistan is littered with land mines and almost all
the farms have been destroyed. the afghan people have
tried to overthrow the taliban. they haven't been able
to.

we come now to the question of bombing afghanistan
back to the stone age. trouble with that scheme is,
it's already been done. the soviets took care of it .
make the afghans suffer? they're already suffering.
level their houses? done. turn their schools into
piles of rubble? done. eradicate their hospitals?
done. destroy their infrastructure? there is no
infrastructure. cut them off from medicine and health
care? too late. someone already did all that.

new bombs would only land in the rubble of earlier
bombs. would they at least get the taliban? not
likely. in today's afghanistan, only the taliban eat,
only they have the means to move around. they'd slip
away and hide. (they have already, i hear.) maybe the
bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they
don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs.
but flying over kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't
really be a strike against the criminals who did this
horrific thing. actually it would be making common
cause with the taliban--by raping once again the
people they've been raping all this time.

so what else can be done, then? let me now speak with
true fear and trembling. the only way to get bin laden
is to go in there with ground troops. i think that
when people speak of "having the belly to do what
needs to be done" many of them are thinking in terms
of having the belly to kill as many as needed. they
are thinking about overcoming moral qualms about
killing innocent people. but it's the belly to die not
kill that's actually on the table. americans will die
in a land war to get bin laden. and not just because
some americans would die fighting their way through
afghanistan to bin laden's hideout. it's much bigger
than that, folks. to get any troops to afghanistan,
we'd have to go through pakistan. would they let us?
not likely. the conquest of pakistan would have to be
first. will other muslim nations just stand by? you
see where i'm going. the invasion approach is a
flirtation with global war between islam and the west.

and that is bin laden's program. that's exactly what
he wants and why he did this thing. read his speeches
and statements. it's all right there. at the moment,
of course, "islam" as such does not exist. there are
muslims and there are muslim countries, but no such
political entity as islam. bin laden believes that if
he can get a war started, he can constitute this
entity and he'd be running it. he really believes
islam would beat the west. it might seem ridiculous,
but he figures if he can polarize the world into islam
and the west, he's got a billion soldiers. if the west
wreaks a holocaust in muslim lands, that's a billion
people with nothing left to lose, even better from bin
laden's point of view. he's probably wrong about
winning, in the end the west would probably
overcome--whatever that would mean in such a war; but
the war would last for years and millions would die,
not just theirs but ours. who has the belly for that?
bin laden yes, but anyone else?

i don't have a solution. but i do believe that
suffering and poverty are the soil in which terrorism
grows. bin laden and his cohorts want to bait us into
creating more such soil, so they and their kind can
flourish. we can't let him do that. that's my humble
opinion.

tamim ansary

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 19:48:43 -0400
reply-to:     susan brill <susan.brill@yale.edu>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         susan brill <susan.brill@yale.edu>
subject:      nigc: if hillary and rudy can do it...
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

hey all,

just heard on npr about the bipartisan grouping of ny politicians and pres.
bush today at the wtc site. they mention that rudy giuliani _kissed_
hillary clinton, an image i just could not get to work in my mind. but
somehow i found myself thinking of our ig list.  if hillary and rudy are
kissing, surely we can forget political differences at this time as
well!  a group of ig lovers just cannot be more politically polarized than
those two - yikes. and i just can't believe h & r could do better at
uniting in spite of political differences in a crisis like this one.

so here's a big smackeroo for all of you in ig land -
%#mmmmwwwwwa!>*&$%#!  (that was an ekiss...)

  (if you aren't up on ny politics, and why should you be?, hillary and
rudy ran against each other for us senate before rudy dropped out due to
his diagnosis of prostate cancer. hillary went on to defeat replacement
candidate rick lazio. neither of these guys was known to be too enamored of
hillary, and i'm not too sure how hillary felt about either of them...)

be well and do what you can for good in this world in whichever way you do
it best. i feel some momentum growing as people feel the power of working
together for good. i hope it will last a while.

-s.

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 14 sep 2001 20:10:49 -0400
reply-to:     mike reynolds <michael_reynolds@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         mike reynolds <michael_reynolds@yahoo.com>
subject:      re: nigc: if hillary and rudy can do it...
x-to:         susan brill <susan.brill@yale.edu>
in-reply-to:  <4.3.2.7.2.20010914192315.00ba6c90@sueb.mail.yale.edu>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

at 07:48 pm 9/14/01, you wrote:
>hey all,
>
>just heard on npr about the bipartisan grouping of ny politicians and pres.
>bush today at the wtc site. they mention that rudy giuliani _kissed_
>hillary clinton,


...is this one of those urban legends or a sign of the apocalypse? is there
a picture???

whatever - let's keep the victims/missing in our prayers.

mike r. - who sat somewhere near susan at the uconn q&a...


mike reynolds
michael_reynolds@yahoo.com
http://www.uppity-disability.net/


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