lifeblood: listlogs: 2003-01e


=========================================================================
date:         wed, 29 jan 2003 00:22:19 est
reply-to:     lisa071573@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         lisa071573@aol.com
subject:      sigc: getting rid of some old magazines
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hey everyone -
i'm doing some spring cleaning and i have stacks and stacks of old magazines
(i have this bad habit of saving everything!) ... i hate to toss them without
checking to see if anyone wants any :p  all of these are in pretty good
shape... i'm listing the magazine, the date, who's on the cover and anything
else that may entice you to take it off my hands ;)


entertainment weekly, 12/17/99 - matt damon and gwyneth paltrow
entertainment weekly, 12/10/99 - the green mile cover, stephen king article
the advocate, 6/20/00 - k.d. lang
the advocate, 11/20/01 - absolutely fabulous
the advocate, 11/6/01 - anne heche cover, some madonna stuff (missing an
interview with dar williams cause i ripped it out :p)
the advocate, 10/26/99 - james dale (gay boy scout), interview with kimberly
pierce - boys don't cry, some madonna stuff
advocate, 12/7/99 - christopher landon
advocate, 8/31/99 - kevin williamson and katie holmes, review and photos of
better than chocolate
advocate, 4/13/99 - cover story on barebacking, some elton john stuff
advocate, 11/9/99 - matthew perry, review of indigo girls - come on now
social
advocate, 10/12/99 - matthew shepard (one year later)
advocate, 9/28/99 - wilson cruz, small article in the music section about
catie curtis
advocate, 2/19/02 - aids ride creator dan pallotta
advocate, 8/29/00 - christopher rice (anne rice's son)
advocate, 7/20/99 - gay travel, small article in music section on kate
schellenbach
advocate, 8/17/99 - barbra streisand, double issue of best activists,
includes small blurbs on ellen, melissa etheridge, chastity bono
advocate, 4/27/99 - dusty springfield, article on gay tv including neve
campbell/party of five blurb, small bit about ellen in the movie section
advocate, 5/25/99: greg louganis / transgender issues, interview with jesse
ventura
advocate, 5/11/99: diana ross, article on womyn's music festivals (includes
small photo and blurb about melissa ferrick)
advocate, 1/16/01 - jason gould (barbra streisand's son)
advocate, 7/18/01 - mtv's real world / don't ask don't tell, small article on
sinead o'connor
advocate, 7/4/00 - george w. bush - what if he wins (ah, the good old days
before he was president...), small bit on eminem
advocate, 2/16/99 - the marine who was a porn star
advocate, 3/30/99 - gays in hollywood / oscars, small article on cheryl
wheeler in the music section
people, 3/29/99 - missing women in yosemite, tribute to dusty springfield,
rock and roll hall of fame stuff (small photo of melissa etheridge)
advocate, 2/2/99 - nathan lane, review of ani's upx6
advocate, 3/2/99 - xena / interview with lucy lawless


anyway, i was thinking $2  a magazine - a $1 for me and a $1 for postage...
i've also got a bunch more advocates i have to dig through, so if there's an
issue anyone's looking for, e-mail me :)
lisa


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=========================================================================
date:         wed, 29 jan 2003 01:13:03 -0600
reply-to:     greg flamer <gflame@ameritech.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         greg flamer <gflame@ameritech.net>
subject:      chicago tix for sale 2/6/03
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i have 2 extra ig seats for the chicago show at the chicago theater on 2/6
at 7:30 pm.  i bought them when they first went on sale only to get other
seats through friends.  to think i'm giving up floor seats to sit in the
balcony.   the seats are together on the main floor.  they are not fabulous
seats but certainly not bad as there are few bad seats in the chicago
theater.


the seats are mnfl3r row m seats 302 and 304. the center section is 4r and
these seats are right on the aisle between 3r and 4r.  row m is about row
40.  3r is on the emily side of the theater.


i'm asking what i paid with all the fees--$94.50, nothing more.  i'm
offering them to the list before i have to ebay them.  the show is sold out.
we can arrange a local pickup or i'd be willing to ship em to you for free
if that's not possible.  please email me asap if interested.  first come
first served.  sorry this isn't musical discussion....greg


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=========================================================================
date:         wed, 29 jan 2003 12:05:00 -0600
reply-to:     andrea crain <acrain@idea-inc.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         andrea crain <acrain@idea-inc.com>
subject:      re: chicago tix for sale 2/6/03
in-reply-to:  <ba5cdb1e.1bc4%gflame@ameritech.net>
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not to step on your toes, greg, but i too just found out i need to sell my
chicago tickets. i bought them in december; in january, my gf signed up
for a thursday night class! eek! if we'd thought about it then, maybe she
would have taken a different class, ha... this is killing me, but if i can
sell the chicago tickets, i hope to get some madison ones. there are still
some available for that show, though chicago is sold out. so, my tickets
are at:


indigo girls
chicago theatre, chicago, il
thursday february 06, 2003 7:30 pm
seat location: section mnfl4r, row e, seats 406-408
total charge: $94.28


anyone want to take them off my hands? i will ship for free, too.


thanks
andrea


on wed, 29 jan 2003, greg flamer wrote:


> i have 2 extra ig seats for the chicago show at the chicago theater on 2/6
> at 7:30 pm.  i bought them when they first went on sale only to get other
> seats through friends.  to think i'm giving up floor seats to sit in the
> balcony.   the seats are together on the main floor.  they are not fabulous
> seats but certainly not bad as there are few bad seats in the chicago
> theater.
>
> the seats are mnfl3r row m seats 302 and 304. the center section is 4r and
> these seats are right on the aisle between 3r and 4r.  row m is about row
> 40.  3r is on the emily side of the theater.
>
> i'm asking what i paid with all the fees--$94.50, nothing more.  i'm
> offering them to the list before i have to ebay them.  the show is sold out.
> we can arrange a local pickup or i'd be willing to ship em to you for free
> if that's not possible.  please email me asap if interested.  first come
> first served.  sorry this isn't musical discussion....greg
>
> --
> do not quote other peoples' entire messages when replying to the list.
> indigo girls faq and indigo girls mailing list faq:
> http://www.pixelopolis.com/ig
>


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=========================================================================
date:         wed, 29 jan 2003 11:45:01 -0800
reply-to:     lia kueck <aeig2317@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         lia kueck <aeig2317@hotmail.com>
subject:      nigc: decatur
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hey folks, i've got some questions about decatur, does anyone live there?=
um, i mean, does anyone from the list live there that could answer some =
questions for me? thanks.get more from the web.  free msn explorer downlo=
ad : http://explorer.msn.com


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=========================================================================
date:         wed, 29 jan 2003 15:20:15 -0600
reply-to:     wilfred pennington <unclewilfred@charter.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         wilfred pennington <unclewilfred@charter.net>
subject:      st. louis tix
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i have two tickets to the 2/12 show at the pageant in st. louis, =
reserved seats in the second row of the left center section of the =
balcony. a listee has offered me tix to sit with their group, so i =
thought i'd see if anyone here was interested in buying these tickets =
from me. it looks like the reserved seating for this show is sold out, =
so i just thought i'd see if anyone needed tix. email any =
offers/questions.
thanks!
michelle


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=========================================================================
date:         thu, 30 jan 2003 09:56:58 -0600
reply-to:     "kovacs, mirinda" <mirinda.kovacs@westgroup.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "kovacs, mirinda" <mirinda.kovacs@westgroup.com>
subject:      this is terrible!
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check out this auction on ebay!  this is a fan made disc of their "hits",
the seller even states that it is not a studio produced cd.  yet there are
still two people out there who bid on it.  it is going for $15.75 right now.
man, if i didn't have this silly thing called morals i could make lots of
money off of my boots.  (okay, i better clarify that statement was totally
in jest.  i would never sell a boot!!)


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayisapi.dll?viewitem&item=2504204806&category=305


mi rinda


politicians and diapers have one thing in common. they should both be
changed regularly and for the same reason.


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date:         thu, 30 jan 2003 11:03:09 -0500
reply-to:     victoria.heckler@ppfa.org
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "<victoria heckler>" <victoria.heckler@ppfa.org>
subject:      re: this is terrible!
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this item has already been reported to ebay and is under investigation.  it
will probably be pulled.


-----original message-----
from: kovacs, mirinda [mailto:mirinda.kovacs@westgroup.com]
sent: thursday, january 30, 2003 10:57 am
to: indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org
subject: this is terrible!

check out this auction on ebay!  this is a fan made disc of their "hits",
the seller even states that it is not a studio produced cd.  yet there are
still two people out there who bid on it.  it is going for $15.75 right now.
man, if i didn't have this silly thing called morals i could make lots of
money off of my boots.  (okay, i better clarify that statement was totally
in jest.  i would never sell a boot!!)


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayisapi.dll?viewitem&item=2504204806&category=305


mi rinda


politicians and diapers have one thing in common. they should both be
changed regularly and for the same reason.


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=========================================================================
date:         thu, 30 jan 2003 08:12:49 -0800
reply-to:     "kari s." <hockeygirl832@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "kari s." <hockeygirl832@hotmail.com>
subject:      re: this is terrible!
x-to:         mirinda.kovacs@westgroup.com
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; format=flowed


i've already reported this person once for this.  apparently, he/she has a
new identity.  here's where to go if anyone else wants to report this
person.


http://pages.ebay.com/help/basics/select-rs.html?cs_direct=true


>check out this auction on ebay!  this is a fan made disc of their "hits",


>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayisapi.dll?viewitem&item=2504204806&category=305

_________________________________________________________________
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date:         thu, 30 jan 2003 11:22:15 -0500
reply-to:     anna creech <creechal@spamcop.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         anna creech <creechal@spamcop.net>
subject:      re: this is terrible!
in-reply-to:  <f36ro8lxy4dlywy6phu00000a48@hotmail.com>
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be careful.  i got burnt once by someone (who was on the list, i think) i
reported for selling copies of some pay-per-view specials.  i wouldn't be
surprised if this seller was a so-called "fan" trying to make a buck.


anna


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date:         thu, 30 jan 2003 18:05:46 -0500
reply-to:     michael reynolds <mike@uppity-disability.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         michael reynolds <mike@uppity-disability.net>
subject:      ebay horror stories
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ok - here's one you haven't heard,


my friend rob is huge in the rem/ counting crows/ wilco trading world -
we're talking like every show these bands have ever done - very cool guy
who i have met at some shows and even rode to a wilco show with him.


a few years ago - he had the chance to secure some holy grails - early
shows in 1992 of the counting crows - he paid the person 20 a tape (this
person did not want them circulating widely, and well, he had a valuable
item, and rob trades like there is no tomorrow - but as a trader (albeit
neil hunt would call me a rotten trader cus i owe him a bunch of stuff)
occasionally - i buy boots. i easily would have done what rob did in a
heart beat.


rob burned these tapes to cdr and sent a few copies to diehards in the
counting crows community - two months later, he went on ebay...

$700.00 for a 3 cd set....


rob doesnt know who or how he traded to get these shows - it wasnt like he
stated dont trade this (which is appropriate for stuff) but rob never got a
cent for his goodwill, the band lost money and some schmuck who can copy a
cdr and make a cover and label was up 700...

so yeah - it sucks - there is a reason why neil young doesnt play new and
unreleased stuff before his album comes out - and there is a reason why
many artists have become much morwe frugal with photo passes and such -
signing waiver and everything...


my. 02


but the other argument is people want it easy and without trading - hell -
i am guilty of buying cdrs of boots i have on tape to save the time
converting them...


mjr


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date:         wed, 29 jan 2003 21:23:16 -0500
reply-to:     mary post <marybpost@comcast.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         mary post <marybpost@comcast.net>
subject:      nigc: last promo for cheryl wheeler concert 1/31 in wilmington, de
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cheryl wheeler w/ kenny white in concert
january 31, 2003
8:00pm; doors open @ 7:30pm
first and central presbyterian church
1101 market street
wilmington de 19801
tickets:   $16.00 presale; $20 at the door


you can purchase tickets online by pressing the ticket web icon at
www.listeningpost.us
or by going to
www.ticketweb.com and searching for concerts in delaware
or by calling -
302-834-3732


if  you aren't interested, please pass this onto a friend .
thanks,
mary from the listening post

mary b. post
listening post productions
www.listeningpost.us <http://www.listeningpost.us/>
302.834.3732 voice
302.834.1244 fax


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date:         thu, 30 jan 2003 22:07:10 est
reply-to:     indigokat@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
comments:     rfc822 error: <w> incorrect or incomplete address field found and
              ignored.
from:         heidi smith <indigokat@aol.com>
subject:      nigc     ellen degeneres at lisner auditorium dc presale
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anyone happen to know anything about a presale for ellen tixs in dc?  please
email off list if you do.


thanks


heidi


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date:         thu, 30 jan 2003 19:40:29 -0800
reply-to:     susan burk <sburk@attbi.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         susan burk <sburk@attbi.com>
subject:      re: nigc     ellen degeneres
in-reply-to:  <8f.28c4a25d.2b6b425e@aol.com>
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i'm trying to find the password for the seattle presale as well. if you
know and could email me off list, i'd really appreciate it. :)


-----original message-----
from: indigo girls mailing list [mailto:indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org]
on behalf of heidi smith
subject: nigc ellen degeneres at lisner auditorium dc presale


>>anyone happen to know anything about a presale for ellen tixs in dc?
please
>>email off list if you do.


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date:         fri, 31 jan 2003 01:05:25 -0500
reply-to:     woodelldc@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         woodelldc@aol.com
subject:      happy new year!
x-to:         dads-yard@smoe.org, fear@things.org, jangle-poets@smoe.org,
              laurielewisfans@yahoogroups.com, ferrick@smoe.org,
              nields-nook@listbox.com
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an early happy chinese new year to everyone, especially all the sheep (1931, 1943, 1955, 1967, 1979 and 1991) who can now say, "this is my year!"
deb (a sheep herself)


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date:         fri, 31 jan 2003 10:30:18 -0500
reply-to:     jude hunter <hunterj_one@msn.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jude hunter <hunterj_one@msn.com>
subject:      ebay horror stories other not so much fantacies
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yeah, yeah, mike :)  we all *know* how bad you are at trading :)  believe=
me =3d)  maybe we just send you that stuff cuz we know it will never go =
anywhere else, ever. :)


anybody who buys a boot at a concert or on ebay deserves to be parted wit=
h their money.  what we have here is a failure of intelligence.


many times i have offered to copy a show for blanks and return postage an=
d many times the one who asks for it can't even get it together to put tw=
o blanks in a padded envelope and a couple of stamps and mail it to me.  =
i think they want me to just send it to them gratis.  =20


ok, i'm getting a little jaded...i'll stop now.


jude :)get more from the web.  free msn explorer download : http://explor=
er.msn.com


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date:         fri, 31 jan 2003 07:54:11 -0800
reply-to:     marysnshne <marysnshne@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         marysnshne <marysnshne@yahoo.com>
subject:      re: ebay horror stories other not so much fantacies
x-to:         jude hunter <hunterj_one@msn.com>
in-reply-to:  <oe56nsaeaihygz3dsup0000879a@hotmail.com>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


>
> many times i have offered to copy a show for blanks
> and return postage and many times the one who asks
> for it can't even get it together to put two blanks
> in a padded envelope and a couple of stamps and mail
> it to me.  i think they want me to just send it to
> them gratis.


i know that for me it is sometimes easier to send a
few bucks to cover the cost of the blanks and envelope
and postage used for the boot, rather than to buy
blanks and  send a sase.  sometimes i just can't be
bothered to do that because, like everyone else, i
have a lot of other things to do and a very limited
amount of time to do them, and it truthfully is a very
low priority for me.  i miss out on a lot of good
music this way, but anyway, i digress . . .


i certainly want anyone who's nice enough to make me a
boot to be compensated for the materials they use.  i
don't think anyone expects something for nothing.  i
am touched though when someone makes an offer to make
and send a free sampler or something.  i really think
the nicest people are on this list.  i know that some
traders are vehemently opposed to any exchange of
money, even though it is only money to cover
materials.  what do you think about that when money is
involved only to cover costs of materials only, and no
personal profit is made?  i personally would rather
send the cost(s) of a blank cd(s) or tape(s) to cover
costs of materials used than have to send my own
blanks and postage and sase.  when you send money to
the person who offered to make the boot, and the maker
of the boot sends the boot directly to you, it
eliminates a lot of wasted time and i don't think
anyone gets hurt in the process.  i'm not a trader so
i don't know the reasoning behind why the procedure of
sending money to cover costs of materials used is not
acceptable.  can you tell me?  i really want to know
what some opinions are out there on this practice.


thanks, elaine


=====
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   homosexuals flaming


                           ~ homer simpson


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date:         fri, 31 jan 2003 11:07:06 -0500
reply-to:     victoria.heckler@ppfa.org
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "<victoria heckler>" <victoria.heckler@ppfa.org>
subject:      re: ebay horror stories other not so much fantacies
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although i've only been active in booting/trading for about a year now, and
there are probably some good reasons why accepting $$$ to cover materials is
not acceptable, i agree with mary, that it is much simpler for all parties
involved to simply accept $$$ to cover your costs.  i purchase my cds and
jewel cases in bulk, so i am able to keep costs down, and since i burn quite
a number of copies before i offer them up, i end receiving tons of blanks
that are of substandard quality in return that i never use.  i also get a
lot of requests from newbies who have nothing to trade, or what they have to
trade are boots i already have, so its just easier for them to send money to
cover the cost of postage and materials, and if they want the artwork
printed and cut, they can send extra $$$ for that.  somehow, it always ended
up that i lost $$$ on the deal, but it was less of a hassle all around.


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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 31 jan 2003 10:07:39 -0600
reply-to:     "kovacs, mirinda" <mirinda.kovacs@westgroup.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "kovacs, mirinda" <mirinda.kovacs@westgroup.com>
subject:      re: ebay horror stories other not so much fantacies
x-to:         marysnshne <marysnshne@yahoo.com>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


just one thought, like you said you don't have time to go buy the blanks and
envelope.  for many of us it is the same way.  it is very easy to make
copies for someone when they send you everything you need.  it is harder,
and generally takes me a lot longer, if i have to provide everything.  i can
get a b&p done in a day.  if it is just money then i have to go find a
bubble envelope and make it to the post office to get postage put on the
item.  all of that takes time.  i feel that if i am being nice and burning a
boot for someone, i shouldn't have to drive 15 miles to the post office to
mail it to them.  they should provide me with all i need.  does that make
sense?  i hope i am not coming across as harsh, because that is not my
intention.
i hope y'all have a wonderful weekend!
-mi rinda


ps. i am so excited for next weekend!! ig on the 8th!


-----original message-----
from: marysnshne [mailto:marysnshne@yahoo.com]
sent: friday, january 31, 2003 9:54 am
to: indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org
subject: re: ebay horror stories other not so much fantacies

>
> many times i have offered to copy a show for blanks
> and return postage and many times the one who asks
> for it can't even get it together to put two blanks
> in a padded envelope and a couple of stamps and mail
> it to me.  i think they want me to just send it to
> them gratis.


i know that for me it is sometimes easier to send a
few bucks to cover the cost of the blanks and envelope
and postage used for the boot, rather than to buy
blanks and  send a sase.  sometimes i just can't be
bothered to do that because, like everyone else, i
have a lot of other things to do and a very limited
amount of time to do them, and it truthfully is a very
low priority for me.  i miss out on a lot of good
music this way, but anyway, i digress . . .


i certainly want anyone who's nice enough to make me a
boot to be compensated for the materials they use.  i
don't think anyone expects something for nothing.  i
am touched though when someone makes an offer to make
and send a free sampler or something.  i really think
the nicest people are on this list.  i know that some
traders are vehemently opposed to any exchange of
money, even though it is only money to cover
materials.  what do you think about that when money is
involved only to cover costs of materials only, and no
personal profit is made?  i personally would rather
send the cost(s) of a blank cd(s) or tape(s) to cover
costs of materials used than have to send my own
blanks and postage and sase.  when you send money to
the person who offered to make the boot, and the maker
of the boot sends the boot directly to you, it
eliminates a lot of wasted time and i don't think
anyone gets hurt in the process.  i'm not a trader so
i don't know the reasoning behind why the procedure of
sending money to cover costs of materials used is not
acceptable.  can you tell me?  i really want to know
what some opinions are out there on this practice.


thanks, elaine


=====
i like my t.v. loud, my beer cold, and my
   homosexuals flaming


                           ~ homer simpson


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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 31 jan 2003 08:18:51 -0800
reply-to:     marysnshne <marysnshne@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         marysnshne <marysnshne@yahoo.com>
subject:      re: ebay horror stories other not so much fantacies
x-to:         "kovacs, mirinda" <mirinda.kovacs@westgroup.com>
in-reply-to:  <7948498dae2ed51196090003473a783804077923@eg-msgmbx-b09.int.westgroup.com>
mime-version: 1.0
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thanks for your answer, but i guess i just didn't
state my question very clearly.  all i really wanted
to know why there was such opposition to people
accepting money for costs - let's just assume, for the
purposes of getting an answer to my question,  that
time is not a factor to anyone at all.  ok?  i
certainly do understand why someone would find it
easier and less time consuming to have the materials
sent to them.  i really do.  but all i want is an
answer to my question, which is, why are people
opposed to accepting money to cover costs when there
is no profit involved?  i know on several lists i am
on, it is unthinkable for some people to even accept
money for costs they incur when making a boot for
someone else . . . no one is profiting.  why this
opposition?  why this mindset?  do people really think
that by accepting equal and just compensation for
costs it is wrong?
i don't understand it and i really want to hear
opinions about this.


thanks, elaine

=====
i like my t.v. loud, my beer cold, and my
   homosexuals flaming


                           ~ homer simpson


__________________________________________________
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date:         fri, 31 jan 2003 10:23:08 -0600
reply-to:     "kovacs, mirinda" <mirinda.kovacs@westgroup.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "kovacs, mirinda" <mirinda.kovacs@westgroup.com>
subject:      re: ebay horror stories other not so much fantacies
x-to:         marysnshne <marysnshne@yahoo.com>
mime-version: 1.0
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oh!  well, i personally see no reason why that is not acceptable.  as a
matter of fact right now i am in the middle of a trade with someone who is
just starting out in the boot world.  i am making her 25 boots.  it would be
ridiculous for her to send me the blanks and pay twice what will be a large
shipping cost.  so she is just reimbursing me $0.50 per cd and the cost of
postage.  i see nothing wrong with that.  i am making no money, so there is
no problem.  i can't speak for everyone on this list, but i don't think most
have a problem with that.  it is when you do 2 for 1 or something like that.
say you ask me to make you one disc and i say sure, that will be $5.  that
is wrong because then i am definitely profiting off of that.  i'd like to
hear other's opinions on this.
:)
mi rinda


-----original message-----
from: marysnshne [mailto:marysnshne@yahoo.com]
sent: friday, january 31, 2003 10:19 am
to: kovacs, mirinda; indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org
subject: re: ebay horror stories other not so much fantacies

thanks for your answer, but i guess i just didn't
state my question very clearly.  all i really wanted
to know why there was such opposition to people
accepting money for costs - let's just assume, for the
purposes of getting an answer to my question,  that
time is not a factor to anyone at all.  ok?  i
certainly do understand why someone would find it
easier and less time consuming to have the materials
sent to them.  i really do.  but all i want is an
answer to my question, which is, why are people
opposed to accepting money to cover costs when there
is no profit involved?  i know on several lists i am
on, it is unthinkable for some people to even accept
money for costs they incur when making a boot for
someone else . . . no one is profiting.  why this
opposition?  why this mindset?  do people really think
that by accepting equal and just compensation for
costs it is wrong?
i don't understand it and i really want to hear
opinions about this.


thanks, elaine


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date:         fri, 31 jan 2003 11:25:41 -0500
reply-to:     victoria.heckler@ppfa.org
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "<victoria heckler>" <victoria.heckler@ppfa.org>
subject:      re: ebay horror stories other not so much fantacies
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


as i've already stated, i don't see anything wrong with accepting $$ to
cover the cost of the boot, but as mirinda alluded to, their are many out
there who probably try to take advantage of unsuspecting traders by
overcharging, and thats why its discouraged.


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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 31 jan 2003 13:28:59 est
reply-to:     lisamorganholt@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         lisa holt <lisamorganholt@aol.com>
subject:      every little bit helps.  (vligc)
x-to:         litkids@yahoogroups.com, teen_team@yahoogroups.com,
              marti_zins@hopkins.k12.mn.us, jonas_budris@hotmail.com,
              claire_cheney@milton.edu, iciclecake@aol.com,
              katems84@hotmail.com, ghwright@worldnet.att.net,
              rkight@scqsah.state.sc.us, sarahmaj@gte.net,
              miriam_lawrence@milton.edu, redvestpocket@hotmail.com,
              mwhitehead@andover.edu, ceollyn@yahoo.com,
              derelickthis211@aol.com, jenny.zanner@pcae.k12.mn.us,
              joao.bichinho@pcae.k12.mn.us, shadyboy1@hotmail.com
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
content-transfer-encoding: 7bit


after this is sent, i am getting out of this soft bed and going to the
kitchen, and then the desk.   i have given up on petitions, but this is worth
sending.  i love how concrete it is, and the hopeful history.  lisa


p.s.  to those of you who don't already know: i don't make a regular habit of
assaulting my address book with forwards.  worry not.

subject: people power:  applying nonviolence theory


there is a grassroots campaign underway to protest war in iraq in a simple,
but potentially powerful way.  place 1/2 cup uncooked rice in a small
plastic bag (a snack-size bag or a sandwich bag works fine). squeeze out
excess air and seal the bag.  wrap it in a piece of paper on which you have
written, "if your enemies are hungry, feed them. romans12:20.  please send
this rice to the people of iraq; do not attack them." place the paper and
bag of rice in an envelope (either a letter-sized or padded mailing
envelope--both are the same cost to mail) and address them to:


president george bush
white house
1600 pennsylvania ave. nw
washington, dc 20500
attach $1.06 in postage.  (three 37-cent stamps equal
$1.11.)


drop this in the mail today.  it is important to act now so that president
bush gets the letters asap.


in order for this protest to be effective, there must be hundreds of
thousands of such rice deliveries to the white house.  we can do this if you
each forward this message to your friends and family.  there is a positive
history of this protest!  in the1950s, fellowship of reconciliation began a
similar protest, which is credited with influencing president eisenhower
against attacking china.  read on:  "in the mid-1950s, the pacifist
fellowship of reconciliation, learning of famine in the chinese mainland,
launched a 'feed thine enemy' campaign. members and friends mailed thousands
of little bags of rice to the white house with a tag quoting the bible, "if
thine enemy hunger, feed him." as far as anyone knew for more than ten
years, the campaign was an abject failure.  the president did not
acknowledge receipt of the bags publicly; certainly, no rice was ever sent
to china. "what nonviolent activists only learned a decade later was that
the campaign played a significant, perhaps even determining role in
preventing nuclear war.  twice while the campaign was on, president
eisenhower met with the joint chiefs of staff to consider u.s. options in
the conflict with china over two islands, quemoy and matsu.  the generals
twice recommended the use of  nuclear weapons.  president eisenhower each
time turned to his aide and asked how many little bags of rice had come in.
when told they numbered in the tens of thousands, eisenhower told the
generals that as long as so many americans were expressing active interest
in having the u.s. feed the chinese, he certainly wasn't going to consider
using nuclear weapons against them."


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date:         fri, 31 jan 2003 14:48:49 -0800
reply-to:     joy <neversaythat@starstream.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         joy <neversaythat@starstream.net>
subject:      re: ebay horror stories other not so much fantacies
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i've offered tons of b&ps on this list and others in the past few years,
along with taping some shows, so i'd like to add my .02 on the practice
of sending $$ for costs rather than a regular b&p. i think that the no
$$ mindset that has been asked about has at least two different sides to
it:


1) with many groups of traders, grateful dead comes to mind, the policy
of the band is that you can trade like for like, but that no money can
be involved....when you trade a disk for a disk, or send someone a b&p
where they burn a show and send it back, you are not giving the data on
the disk any $$ value.  i understand that we are talking about paying
only for costs, but it is just considered bad form in many circles to do
it this way.  the bands say trading like for like is okay, and that no
money should exhange hands, and many groups of traders take these rules
seriously.


2) this one has to do with the point that mirinda kovacs made - i'm
sorry but i do feel like i need to give a more detailed explanation of
this point....it was mentioned that it takes time to get the materials
for a b&p together to send, so i'm going to give an example of the time
involved for a taper/someone who offers b&ps.  here is a typical (for
me) list of things that have to be done to put out a good sounding boot:
    tape show (which involves, for me, standing as still as possible and


               being silent for the entire show) - 2 hrs
    transfer show from dat to cdr - 2 hrs (i check repeatedly to make
sure
               everything is going well)
    edit show (including eqing and cutting into tracks) - from 3-5+
hours so, that is anywhere from 7 to 9+ hours just to get the show ready
to go (not including artwork), and that doesn't include the time/$$ to
takes to keep your taping gear running and loaded with media.  then, if
you are like me, you love to share the music and so you make b&p
offers...now, i can do other things while the disks are burning, but the
fact is that my cd drive is tied up, as are other things on my computer,
so it does cut into my time.  and, when i offer up a show, i generally
take every person that emails me (unless they think that b&p means they
just send their address and you send them everything for free - jude,
this doesn't just happen to you!!!! argh!!!!). for ig shows this has
been up to 50 people.  generally, i would say that for a two disk show,
i'll have between 40 to 80 disks to burn for the people that responded.
even if i didn't tape the show and am just offering up a b&p to help
other people hear it, there is a considerable amount of time and effort
involved, along with wear and tear on my burner.  so, after all that, i
feel that it is just common courtesy for the person i'm burning for to
have supplied all of the materials i'll need to get the show to them.
if they can't show me the courtesy of sending the supplies, then i'm not
going to feel compelled to take the time to burn a show for them - more
than likely, i'm going to feel insulted.  i'm sure that this feeling is
also behind the sentiment noticed on other lists regarding $$ for costs.
i understand that the specific question asked about this is a
hypothetical one where time is not a factor, but i don't think you can
really take time out of the equation and get a satisfying answer.


i don't mean to come off as harsh here either, and i completely
understand that not everyone responding to a b&p offer is as obsessed
with trading live music as i am. :-p  i'm just hoping that by giving a
detailed look at what is involved for those who are taping and/or doing
b&p offers why someone who just wants to send $$ to cover costs might
rub me or someone else the wrong way.  i put a lot of time in to do it
right, and to get people their disks back as quickly as possible.  in
return i expect that people will follow regular b&p guidelines (which
can be found here, for anyone who is interested:
http://www.mcnichol.com/bnp/).  it's cool that someone like victoria
would have a different process in place that would easily allow for $$
for cost to be sent, but that is not my method nor the method of the
majority of traders out there, for a bunch of different reasons.


sorry this is so long everybody. :-p


joy:-d


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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 31 jan 2003 17:48:24 -0500
reply-to:     victoria.heckler@ppfa.org
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "<victoria heckler>" <victoria.heckler@ppfa.org>
subject:      re: ebay horror stories other not so much fantacies
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


all i have to add is i am grateful for joy's post which details how much
time and labor she puts into her boots.  i thought i was doing something
wrong because it takes me several hours to transfer the show from minidisc
to cdr...including uploading, editing, mastering for better sound quality,
etc.  and the artwork takes me even longer.  sadly, i have about 12 shows
still on minidisc from last fall that i simply haven't had time to transfer!


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date:         fri, 31 jan 2003 18:34:37 -0500
reply-to:     susan marine <susmarine@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         susan marine <susmarine@hotmail.com>
subject:      show me the tapes and the sase and the stamps, baby!
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/html


elaine sez:>

>i know that for me it is sometimes easier to send a
>few bucks to cover the cost of the blanks and envelope
>and postage used for the boot, rather than to buy
>blanks and send a sase. sometimes i just can't be
>bothered to do that because, like everyone else, i
>have a lot of other things to do and a very limited
>amount of time to do them, and it truthfully is a very
>low priority for me. i miss out on a lot of good
>music this way, but anyway, i digress . . .

it is easier for *you* but not easier for me, the one who is taping for you. i now have to take the extra step that you got to avoid, go to cvs and buy the mailers and the tapes and then go to the post office and buy the stamps. the idea behind asking people to send a sase and stamps and blank tape is that it spares the person who is actually doing the favor of making a copy for you from having to do anything besides put the tape in the player and push "record". they are already doing some labor for you, so why ask them to do anything else? unless of course they have nothing better to do with their time than do very time consuming favors for strangers, and i think jude's point was, how could anyone be so arrogant as to think that? (btw, elaine is a wonderfully nice person and not at all arrogant, so elaine, i am not accusing you of thinking that...just arguing the case for why you should send your own supplies instead of a few bucks).

it's not enough to just send money for the materials, because my time is worth money and you've just asked me to spend some of it shopping for you :) this is why people sometimes 'defend' charging for boots, but my thinking is this: if you tack on a few bucks to cover the time you spent shopping for me, that's fair and i'll pay it. lots of people disagree but.....

my time is money people, and so is yours!

:)

sus

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 31 jan 2003 18:40:46 -0600
reply-to:     dweiden@ix.netcom.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         diane <dweiden@ix.netcom.com>
subject:      speaking of b&p...& by songbook
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...it reminds me i haven't offered any in awhile, so any two of the
following for b&p or trade.  i'll take as many as i can.


diane


by "making of" quicktimes  (computer disk) 1 disc
7/11/02 portland 2
7/12/02 eugene 2
7/13/02 berkley, ca - the greek 2
7/31/02 san diego 2
8/1/02 wedgewood rooms - portsmouth 2
8/3/02 union chapel - london 2
8/4/02 cambridge folk festival, england 1
8/6/02 queen's hall - edinburgh 2
8/7/02 liverpool univ.  uk. 2
8/8/02 ambassador- dublin 2
9/14/02 poughkeepsie ny 2

and news from the girls official site:


january 30, 2003 - coming soon!
     the "become you" songbooks are hot off the press! these have just
been completed and include all music sheets and guitar parts
     for the entire album as well as a color photo section from the
recording sessions. these will be available online very soon, we'll pass


     along more information as it becomes available.


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date:         fri, 31 jan 2003 16:48:44 -0800
reply-to:     melissa anderson <melissa@u.washington.edu>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         melissa anderson <melissa@u.washington.edu>
subject:      teaching yourself to play the guitar
in-reply-to:  <3e3b178e.c47399a6@ix.netcom.com>
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i'd like to learn to play the guitar.
i'd rather learn by reading books and practicing, rather than taking
lessons, if possible.  i took some piano lessons as a kid, so i can read
music.  anyone have any advice, and equally important, anyone have an book
recommendations on how i should get started?


thanks,


melissa


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date:         fri, 31 jan 2003 20:33:32 -0500
reply-to:     michael reynolds <mike@uppity-disability.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         michael reynolds <mike@uppity-disability.net>
subject:      a clarification
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right now i owe 2 people on this list cds - jude got hers - a bit late -
but worth the wait, eh jude?


mike r.


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date:         fri, 31 jan 2003 20:33:16 -0600
reply-to:     adp1 <adp1@mc.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         adp1 <adp1@mc.net>
subject:      re: ebay horror stories other not so much fantacies
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well i have 2nd row seats  at the chicago theater for thursdays' shows (
same place we sat for ani) and from what i recall the ushers are pretty
strict about you sitting and being quiet to hear the show which makes
great booting but not great audience participation... so..
i'm going to boot it
and then i'm going to burn it
and then i'm going to offer it up
and i promise if you want a boot i will:
take a few bucks if you don't send anything( cause i have the stuff
already) or
not take a cent if you send me everything  or
send it to you and pay for everything if you're a real good sweet
talker.


hows' that for diplomacy ;o)


pooh


( who is also sneaking in  the digital camera so they'll be some good
art work too
but for that i'm charging $892!!!!!!!!!...
that, btw, was a joke but when you're taking as much percocit as i am ,
anything is funny)


--
please do not send excessive amounts of quoted text and/or nigc,
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indigo girls faq and indigo girls mailing list faq:
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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 31 jan 2003 22:12:20 est
reply-to:     indigokare@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "karen r." <indigokare@aol.com>
subject:      midwest bound :)
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
content-transfer-encoding:  7bit


well, tomorrow morning i'm off for my tour of the midwest with ig.  :)


hope to see some of you in urbana, iowa city, chicago, or milwaukee.


yeah!  the midwest tour starts tomorrow!!!!


:-) karen
packing....


***********************************
"the center held the bonded slave for the sake of industry, the center held
the bloody hand of the executioner man" ~~ amy ray, indigo girls


--
please do not send excessive amounts of quoted text and/or nigc,
long signatures, attachments or flames to the list.
indigo girls faq and indigo girls mailing list faq:
http://www.pixelopolis.com/ig


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