lifeblood: listlogs: 2004-05a


=========================================================================
date:         fri, 30 apr 2004 23:29:54 -0500
reply-to:     andrea crain <acrain@idea-inc.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         andrea crain <acrain@idea-inc.com>
subject:      re: wax bush? nigc
in-reply-to:  <24809-40931c2f-575@storefull-3138.bay.webtv.net>
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well, i meant you'd need to add a comma if you wanted it to be read as
"grow stronger and more intense, bush." the shirt is great as is.

on fri, 30 apr 2004, barbara bordner wrote:
> oh come on i suppose we should all dot our i's
> and cross our t's and start our sentences with
> capital letters and punctuate them and write
> in paragraphs like we were all taught in school
>
>
> i actually took a look at that wax bush  and honestly, adding a comma
> would have done
> nothing to help me understand what that
> meant and i doubt it would have helped anyone
> else.
>
>
> barb
>
>
>
>

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date:         fri, 30 apr 2004 23:40:56 -0500
reply-to:     andrea crain <acrain@idea-inc.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         andrea crain <acrain@idea-inc.com>
subject:      re: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway? nigc
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yes, that's it exactly. i hate bush because he has different views than
me. i hate everyone with different views than me, especially when they act
on those views to send our civil liberties, the environment, gay rights,
the right to choose and the lives of thousands of soldiers and civilians
down the toilet. i'm so ashamed. let's all just be nice from now on. bush
is such a friendly guy, i don't know why i thought a t-shirt comparing him
to unwanted body hair was amusing! hmmm. maybe we should get ashcroft to
ban all political satire, since it's so worthless.

on fri, 30 apr 2004, ryan simantel wrote:

> damn, there is a lot of bush-bashing on this list. so much, my boyfriend once
> asked me if i was subscribing to some underground hate group. but anyway, is
> there some deep pleasure out of making fun of this guy that i am missing out
> on?
>
> ok, ok, so i don't know &%$& about politics, but i do know a bit about common
> sense. and i hate to break it to you, but making fun of someone, no matter
> how funny the acronym on your t-shirt is, ain't gonna help your cause out at
> all.
>
> i donno, i guess i just see so much bashing on this list that it makes me
> wonder what a lot of these people are fighting for. do you not like him because
> he is different from you? because his views are different from yours? are you
> then saying that someone should hate you if they don't agree with you as well?
>
> sorry if i offended anyone, i just had to get that off my chest and on to my
> keyboard.
>
> take care,
>
> ryan
>
> --
> please do not send excessive amounts of quoted text and/or nigc,
> long signatures, attachments or flames to the list.
> indigo girls faq and indigo girls mailing list faq:
> http://www.pixelopolis.com/ig
>

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date:         sat, 1 may 2004 01:03:57 -0500
reply-to:     lawyerman <eml@lawyerman.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         lawyerman <eml@lawyerman.net>
subject:      cd offer for long time listees is closed.
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i finally reached ten people with correct answers to my trivia questions.
therefore, the offer for the cd download is now closed.

i asked two trivia questions and only one correct answer was needed:

(1) who was the list administrator in 1992?
answer: stephen spencer

(2) what was the email address of the list in 1992?
answer: indigo-girls@cgrg.ohio-state.edu

one person even got the optional question of who was list administrator
prior to 1992. the answer is niki pantelias, who i believe was the list
founder in 1990.

this was kind of fun. i might do another trivia question next week geared
towards long time list members for those that didn't get an opportunity to
answer this time around.

for those who haven't been on the list 10+ years, just remember that
google is your friend. :)

eddie
eml@lawyerman.net

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date:         sat, 1 may 2004 02:18:43 -0500
reply-to:     greg flamer <gflame@1000wadams.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         greg flamer <gflame@1000wadams.net>
subject:      re: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway?
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> i donno, i guess i just see so much bashing on this list that it makes
> me
> wonder what a lot of these people are fighting for. do you not like
> him because
> he is different from you? because his views are different from yours?

to add to tim's thorough list..

how about the fact that he is in favor of amending the constitution to
clearly discriminate against gay people.

how about nucular weapons vs nuclear weapons.  learn to pronounce the
friggin word already.

how about the inability to admit even a single mistake made in the
events that lead up to the iraq war before a live national audience.
(duh, i dunno. i'm not to quick on my feet here.  don't have an
answer.)

that's a very short list.  i have not disliked a president, been
ashamed to be american (go dixie chicks) or considered moving to canada
more in my life than over the last three years.  it's just the
arrogance if i had to pinpoint it to one word.

but back to the music.  i did want to throw in a few cents on the
rarities cd and beg for some other obscure covers.  total agreement on
winthrop, but like sus, doubt the whole plane imagery will go over
well.  along those lines, the actual song airplane sure seems trite
now.  there's much bigger reasons to fear flying now that emily
probably didn't think about when she wrote that one.  doubt we'll see
high horse as much i'd love to hear those 'ride out of my sight' lyrics
(see above gw bush comments).  i would love it if they threw on some
really old cover songs from when they first started.  how about house
at pooh corner (last i heard this played was the $10 tour on a bottom
line nyc boot from 93).  how about girl's talk by elvis costello.
maybe even love the one your with or love of the common people.  these
were all covered on some really dusty boots i have.  they've covered
summer highland falls by billy joel which was a great version in my
opinion.  lifeblood would be great along with of course mona lisas.
one can dream.  enjoy the weekend!--greg

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=========================================================================
date:         sat, 1 may 2004 01:44:40 -0700
reply-to:     "janice l. monforton" <jmonfort@csci.clark.edu>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "janice l. monforton" <jmonfort@csci.clark.edu>
subject:      re: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway?
x-to:         ryan simantel <rtsimantel@aol.com>
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> i donno, i guess i just see so much bashing on this list that it makes me
> wonder what a lot of these people are fighting for. do you not like him because
> he is different from you? because his views are different from yours? are you
> then saying that someone should hate you if they don't agree with you as well?

whereas some of things i do not like about bush may fall under the
category of "different views", i see no reason to embrace someone who is
blatantly attacking my rights by trying to pass an anti-gay constitutional
amendment. and since a large percentage of this list is queer (and i
assume the rest are queer-friendly), a lot of us are feeling the personal
attack on ourselves and our loved ones. not to mention his work to take
away women's rights, again, a personal subject on a largely female list.
(i am biting my tongue so very hard here to not go on and on about all the
other things he does that make me angry.) so if bush despises me so much
as a gay woman that he is working to take away my rights and convince
others that i deserve no rights, why should i respect or like him in
return? and even if you don't give a rat's ass about little ol' me and my
rights, think of it this way, how many laws against gays have to be passed
before someone like our beloved ig are no longer able to freely make their
fabulous music because, i dunno, they're in jail for breaking sodomy laws
or some rot like that. now seriously, go get some education about politics.
-sam (thrilled that patti smith was on tv tonight)

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=========================================================================
date:         sat, 1 may 2004 10:29:36 edt
reply-to:     woodelldc@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         deb woodell <woodelldc@aol.com>
subject:      re: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway?
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sam wrote,
> thrilled that patti smith was on tv tonight)
>
>
--
       now, that's something to really! get my emotions up in arms about!
haha, i have never had the great fortune to see her live, and i at least try to
catch her on tv, so i'm totally bummed now! what show, sam?
       on the realy topic at hand, while my emotions don't rise to the level
of hate -- because hate is an evil emotion and i refuse to sink to the level
of people who hate -- i vehemently disagree with bush and his policies and wish
i had the power to vote him out of office today for all that he has done*
deb
*tim's list, and more!

===
the further in you look, the further out you see... -- sonia rutstein
===
you want a rich experience on this earth, so seek it out. -- nicole kidman

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date:         sat, 1 may 2004 10:48:39 edt
reply-to:     mgsb@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         mgsb@aol.com
subject:      wintrop
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<<<i second jason's sentiments re: winthrop. i'll be so disappointed if this
fabulous, moving song by emily doesn't make it on to the rarities record. i
have speculated that one reason she doesn't sing it anymore is because of the
loss of lives in 9/11.>>>

we actually were at a private ig concert back in feb and i asked emily if
winthrop was going to be on the rarities cd and she said it looks like it will
be.  she kinda gave me the thumbs up to that song being on there.  so hopefully
that won't change.

sandy

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date:         sat, 1 may 2004 09:53:43 -0700
reply-to:     graham ames <heepybear@jefu.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         graham ames <heepybear@jefu.net>
subject:      re: winthrop
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oh, i hope and hope and hope this is true.  i've seen winthrop
performed twice, maybe three times, and each time it's been an amazing
experience.  being one of the songs not on any of their cds, it usually
means the crowd gets very quiet and listens intently, allowing the
emotional content of the song to sink into the audience in a much more
"experiential" way.  the effect has always been similar to the first
time a song you've not heard (or truly appreciated before) speaks truth
to your heart, and you're drawn in and live the lyric while it's being
presented to you.  i think i even saw this during its first round of
appearances, on one of their "writing songs for a new cd" tours, and it
was perhaps the first time i'd seen emily sit at a piano and play.  i
love this song, and have always felt a little let down with each new ig
cd release to discover that it's not yet been chosen for inclusion.

i had heard at some point in the past, an interview or chat or
something, that the reason it hadn't been included thus far was the
girls select songs trying to tie into an album's "theme", and that they
hadn't found a place for it thematically on any of their cds yet.  i
also remember that the reason philosophy of loss was a "hidden" track
on cons was that they really wanted to include it, but felt it didn't
fit the "theme" of the cd, so they just "didn't" include it as part of
the album, but as a "seperate" entity.

i always thought that was an interesting and valid reason for a
practice that i really hate -- x minutes of silence and a song tacked
on after that can really bum out a "random" setting on an mp3 jukebox
or multiple disc cd-changer.  thank goodness for audio tools!  :)

graham ames

on may 1, 2004, at 7:48 am, mgsb@aol.com wrote:
>
> we actually were at a private ig concert back in feb and i asked emily
> if
> winthrop was going to be on the rarities cd and she said it looks like
> it will
> be.  she kinda gave me the thumbs up to that song being on there.  so
> hopefully
> that won't change.

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date:         sat, 1 may 2004 11:30:43 -0700
reply-to:     tony fraps <aquaspec@sbcglobal.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tony fraps <aquaspec@sbcglobal.net>
subject:      nigc: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway?
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--- ryan simantel <rtsimantel@aol.com> wrote:
but anyway, is there some deep pleasure out of making
fun of this guy that i am missing out on?

at least for me, bush-bashing is not pleasureable, it
is necessary political speech (btw the highest form of
protected free speech in our country!) in order to
oppose a politician whose motives, ideologies, and
actions i abhor.

thomas paine wrote, "the only thing necessary for evil
to prevail is for good people to do nothing" (as in
not vote!)

this is supposed to be a representative republic (not
a democracy however) whereby the "people" elect
politicians with views who closely represent their own
ideology.

bush w. and his father bush "have no good idea who the
masses are" (thanks emily!).  they represent the
billionaire multinational corporations not the people
of this great country.

it is time for the people to take back the power we
transferred to the political system which is out of
control.  however, if you listen to the bush regime,
you are just downright villianous and unpatriotic to
question anything this administration does!

for example, the bush administration was outraged that
a photographer had the gall to take pictures of the
flag-draped coffins of gi's returning home from iraq.
and the republicans went crazy yesterday because of
ted koppell's nightline reading of the names and
showing of the pictures of the 721 dead soldiers their
leaders sent into harm's way.

what happened to free speech and honest disclosure.
are we the american people supposed to be kept in the
dark regarding what is happening all over the world in
the name of america and our people?


> ok, ok, so i don't know &%$& about politics, but i
> do know a bit about common sense. and i hate to
break it to you, but making fun of someone, no matter
> how funny the acronym on your t-shirt is, ain't
> gonna help your cause out at all.

it's all about political free speech and promoting a
point of view.  the "wax bush - vote 2004" t-shirt
(which btw i received in the mail today and will be
wearing tonight, along with my billionaires for bush
button) simply translates "beat bush in 2004, get out
the vote!".  i cannot think of more innocous political
speech than that and it really does not make fun of
bush at all.  it does however suggest bush is a lousy
president!

> i donno, i guess i just see so much bashing on this
> list that it makes me wonder what a lot of these
people are fighting for. do you not like him because
> he is different from you?

yes.  i do not agree with his religious views,
including proposing a contitutional amendment to ban
gay marriage (and i am a married hetero with 2 kids).

i do not agree with his new world order mentality of
taking over the world politically and economically and
forcing other cultures to accept democracy wheater
they want it or not.

i opposed the invasion of iraq, the killing of
thousands of innocent iraqi civilians (many women and
children) and the death so far of over 700 of our own
citizens in the fight for oil domination.

i oppose spending 200 billion of american taxpayer
monies on the war in irag.  and it turned my stomach
the other day when i heard we were sending an
additional 10 billion to rebuild iraqi hospitals and
medical services when 60% of the american population
cannot afford decent health care (including my wife
and i) while american health care costs are rising
dramatically.

furthermore, the economy sucks!  when "w" took office
there was a balanced federal budget and no federal
deficit.  since bush has been in office we have lost
20 million american jobs and the federal deficit is
the highest in american history!

i could go on all day, but i hope you get the point.
there are many real reasons people want bush out of
office, and this is a much more serious situation than
just making fun of one person!

for interesting bumper stickers and buttons check out
www.billionairesforbush.com and www.gwbush.com,
including:

"corporations are people too - billionaires for bush"

"regime change starts at home"  "no w"

"which is worse - screwing an intern or screwing the
country?"

"i want to be irrationally exhuberant again"

"small government, big wars"

don't be misled, these are serious political messages,
with a little wry humor added!

if the day comes where we cannot criticize our elected
officials, it is past time for a political revolution!

with deepest sincerity,
tony fraps

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date:         sat, 1 may 2004 15:53:27 edt
reply-to:     rtsimantel@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         ryan simantel <rtsimantel@aol.com>
subject:      re: nigc: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway?
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thanks for all your replies. it has really made me think.. so thank you.

bottom line is: it seems to me that if you are going to stand for no war,
peace, love and all that, then you should *really* stand for that, and not wage
war and hate against the people that you disagree with. because in a way, you
have become them.

i'm sure everyone can make tons of lists as to why mr. bush is a "villain,"
but i'm also sure that there are plenty of other highly educated people who
could make a list just as long about why he's not. that said, there will always
be someone on the other side of the fence who is just as hell-bent that they
are right as you are. just as passionate. just as convinced. and throwing stones
over at them ain't gonna do jack. "will it bring us together?" umm. no.

again, i'm not trying to offend anyone, i'm just throwing out some ideas. who
knows, i could be very wrong.

thanks all,

ryan

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date:         sat, 1 may 2004 13:24:36 -0700
reply-to:     tony fraps <aquaspec@sbcglobal.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tony fraps <aquaspec@sbcglobal.net>
subject:      nigc: the other side (kerry bashing)
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hkf's,

i just wanted to point out that the political bashing
goes both ways.  my father-in-law who is as much
pro-bush as i am anti-bush told me this "joke" a
couple of days ago:

a third grade teacher asked each member of her class
what type of work their fathers' did.  when it was
little johnnie's turn, he told the class that his
father was a male stripper at a gay club and that if
the men paid him enough money his father would also
have sex with them.

the teacher was aghast and asked to see johnnie after
class.  the teacher asked johnnie if his story was
true.  johnnie said, "no, but i was too ashamed to
tell the class that my father is a kerry campaign
volunteer."

most of the anti-bush slogans i have seen have some
basis in reality, based upon bush's record and
qualifications and not purely spiteful and mean as
this kerry joke is.

i think this "joke" is typical of right-ring fanatics.
anyone who supports the democrats or kerry is an
amoral faggott and whore.  i'm surprised they didn't
insinuate kerry is a terrorist also, but maybe that
hits too close to home, since dubya is actually the
one reigning terror all over the world.

"gw bush - not a crackhead anymore!"

"i wasn't using my civil liberties anyway"

"re-elect bush, because you've waited for armageddon
long enough!"

"bush & sons, inc. (formerly the united states of
america."

"bush, born on third base, thought he hit a triple."

can't we all just get a bong?  (uuuuh, no!  the feds
threw tommy chong in jail for selling them and
threatened to arrest his entire family!)

tony

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date:         sat, 1 may 2004 18:07:45 -0400
reply-to:     jason hare <hare@optonline.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jason hare <hare@optonline.net>
subject:      re: winthrop
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>we actually were at a private ig concert back in feb and i asked emily if
>winthrop was going to be on the rarities cd and she said it looks like it will
>be.  she kinda gave me the thumbs up to that song being on there.
>so hopefully
>that won't change.
>
>sandy

ooooooohhhhhhhhhh......

:-d

jason

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date:         sat, 1 may 2004 16:28:45 -0700
reply-to:     marysnshne <marysnshne@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         marysnshne <marysnshne@yahoo.com>
subject:      re: nigc: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway?
in-reply-to:  <1e.28642e01.2dc55a37@aol.com>
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> i'm sure everyone can make tons of lists as to why
> mr. bush is a "villain,"

i think quite a few on the list already made cases,
and quite nicely too, in support of mr. bush's villian
status.

> but i'm also sure that there are plenty of other
> highly educated people who could make a list just as

>long about why he's not.

i agree with you there - i'm sure many could come up
with lists to support bush's status as "god's gift to
america" and also his anti-villian status.    it seems
to me that one's education level doesn't necessarily
dictate one's sense of equality or compassion. there
are many "highly educated" people in the government,
many of whom are homophobic or would sooner screw over
a loved one by denying marriage and civil rights to
gays(dick cheney and lesbian daughter come to mind)
than to go on record and state the right thing.  how
can cheney live with himself?

bottom line - anyone who would deny civil rights to a
group of people is a cretin.  i can't respect anyone
who supports a president who believes some of the
things bush believes.

elaine - who is highly educated but cannot and will
not come up with a list about why bush is not a
villian.


=====
"sometimes, life sends us lessons sent in ridiculous packaging"

                           ~ dar williams ~


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=========================================================================
date:         sat, 1 may 2004 18:59:29 -0700
reply-to:     tara <tara8595@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tara <tara8595@yahoo.com>
subject:      free stuff to the first email reply...
in-reply-to:  <12e.406a332f.2dc327ff@aol.com>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

because i just don't feel like ebay'ing....

let me know if anybody wants any of this stuff.
it's pretty much just free.  i'll even pay for
shipping, though if you had a cool bootleg to
send me, or chocolate, cool pics, etc, i wouldn't
turn it down...

first come first served, just let me know your
address and what you want, you can have all of
it, or part of it, or whatever...

1. nomads indians saints cd (not the one with the
extra stuff)
2. 2 copies of ig limited edition tower cd (live
- gotm, andy, ozilline, gone again, and studio
wood song)
3. javier cd sampler - crazy, beautiful u r, slow
motion, song for your tears (snippet)
4. blur cd - m.o.r., pop scene, song 2, bustin +
dreamin
5. gin blossoms cd - follow you down, til i hear
it from you
6. en vogue - funky divas cd
7. gloria estefan - you'll be mine (party time) 8
mixes cd maxi
8. luscious jackson cd - naked eye mixes +
banana's box and foster's lover
9. leann rimes - how do i live cd (2 mixes)
10. emmet swimming - arlington promo cd single
11. ace of base- the sign cd - 2 mixes plus young
and proud and happy nation.
12. ace of base - all that she wants cd - 4 mixes

let the games begin...

tara8595@yahoo.com (reply to me, not to the list)


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=========================================================================
date:         sat, 1 may 2004 20:41:35 -0700
reply-to:     tara <tara8595@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tara <tara8595@yahoo.com>
subject:      free ig stuff spoken for...rest still up for grabs...
in-reply-to:  <20040502015929.6794.qmail@web12302.mail.yahoo.com>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

ig stuff is claimed - please somebody take the
rest off my hands - maybe one of you in college
could distribute to your friends?

--- tara <tara8595@yahoo.com> wrote:
> because i just don't feel like ebay'ing....
>
> let me know if anybody wants any of this stuff.
> it's pretty much just free.


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date:         sun, 2 may 2004 01:36:17 -0400
reply-to:     tim baldwin <havanamoon@juno.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tim baldwin <havanamoon@juno.com>
subject:      re: nigc: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway?
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actually the 'wax bush' t-shirt is rather mild in comparison to a bumper
sticker directed at papa bush that was prominently displayed in a local
women's bar where i played on many occasions...

i do think that the nov 2004 election is one of the most critical moments
in world history.  i hate to consider the ramifications that would come
from having the judicial branch of government in the pocket of the
radical right, along with the executive branch, and both houses of
congress.  we stand at this moment one supreme court justice away from
the fourth reich or orwell's 1984...

or the handmaid's tale...

if we fail, as a people, to put aside our fear and stand up for what is
right for all of humanity, history will surely judge us harshly...

are you prepared for an endless war on 'terrorism' with untold thousands,
more likely millions of civilian casualties - people like us with lives
and dreams who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time - plus
an ever-increasing number of our friends and neighbors sacrificed as
cannon fodder by the chicken hawk brigade.  there's already talk of
reinstating the draft, but you can bet no bushes or cheneys or rumsfelds
will be on the front lines...

peace,
tim

on sat, 1 may 2004 15:53:27 edt ryan simantel <rtsimantel@aol.com>
writes:
>
> bottom line is: it seems to me that if you are going to stand for no
> war,
> peace, love and all that, then you should *really* stand for that,
> and not wage
> war and hate against the people that you disagree with. because in a
> way, you
> have become them.
>
> i'm sure everyone can make tons of lists as to why mr. bush is a
> "villain,"
> but i'm also sure that there are plenty of other highly educated
> people who
> could make a list just as long about why he's not. that said, there
> will always
> be someone on the other side of the fence who is just as hell-bent
> that they
> are right as you are. just as passionate. just as convinced. and
> throwing stones
> over at them ain't gonna do jack. "will it bring us together?" umm.
> no.

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date:         mon, 3 may 2004 09:39:11 -0400
reply-to:     henry troup <htroup@bigfoot.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         henry troup <htroup@bigfoot.com>
subject:      re: nigc: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway?
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain

on may 3 , tim baldwin <havanamoon@juno.com> wrote:
...we stand at this moment one supreme court justice away from
> ...orwell's 1984...
> are you prepared for an endless war on 'terrorism' ...

oceania has always been at war with eurasia

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date:         mon, 3 may 2004 10:28:28 -0700
reply-to:     tony fraps <aquaspec@sbcglobal.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tony fraps <aquaspec@sbcglobal.net>
subject:      nigc: political ramblings
x-to:         henry troup <htroup@bigfoot.com>
in-reply-to:  <200405031352.i43dqegg000711@webmail2.magma.ca>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- henry troup <htroup@bigfoot.com> wrote:
of tony fraps' statement, "thomas paine wrote, "the
only thing necessary for evil to prevail is for good
people to do nothing" (as in not vote!)
>
> fond as i am of thomas paine, it is usually
> attributed to edmund burke (surprise):

thanks henry for the correction!  i did look up in my
copy of thomas paine's common sense and the rights of
man (1776) a few accurate and telling quotes from
paine:

"the cause of america is in a great measure the cause
of all mankind.

society is produced by our wants, and government by
our wickedness; the former promotes our happiness
positively by uniting our affections, the latter
negatively by restraining our vices.  the one
encourages intercourse, the other creates
distinctions.  the first is a patron, the last a
punisher.

society in every state is a blessing, but government
even its best state is but a necessary evil."

paine warns that "the elected must never form to
themselves an interest separate from the electors."

"the more men have to lose, the less willing are they
to venture.  the rich are in general slaves to fear,
and submit to courtly power with the trembling
duplicity of a spaniel.

tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we
have this consolation with us, that the harder the
conflict, the more glorious the triumph.  what we
obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.

i love the man that can smile in trouble, that can
gather strength from distress, and grow brave by
reflection.  'tis the business of little minds to
shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose
conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his
priciples unto death.

let them call me a rebel, and welcome, i feel no
concern from it;  but i should suffer the misery of
devils, were i to make a whore of my soul by swearing
allegiance to one whose character is that of a
sottish, stupid, stubborn, worthless, brutal man."


does any of this sound familiar 230 years later?

tony

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=========================================================================
date:         mon, 3 may 2004 10:43:37 -0700
reply-to:     tony fraps <aquaspec@sbcglobal.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tony fraps <aquaspec@sbcglobal.net>
subject:      re: nigc: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway?
in-reply-to:  <20040501232845.95421.qmail@web41712.mail.yahoo.com>
mime-version: 1.0
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--- marysnshne <marysnshne@yahoo.com> wrote:
> one's education level doesn't necessarily
> dictate one's sense of equality or compassion.

consider this for fodder, though:

the rasmuessen poll shows that dubya's largest group
of supporters are white males without a college
education.

white males with a college education support kerry
over bush.

tony

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=========================================================================
date:         tue, 4 may 2004 15:37:10 -0400
reply-to:     indigokare@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "karen r." <indigokare@aol.com>
subject:      thanks for voting for ig
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

hey,

just a quick message to thank everyone who voted for ig in kfog's legends of rock poll.  ig fans sure can rock the vote.  the ballot was looooong and ig came in at number 19!!!!  that is so awesome!  thanks to everyone who voted!

xoxo

karen
***
"some artists don't have anything else to say beyond their gut feeling that war (or again, insert any political issue) is wrong or right, and some of them do - amy ray of the indigo girls, for example, most certainly knows more about media consolidation and the destruction of native lands than at least 50% of our congressmen." -- "performing songwriter," march/april 2004

"you can grow what you want, but one day it's gonna rise up, so plant what you need to make a better stand..." -- amy ray

http://www.indigogirls.com
***

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=========================================================================
date:         tue, 4 may 2004 14:46:49 -0700
reply-to:     jer <sobaroque@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jer <sobaroque@yahoo.com>
subject:      starkville picture
mime-version: 1.0
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hello all
i recently went on a road trip down south which took me through starkville, ms, of all places.  i took a picture of the starkville sign and it came out kinda cool.  thought i'd share it with everyone.

http://www.geocities.com/sobaroque/starkville.jpg

peace,
jeremy


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=========================================================================
date:         tue, 4 may 2004 17:16:07 -0500
reply-to:     "rick c. hodgin" <foxmuldr@ameritech.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "rick c. hodgin" <foxmuldr@ameritech.net>
subject:      re: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway?
in-reply-to:  <20040430.201218.3940.0.havanamoon@juno.com>
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> nothing.  unless you're uncomfortable with any or all of the following:
> 1) a stolen election

nothing was stolen.  that's a democrat's complaint that their guy didn't get
in office.

> 2) war profiteering

proof?

> 3) lies and misrepresentations

every politician is guilty of this.

> 4) the orchestrated dismantling of the bill of rights

i'll grant this one.  when attorney general john ashcroft was hospitalized
with gallbladder problems, bill mahrer did a bit where he said they weren't
sure what caused the problems, but they think he might've contracted an
infection or virus when he was wiping his @ss will the bill of rights. :)

btw, the supreme court is about to give bush a talking to on some of his
policies.  we do have checks and balances in this country.  they aren't
often immediate to respond, but they often respond.

> 5) the questions left unanswered by the 9-11 commission

there was nothing we could've done prior to 9-11.  people crying otherwise
are just that:  crying.  no one thought people would use airplanes as
weapons that way.  and no one thought an attack could be orchestrated so
completely and carried out so brilliantly.  9-11 was the price we paid for
allowing anyone to enter our borders.

> 6) a regressive social agenda

that's republican philosophy, i.e. "smaller government".  in fact, i'd argue
that bush has taken the most steps toward a progressive social agenda of any
republican in his position since ... well, probably ever.

> 7) dead and dismembered human beings, mostly women, children and the
> infirm or elderly as a result of an illegal war entered into in spite of
> the worldwide opposition

oh give me a break.  propaganda!

> 8) a foreign policy that endangers every american citizen through an
> escalation of anti-american feelings throughout the world

that didn't start with bush, but he has done absolutely nothing to dissuade
it.  there's a great ani difranco line:  "that day [on 9-11] when america
fell to its knees, after strutting around for a century without saying
'thank you' or 'please'."

> 9) american service personnel used as pawns in an international chess
> game by 'chicken hawks' who themselves avoided service

asp are always pawns.  elected officials make policy, they are the
instruments of that policy.  if you don't like it, form a coalition and
change it.  bottom line, we need asps to keep the peace.  anyone who thinks
otherwise isn't dealing with reality.

> 10) the blurring of the line between church and state that was one of the
> founding principles of this nation

i disagree wholeheartedly with the people on your side on this one.  i don't
believe bush's faith is in any way shape or form harming our government.  he
is a religious man, and has been since his drinking got so out of hand that
he had to do something to help himself.

it is now part of who he is, period.  what's wrong with carrying that
strength forward and making it known?  it's not like he's advocating a
constitutional amendment asking for a national religion.  he's just a
faithful man.

> 11) the rape of the environment by special interests

*laugh*  that's bush's fault?  that has more to do with politics in general
than anything one man has done, even if he is the president.  our system has
been corrupted, and the voters have allowed it to be that way because people
don't care.  they are handed a small range of talking points or issues to
form their decision on who to vote for, or whom not to vote for.  they don't
look at everything, just the sound bites.

it's the people's fault, not the special interests.  anyone who thinks
otherwise hasn't thought the matter through.

> 12) the removal of the elected president of haiti

i've heard tale on this one.  haven't seen any proof.  do you have some?

> 13) the removal of the elected president of venezuela

ibid.

> 14) incompetence

we'd all be hung.

> 15) deceit

on this one, i agree completely.  bush flatly lied to us about the reasons
for us going to war with iraq.  for that, he deserves impeachment.  (most
of) the rest of it is just sounding off.

you want to know the one thing that would solve every problem we're facing
today?  if you think it through, it's quite simple:  a *mandatory* term
limit of one term in office for *all* governmental positions.  the house
should be extended to 6-year terms and cycled through like the senate.
everyone gets one term in office, period.  you can be a senator, a
representative and even president.  but, that's it.  once you've done it,
you're out.

that one facet alone would remove the corruption we see in government today.

- rick c. hodgin

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=========================================================================
date:         tue, 4 may 2004 20:05:17 -0400
reply-to:     jen lucero <jenlucero@comcast.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jen lucero <jenlucero@comcast.net>
subject:      fw: looking for 2 boots
mime-version: 1.0
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----- original message -----=20
from: shazzi@sbcglobal.net=20
to: ig list=20
sent: tuesday, may 04, 2004 4:49 pm
subject: looking for 2 boots


anybody have any of these shows...=20

st louis, mo 3/20/94=20

columbia, mo 4/19/04=20

any quality i'm not picky.

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date:         tue, 4 may 2004 20:05:36 -0400
reply-to:     jen lucero <jenlucero@comcast.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jen lucero <jenlucero@comcast.net>
subject:      fw: [indigo-girls] starkville picture
mime-version: 1.0
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----- original message -----
from: "sheryl and pamela" <sherylandpamela@msn.com>
to: <indigo-girls@netspace.org>
sent: tuesday, may 04, 2004 7:02 pm
subject: re: [indigo-girls] starkville picture


> my sister-in-law lived in starkville for several years and we went to
visit
> her a few times.  when amy talks about specifics, i can picture it in my
> mind.

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date:         tue, 4 may 2004 20:42:56 -0400
reply-to:     bluewhale@excite.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         manivone sivilay <bluewhale@excite.com>
subject:      re: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway?
x-to:         foxmuldr@ameritech.net
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--- on tue 05/04, rick c. hodgin < foxmuldr@ameritech.net > wrote:

> nothing.  unless you're uncomfortable with any or all of the following:<br>> 1) a stolen election<br><br>nothing was stolen.  that's a democrat's complaint that their guy didn't get<br>in office.

http://www.ericblumrich.com/gta.html

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date:         tue, 4 may 2004 20:52:23 -0400
reply-to:     bluewhale@excite.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         manivone sivilay <bluewhale@excite.com>
subject:      re: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway?
x-to:         foxmuldr@ameritech.net
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--- on tue 05/04, rick c. hodgin < foxmuldr@ameritech.net > wrote:
2) war profiteering<br><br>
proof?

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030512&s=editors
http://www.inthesetimes.com/comments.php?id=637_0_1_0_c
http://www.accuracy.org/press_releases/pr121001.htm
http://www.citizenworks.org/corp/warcontracts/warcontracts.php

i can come up with more if you'd like.

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date:         tue, 4 may 2004 21:03:47 -0400
reply-to:     bluewhale@excite.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         manivone sivilay <bluewhale@excite.com>
subject:      re: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway?
x-to:         foxmuldr@ameritech.net
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--- on tue 05/04, rick c. hodgin < foxmuldr@ameritech.net > wrote:
5) the questions left unanswered by the 9-11 commission
there was nothing we could've done prior to 9-11.  people crying otherwise<br>are just that:  crying.  no one thought people would use airplanes as<br>weapons that way.  and no one thought an attack could be orchestrated so<br>completely and carried out so brilliantly.  9-11 was the price we paid for<br>allowing anyone to enter our borders.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/allpolitics/04/10/bush.briefing/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/a2285-2004apr10.html
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0409041pdb1.html
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/80601pdb.html

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date:         tue, 4 may 2004 21:09:32 -0400
reply-to:     bluewhale@excite.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         manivone sivilay <bluewhale@excite.com>
subject:      re: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway?
x-to:         foxmuldr@ameritech.net
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--- on tue 05/04, rick c. hodgin < foxmuldr@ameritech.net > wrote:
10) the blurring of the line between church and state that was one of the<br>> founding principles of this nation<br><br>i disagree wholeheartedly with the people on your side on this one.  i don't<br>believe bush's faith is in any way shape or form harming our government.  he<br>is a religious man, and has been since his drinking got so out of hand that<br>he had to do something to help himself.<br><br>it is now part of who he is, period.  what's wrong with carrying that<br>strength forward and making it known?  it's not like he's advocating a<br>constitutional amendment asking for a national religion.  he's just a<br>faithful man.<br><br>>

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/

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date:         wed, 5 may 2004 01:47:15 +0000
reply-to:     jezzie98@comcast.net
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jezzie98@comcast.net
subject:      re: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway?
x-to:         bluewhale@excite.com
x-cc:         manivone sivilay <bluewhale@excite.com>

so here is where i disagree with you, bush's "faith" has everything to do with why he is against same sex marriage, and why he doesn't support a women's right to choose! i for one find it offensive to think that my life will be controlled by a president who has said that he is instructed by god, and that is how his important decisions are made, i used to work with people who claimed the very same thing, they were given strong doses of haldol and therapy 3 times a week, but  this douche bag is president? now you say becuse gw is a drunk who used to crash into mailboxes as he drove his car home after a night of partying, has a "strong faith" he is fit to use his bible as the rule book for the rest of the country? in case you have forgotten we live in a free country ( at least it is for now) but after the bible thumping,right wing, election stealing, jackass rips every last bit of freedom we have away, you can see then just how much his "carrying  that strength forward and makin
g it known" is harmful! i am carrying my strong faith forward that people will use their heads this election, and vote bush out!

janet
>  --- on tue 05/04, rick c. hodgin < foxmuldr@ameritech.net > wrote:
> 10) the blurring of the line between church and state that was one of the<br>>
> founding principles of this nation<br><br>i disagree wholeheartedly with the
> people on your side on this one.  i don't<br>believe bush's faith is in any way
> shape or form harming our government.  he<br>is a religious man, and has been
> since his drinking got so out of hand that<br>he had to do something to help
> himself.<br><br>it is now part of who he is, period.  what's wrong with carrying
> that<br>strength forward and making it known?  it's not like he's advocating
> a<br>constitutional amendment asking for a national religion.  he's just
> a<br>faithful man.<br><br>>
>
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> join excite! - http://www.excite.com
> the most personalized portal on the web!
>
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date:         tue, 4 may 2004 21:53:03 -0400
reply-to:     bluewhale@excite.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         manivone sivilay <bluewhale@excite.com>
subject:      re: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway?
x-to:         foxmuldr@ameritech.net
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12) the removal of the elected president of haiti<br><br>i've heard tale on this one.  haven't seen any proof.  do you have some?

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/02/25/1613200
http://www.blackcommentator.com/79/79_haiti_house_pf.html
http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2004/04/04_504.html

13) the removal of the elected president of venezuela.  ibid.

http://www.squall.co.uk/squall.cfm/ses/sq=2002041201/ct=9
http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=6490
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/south_america/us_coup_venezuela.html

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date:         tue, 4 may 2004 23:03:43 -0400
reply-to:     neil hunt <neil@andineil.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         neil hunt <neil@andineil.com>
subject:      nigc: politics
in-reply-to:  <20040505015303.89b35b728@xprdmailfe19.nwk.excite.com>
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folks, i have a suggestion. the election is many months away, and the =
indigo
girls list doesn't have too much on-topic traffic as it is.

maybe a sublist could be strung together of interested listees instead =
of
having the whole list involved?

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date:         wed, 5 may 2004 02:15:52 -0400
reply-to:     tim baldwin <havanamoon@juno.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tim baldwin <havanamoon@juno.com>
subject:      only a pawn in their game?
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obviously, you are capable of taking a dispassionate view of other
people's losses.  there are real people being killed every day on both
sides.  propaganda?  incredulous...  i suggest you get your news from a
source other than fox....

this war is about oil and greed and lust for power.  bush claims to be a
man of faith, but what kind of man can unleash this infernal war machine
under false pretenses knowing that there is no such thing as a 'smart'
bomb.  these machines kill and maim indiscriminately.  the parallels to
vietnam are obvious to anyone who lived through that era.  every new
revelation is more sickening than the last...

yet while we are watching this horror show play out, another sinister
agenda is taking place behind the scenes - one which threatens the very
fabric upon which this nation was built.  do we really want the future
course of our legal system engineered by a man who is so offended by the
sight of a naked female breast that he had the upper torso of a statue
covered?  the patriot acts i and ii are but the first steps along the
road to total fascism, if improperly applied, and given the record of
this administration, would you bet against it?  what's next?  secret
police?  death squads?  you say it can't happen here???

of course i'm using hyperbole to make a point.  i certainly hope that
we're better than that, and i do have a faith in that humanity's best
traits will ultimately win out over its darker side, but only if we put
aside selfish interests and work toward the greater good of all...

in truth, i'm not by nature a very political person.  i'm a lover, not a
fighter.  i would rather make music, sing, joke, and laugh with friends
than have to face the reality of the events that are unfolding in this
world.  i would rather listen to the indigo girls sing let it be me or
get together than see flag draped caskets or mistreated prisoners, or any
of the multitude of horrors that seemed unthinkable 4 years ago...

when i discovered the indigo girls ten or more years ago, their activism
and optimism was like a beacon in the darkness.  it was one of the major
turning points in my life, and the path it has led me down has been the
most fruitful period of my existence.  this list, in its heyday, had
three times as many subscribers.  many of the most eloquent and
passionate posters are rarely, if ever, heard from now, but many of us
answered the siren call to act for social justice and progressive change,
and continue to do so to this day...

i fear not for myself.  i've led a good life, i've done the things i
wanted to do, and i've done a lot of good in small ways that have made
life better for others.  i hope i have many years left to continue my
work, but my greatest concern is for the future of people like me who
feel things a little deeper than most.  a good many people paid quite a
price to accomplish the social advances of the past 50 years, and i would
hate to see the clock turned back to the bad old days - or worse...

to amy and emily, and the many friends i've made through this list, i
love you all...

peace,
tim


on tue, 4 may 2004 17:16:07 -0500 "rick c. hodgin"
<foxmuldr@ameritech.net> writes:
> > 9) american service personnel used as pawns in an international
> chess
> > game by 'chicken hawks' who themselves avoided service
>
> asp are always pawns.  elected officials make policy, they are the
> instruments of that policy.  if you don't like it, form a coalition
> and
> change it.  bottom line, we need asps to keep the peace.  anyone who
> thinks
> otherwise isn't dealing with reality.

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date:         wed, 5 may 2004 07:31:37 -0400
reply-to:     lisalisaa <lisalisaa@earthlink.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         lisalisaa <lisalisaa@earthlink.net>
subject:      re nigc: politics
in-reply-to:  <20040505040437.2c9207acb3@lists.netspace.org>
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> from:    neil hunt <neil@andineil.com>
> subject: nigc: politics
>
> folks, i have a suggestion. the election is many months away, and the =
> indigo
> girls list doesn't have too much on-topic traffic as it is.
>
> maybe a sublist could be strung together of interested listees instead =
> of
> having the whole list involved?

i kind of like the political stuff. and there is plenty of on-topic traffic
on this list. as long as people mark the political threads nigc, why cant we
have them here?

delete the nigc posts if you dont like to read them. or there is also the
news only list for your consideration.

just my 2 cents.

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date:         wed, 5 may 2004 07:32:52 -0400
reply-to:     lisalisaa <lisalisaa@earthlink.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         lisalisaa <lisalisaa@earthlink.net>
subject:      looking for boots
in-reply-to:  <20040505040437.2c9207acb3@lists.netspace.org>
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particularly the west palm beach shows. april 1 and 2. april 1 preferred.

also, columbia mo, april 19.

thanks.

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date:         wed, 5 may 2004 06:55:11 -0500
reply-to:     "rick c. hodgin" <foxmuldr@ameritech.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "rick c. hodgin" <foxmuldr@ameritech.net>
subject:      re: nigc: politics
in-reply-to:  <003501c4324d$97b0bf30$0302a8c0@dellboy>
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all,

i did not mean to click "reply to all" when i replied.  i realized what i
had done when the message arrived in my indigo girls folder a few minutes
later.

at that time i felt somewhat stupid, but didn't feel a follow-up "oh, i'm
sorry for posting to the group" message was appropriate so i let it go.
but, many people have responded to my post.  most of them were private.
some of them weren't.

i want everyone to know i'll be more careful in the future.  and i apologize
to everyone for starting/continuing this thing the way i did. :(

- rick c. hodgin

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date:         wed, 5 may 2004 07:57:13 -0400
reply-to:     neil hunt <neil@andineil.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         neil hunt <neil@andineil.com>
subject:      re: re nigc: politics
in-reply-to:  <bcbe48d9.38ab%lisalisaa@earthlink.net>
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>>delete the nigc posts if you dont like to read them.<<

i happen to like the politics too, but i was considering those people on
digest, who don't have that option.

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date:         wed, 5 may 2004 11:43:31 edt
reply-to:     woodelldc@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         deb woodell <woodelldc@aol.com>
subject:      re: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway?
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in a message dated 5/4/04 9:10:11 pm eastern daylight time,
bluewhale@excite.com writes:

> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/
>
>
---
       this was an incredible program. should be required reading.
deb


===
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===
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date:         wed, 5 may 2004 11:51:03 edt
reply-to:     woodelldc@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         deb woodell <woodelldc@aol.com>
subject:      re: so what's wrong w/ bush anyway?
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of frontline, i wrote,

> this was an incredible program. should be required reading.

--
duh, i need a second cup of coffee. should read "required viewing"!
deb

===
the further in you look, the further out you see... -- sonia rutstein
===
you want a rich experience on this earth, so seek it out. -- nicole kidman

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date:         wed, 5 may 2004 08:57:22 -0700
reply-to:     tony fraps <aquaspec@sbcglobal.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tony fraps <aquaspec@sbcglobal.net>
subject:      re: nigc: politics
in-reply-to:  <004501c43298$1b0a1580$0302a8c0@dellboy>
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--- neil hunt (who i admire as a long time overseas
listee) suggests we take american politics off the
list b/c of it's off topic nature.

i disagree that it is far off topic, given the girls
political activism and their stance on the importance
of the upcoming election.

just my .02

tony

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date:         wed, 5 may 2004 13:14:20 -0400
reply-to:     indigokare@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "karen r." <indigokare@aol.com>
subject:      re: nigc: politics
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>i disagree that it is far off topic, given the girls
>political activism and their stance on the importance
>of the upcoming election.

agreed.

don't we have this debate *every* time?

the delete key works wonders (as does skimming the digest if you subscribe that way).  there are a lot of posts that i delete (posts about other artists that i don't care about).  it works quite well, i must say.  ;)

xoxo

karen
***
"some artists don't have anything else to say beyond their gut feeling that war (or again, insert any political issue) is wrong or right, and some of them do - amy ray of the indigo girls, for example, most certainly knows more about media consolidation and the destruction of native lands than at least 50% of our congressmen." -- "performing songwriter," march/april 2004

"you can grow what you want, but one day it's gonna rise up, so plant what you need to make a better stand..." -- amy ray

http://www.indigogirls.com
***

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date:         wed, 5 may 2004 18:17:27 +0100
reply-to:     eileen standen <eileen_standen@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         eileen standen <eileen_standen@hotmail.com>
subject:      re: re nigc: politics
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lisa wrote:

>i kind of like the political stuff. and there is plenty of on-topic traffic
>on this list. as long as people mark the political threads nigc, why cant
>we
>have them here?
>
>delete the nigc posts if you dont like to read them. or there is also the
>news only list for your consideration.

agreed - i love these discussions open to the list. and one of the many good
reasons to love ig is that they are political and would probably pitch right
in if they were listees! :)


peace,
eileen

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date:         wed, 5 may 2004 13:32:19 -0400
reply-to:     vickistein@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "digest <vicki stein>" <vickistein@aol.com>
subject:      re: re nigc: politics
x-to:         eileen standen <eileen_standen@hotmail.com>
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hey all,

i echo the sentiment and enjoy reading y'all's political commentary.  beyond that, bush is so phricking frightening as a president (don't flame me, if you want a list of his mistakes, i'll be glad to send you one privately) that i like to see the lies and atrocities exposed...even if it does offend the very few on this list who drink the "koolaid."

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date:         wed, 5 may 2004 19:09:34 +0100
reply-to:     edward hibbert <edward.hibbert@dataconnection.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         edward hibbert <edward.hibbert@dataconnection.com>
subject:      re: re nigc: politics
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as someone based in the uk, can i chime in and say i'm not overly fond of
mr. tony blair, either?

both of them terrifyingly convinced of their own righteousness.  always
scary and dangerous, that.

edward.

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date:         wed, 5 may 2004 19:25:17 +0100
reply-to:     fiona tough <fionatough@maryfield.fslife.co.uk>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         fiona tough <fionatough@maryfield.fslife.co.uk>
subject:      nigc: politics
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i live in scotland and i appreciate the insight into american politics =
that this list has given me. =20

and i have to say that i agree with edward. =20

in fact, the bush/blair partnership, in my opinion, is about the only =
weapon of mass destruction that has been found so far.  mmmm, a dramatic =
and scathing comment, i know, but in light of some of the things i've =
learned today, that's how i feel at the moment.

fi

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date:         wed, 5 may 2004 18:44:56 -0500
reply-to:     barbara bordner <ritesofpassage9@webtv.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         barbara bordner <ritesofpassage9@webtv.net>
subject:      re: re nigc: politics
x-to:         eileen standen <eileen_standen@hotmail.com>
in-reply-to:  eileen standen <eileen_standen@hotmail.com>'s message of wed, 5
              may 2004 18:17:27 +0100
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i for one happen to like noel not just because i'm political, or not
even because i love ig....
but because there is nothing more boring than
no email, and a dead ig list.......

i mean face it...if it weren't for the nigc this list
would have absolutely no depth or character whatsoever...it would just
be a bunch of people
fauning over ig...which would be so saccharine..

i can just imagine what the average post would be with everyone writing
in and discussing our ig fantasies or getting all posts that read
something like,"i've just got back from my twenty-fifth ig show this
year, tomorrow will be my twenty-sixth!!!"

or,"oh, i'm just so excited!! at the office i turned on the radio....and
lo and behold  what
did i hear? least complicated!! it was the one hundredth time!! oh it
just blew me away."

now don't get me wrong.....those posts
are great too, but i can only wallow in it for so
long without the nigc.

so....label our nigc's, and when we hit a post
we don't like it's delete-delete-delete-delete..

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date:         wed, 5 may 2004 19:17:58 -0500
reply-to:     "rick c. hodgin" <foxmuldr@ameritech.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "rick c. hodgin" <foxmuldr@ameritech.net>
subject:      re: sigc: politics
in-reply-to:  <3677-40997c78-255@storefull-3132.bay.webtv.net>
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> i for one happen to like noel not just because i'm political, or not
> even because i love ig....
> but because there is nothing more boring than
> no email, and a dead ig list.......

that lesson, while the hardest to learn, is definitely the least
complicated. :)

- rick c. hodgin

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date:         thu, 6 may 2004 01:36:05 -0400
reply-to:     diane wong <arle@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         diane wong <arle@hotmail.com>
subject:      re: nigc: politics
mime-version: 1.0
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----original message follows----
from: "karen r." <indigokare@aol.com>
reply-to: indigokare@aol.com
to: indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org
subject: re: nigc: politics
date: wed, 5 may 2004 13:14:20 -0400

don't we have this debate *every* time?

the delete key works wonders (as does skimming the digest if you subscribe
that way).  there are a lot of posts that i delete (posts about other
artists that i don't care about).  it works quite well, i must say.  ;)

******************************************************************

i must confess, even though i vote in every election (sometimes less
well-informed than others), i did skip this discussion and the delete key
was my friend.

it's just one of those things--you feel passionate about something,
something makes you angry, then you make a difference by doing something
about it.  i do admire amy and emily for taking a stand; because shirking
can be very ...irresponsible.

whatever you do or believe, keep learning, and have an open mind.

diane

_________________________________________________________________
express yourself with the new version of msn messenger! download today -
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date:         thu, 6 may 2004 12:00:06 edt
reply-to:     sp4rkie1@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         sp4rkie1@aol.com
subject:      re: indigo girls july tour dates!
x-to:         royalrose_@yahoo.com
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does anyone know the cost $$$$ of the tucson  date......although unemployed
since september and the unemp. benes have stopped....i just may be able to have
a sale to get the money....sparkie

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date:         thu, 6 may 2004 12:02:33 edt
reply-to:     indigokare@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "karen r." <indigokare@aol.com>
subject:      re: indigo girls july tour dates!
x-to:         sp4rkie1@aol.com
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tuscon tickets are $36 and not yet on sale.

all information and links to venue's sites can be found at my west coast tour
site:    http://geocities.com/indigogirlsfanatic/igwestcoast2004

xoxo
karen

***
"some artists don't have anything else to say beyond their gut feeling that
war (or again, insert any political issue) is wrong or right, and some of them
do - amy ray of the indigo girls, for example, most certainly knows more about
media consolidation and the destruction of native lands than at least 50% of
our congressmen." -- "performing songwriter," march/april 2004

"you can grow what you want, but one day it's gonna rise up, so plant what
you need to make a better stand..." -- amy ray

http://www.indigogirls.com

***

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=========================================================================
date:         thu, 6 may 2004 12:12:17 -0400
reply-to:     lauren schwartz <larsac31@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         lauren schwartz <larsac31@hotmail.com>
subject:      ig related books for sale
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; format=flowed

hello all
doing some cleaning
and came accross 2 books that some may be interested in...
first come first serve
$5 per book
and ill cover shipping

1. "lucy stone: one of america's first and greatest feminists" by elinor
rice hays
2. "basta! land & the zapatista rebellion in chiapas" by george a. collier

email me if interested
thanks
lauren
larsac31@hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
date:         thu, 6 may 2004 12:31:14 -0400
reply-to:     mark donajkowski <madonajk@alpha.delta.edu>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         mark donajkowski <madonajk@alpha.delta.edu>
subject:      nigc  feel good fun
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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if you want to hear a new band that is fun and infectus :)
go to
http://www.thebananaconvention.com

leave a note on their message board and tellem bananthony sent you :)
you can download their music and watch their videos to.

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 7 may 2004 09:16:31 +1000
reply-to:     sherlyn koo <sherlyn@pixelopolis.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         sherlyn koo <sherlyn@pixelopolis.com>
subject:      fw: new july tour date!
x-to:         ig-news@smoe.org
content-type: text/plain
mime-version: 1.0

hey folks,

here's the latest note from rcam...

-sherlyn

---------- original message ----------
date:   thu 6-may-2004 9:05am
from:   news@indigogirls.com
to:     sherlyn@pixelopolis.com
subject:        new july tour date!

another date has been added to the july tour!

07/20/2004 commodore ballroom - vancouver, bc

visit http://www.indigogirls.com/tour.html to view all the upcoming dates for the perfect world tour!

---
http://www.indigogirls.com

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 7 may 2004 11:49:19 -0400
reply-to:     ndgogrls@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         ndgogrls@aol.com
subject:      nigc- star wrist tatoo
mime-version: 1.0
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ok forgive me if i've posted this before as i may have, but i've long wondered what the blue star tatoo on the wrist of lesbians means. i've heard theories about it being a way for lesbians to identify each other back in the day,which i love, but i have never gotten a concrete answer on this. can anyone clear this up for me and/or give me a place to find the answer. it has to be written somewhere right? thanks y'all...

carla ;o)

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 7 may 2004 11:59:58 -0400
reply-to:     "heckler, victoria" <victoria.heckler@ppfa.org>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "heckler, victoria" <victoria.heckler@ppfa.org>
subject:      re: nigc- star wrist tatoo
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i've never heard of this.  i've heard of hankies being used as a means
of identification back in the day, but never blue star tattoos.  perhaps
someone at the lesbian herstory archives might be able to help you:

http://www.lesbianherstoryarchives.org/

victoria

-----original message-----
from: indigo girls mailing list [mailto:indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org]
on behalf of ndgogrls@aol.com
sent: friday, may 07, 2004 11:49 am
to: indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org
subject: nigc- star wrist tatoo


ok forgive me if i've posted this before as i may have, but i've long
wondered what the blue star tatoo on the wrist of lesbians means. i've
heard theories about it being a way for lesbians to identify each other
back in the day,which i love, but i have never gotten a concrete answer
on this. can anyone clear this up for me and/or give me a place to find
the answer. it has to be written somewhere right? thanks y'all...

carla ;o)

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 7 may 2004 12:07:31 -0400
reply-to:     chuck mongiovi <mongiovi@rcn.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         chuck mongiovi <mongiovi@rcn.com>
subject:      re: nigc- star wrist tatoo
in-reply-to:  <a611660267aaaf4882b094b85a375df603c07a08@ppfanyex1.ppfa.pp.world>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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try this:
http://www.uvm.edu/~efechter/bodyart/tattoo/tatbluestar.html
-chuck "not a lesbian" mongiovi ;)

-----original message-----
from: indigo girls mailing list
[mailto:indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org]on behalf of heckler, victoria
sent: friday, may 07, 2004 12:00 pm
to: indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org
subject: re: nigc- star wrist tatoo


i've never heard of this.  i've heard of hankies being used as a means
of identification back in the day, but never blue star tattoos.  perhaps
someone at the lesbian herstory archives might be able to help you:

http://www.lesbianherstoryarchives.org/

victoria

-----original message-----
from: indigo girls mailing list [mailto:indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org]
on behalf of ndgogrls@aol.com
sent: friday, may 07, 2004 11:49 am
to: indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org
subject: nigc- star wrist tatoo


ok forgive me if i've posted this before as i may have, but i've long
wondered what the blue star tatoo on the wrist of lesbians means. i've
heard theories about it being a way for lesbians to identify each other
back in the day,which i love, but i have never gotten a concrete answer
on this. can anyone clear this up for me and/or give me a place to find
the answer. it has to be written somewhere right? thanks y'all...

carla ;o)

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http://www.pixelopolis.com/ig

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 7 may 2004 13:54:53 -0500
reply-to:     jules <siriusjules@earthlink.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jules <siriusjules@earthlink.net>
subject:      atlanta tour dates
mime-version: 1.0
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hi, i am new to the list, and i have a question regarding the tour dates listed for atlanta, ga.  ticketmaster is selling tickets for the sunday, june 27 show at chastain park, but i can't find tickets on ticketmaster for the show listed for saturday, june 26 at the same location.  it doesn't say sold out or anything, it's just like ticketmaster isn't selling any tickets for that date.  does anyone know how i could get tickets to the saturday show?

thanks!
julie

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 7 may 2004 15:18:10 -0500
reply-to:     tgreen@uab.edu
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         todd green <tgreen@uab.edu>
subject:      i always thought the world liked emily best..........apparently 8
              years going........
content-type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
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emily, jacob most popular baby names again

fri may 7,11:18 am et
add top stories - ap to my yahoo!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=3dstory&cid=3d514&e=3d8&u=3d/ap/200=
40507/ap_on_re_us/baby_names

washington - emily again topped the list of most popular baby girl names =
last=20
year, registering as no. 1 for the eighth straight time. jacob led among=20
names for boys for the fourth year in a row.


new parents didn't stray far from past habits in 2003 when naming their=20
babies, bringing only two new names =e2=80=94 anthony and elizabeth =e2=80=
=94 into the top-10=20
lists, which were released friday by the social security administration (=
news=20
- web sites).

three more biblical names followed jacob for the boys: michael, joshua an=
d=20
matthew.

for girls, emma, madison and hannah came after emily, which has been the =
most=20
popular female name since 1996.

rounding out the top 10 for girls, in order, were olivia, abigail, alexis=
,=20
ashley, elizabeth and samantha.

the list for boys continued with andrew, joseph, ethan, daniel, christoph=
er=20
and anthony.

the social security administration bases its annual lists on applications=
for=20
social security (news - web sites) cards for children born in the given y=
ear.=20
the top 1,000 names for both boys and girls are available on the agency's=
web=20
site.=20

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 7 may 2004 15:28:00 -0500
reply-to:     tgreen@uab.edu
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         todd green <tgreen@uab.edu>
subject:      re: atlanta tour dates
in-reply-to:  <31988040.1083956094211.javamail.root@skeeter.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
mime-version: 1.0
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i'm sure it is only available as part of the chastain season pass right n=
ow.=20
after the season sales are over, it will be up on the tm site.=20

chastain is a great venue until the music starts.............

-todd

on friday 07 may 2004 01:54 pm, jules wrote:
> hi, i am new to the list, and i have a question regarding the tour date=
s
> listed for atlanta, ga.  ticketmaster is selling tickets for the sunday=
,
> june 27 show at chastain park, but i can't find tickets on ticketmaster=
for
> the show listed for saturday, june 26 at the same location.  it doesn't=
say
> sold out or anything, it's just like ticketmaster isn't selling any tic=
kets
> for that date.  does anyone know how i could get tickets to the saturda=
y
> show?
>
> thanks!
> julie

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 7 may 2004 16:09:51 -0500
reply-to:     michele curley <mida1@msn.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         michele curley <mida1@msn.com>
subject:      chicago boots?
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; format=flowed

hi y'all,

still riding the high from the two recent chicago shows. did anyone happen
to boot either show? i would especially appreciate sat., april 24 because of
my request success! i would be eternally grateful!!!

have a fantastic weekend!

peace, michele

p.s. i don't have very many boots. i have last year's chicago theatre
concert on cd. i also have some original newspaper reviews of amy's solo
shows in chicago (with the butchies). i have cassette boots of varying
quality. i have a decent cassette recording of the 2002 taste of chicago
show taped off wxrt. since i was at the show my sister taped it for me; i
think she cut off a part of a song when turning the tape over. however, i do
not have a tape-to-tape recording machine of my own; i would have to find
someone who does to tape it. since i'm moving, i may come across other ig
stuff i could part with. i'll let y'all know.

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