lifeblood: listlogs: 2004-11a


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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 12:21:23 -0500
reply-to:     barbara sanders <basand14@bellsouth.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         barbara sanders <basand14@bellsouth.net>
subject:      nigc broken heart
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i know a lot of you are too--but i am so broken hearted that kerry did =
not win!

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 09:26:43 -0800
reply-to:     toye gillman <toye77@sbcglobal.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         toye gillman <toye77@sbcglobal.net>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
x-to:         barbara sanders <basand14@bellsouth.net>
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we all suffer in this political loss; however, i'm trying to look at the bright side (if there is one)...i totally believe the "dubya" focus on gay marriage will come to an end (if only temporarily) because bush no longer needs to try to divert the american people's attention away from the iraq fiasco.  we will simply have to work harder to try to undo the damage he and his party have already done.

toye

barbara sanders <basand14@bellsouth.net> wrote:
i know a lot of you are too--but i am so broken hearted that kerry did not win!

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 12:26:24 -0500
reply-to:     bethany ward <ascoolasiam@glyphrider.org>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         bethany ward <ascoolasiam@glyphrider.org>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
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"rise up your dead.  there's life in the old girl yet."

spirit is like fluid and will continue the fight,
~bsw

barbara sanders wrote:

>i know a lot of you are too--but i am so broken hearted that kerry did not win!
>
>
>

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 13:03:05 est
reply-to:     vickistein@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "digest <vicki stein>" <vickistein@aol.com>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
x-to:         basand14@bellsouth.net
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broken hearted here, too.  bush is pure evil.  half of this country are
stupid idiots. and go ahead and flame me for that statement ~ i don't really give a
damn.  half of the people in this country are stupid idiots for voting for
the feckless warmonger.

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 18:05:17 +0000
reply-to:     tom xxxxx <getula@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tom xxxxx <getula@hotmail.com>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
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i am distraught. it's not bad enough that bush won. the republicans
increased their majorities in both houses and 11 states banned gay marriage
in their constitutions. an alarming number of gay people--23% of the gay
vote--voted for bush. what is wrong with this country? why are so many
people just sheep? how can so may queer people be so deluded and/or
self-hating?i feel betrayed and sick.

on top of this, one of my best friends found her mom dead on the floor
today, and an accused sex offender who my other best friend called the
police on got let out on bail today. i want to go under my covers and hide.

tom m
"can you mr. bush light the sage"
--- tori amos, "indian summer"


>from: toye gillman <toye77@sbcglobal.net>
>reply-to: toye gillman <toye77@sbcglobal.net>
>to: indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org
>subject: re: nigc broken heart
>date: wed, 3 nov 2004 09:26:43 -0800
>
>we all suffer in this political loss; however, i'm trying to look at the
>bright side (if there is one)...i totally believe the "dubya" focus on gay
>marriage will come to an end (if only temporarily) because bush no longer
>needs to try to divert the american people's attention away from the iraq
>fiasco.  we will simply have to work harder to try to undo the damage he
>and his party have already done.
>
>toye
>
>barbara sanders <basand14@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>i know a lot of you are too--but i am so broken hearted that kerry did not
>win!
>
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>
>--
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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 13:07:15 est
reply-to:     barbbordner@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         rites of passage <barbbordner@aol.com>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
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i'm not broken-hearted......i'm mad!!!!!!!!! dang that son of a bush.....for
coming to minnesota as often as he did just to keep kerry from focussing on
ohio!!!
dang that sucks!!!  there goes the next four years.......(sigh)......

well at least the left has more time to come together to fight the attacks
that ole dubbya is so happy to dish out........dubbaya?  t h i s  m e a n s  war
baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


barb

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 13:26:35 est
reply-to:     barbbordner@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         rites of passage <barbbordner@aol.com>
subject:      sigc first avenue in mpls: is it history?
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unfortunately so.....yesterday the company that owns it declared bankruptcy
suddenly ...... they are hoping someone will buy it and keep it going....but
right
now...it's closed....all the employees were suddenly let go without warning.

isn't that sad? i hope someone buys it....it's such a historical
landmark....i mean
that's where prince filmed purple rain, and where bands like soul assylum,
and husker du got their start.....for the ig content? they were there with sst
in 1998,
and then amy ray came back,with the butchies for stag, and then ig came back
there by themselves!  i hope this doesn't mean they'll stop coming to small
clubs here!  first avenue is the only the nightclub i know of that can hold a
good sized
ig croud in an intimate atmosphere.


barb

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 13:52:53 est
reply-to:     woodelldc@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         deb woodell <woodelldc@aol.com>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
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       as i wrote to another list, it's an eye-opener in the sense that for
everyone who pulled the lever for kerry while holding our noses, other folks
found it too disgusting to even pull that lever, and voted for bush instead.
       all over public radio today, the talk is that topping the list of
concerns for bush supporters were moral issues. so, for all the secularism and
church-state separatists out there, i am beginning to think the democrats need a
real progressive evangelical to capture that heartland vote. i know they're
out there. heck, the country did vote for jimmy carter and i cannot think of a
more godly man, who's done more since he left office than some folks do in a
lifetime. the religious left needs to reclaim the struggle for humanitarianism
and social justice and the secular left needs to get over being squeamish about
god talk. i heard an interesting discussion before the election on the local
public radio station and a local progressive evangelical said that the only
time he gets invited on christian radio is when people on the right need someone
to bash. we certainly know that a+e have christian leanings, so christians
can be leftists, too. for non-christians, i think they (and i) would support
someone who is progressive and inclusive. i am catching up on old magazines and
there is an article in my unitarian universalist magazine from 2001 about "what
would jesus do ... if he were invited to lunch with bush?" the primary point
is that jesus never turned down an opportunity to meet/dine with the
pharisees, but once he was there, he never failed to call them on their failed policies
and how they committed idolatry in worshiping their policies, and talk about
serving the poor, the hungry, the homeless, etc.
       as an old button i have says, "jesus acted up."
deb

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 13:11:57 -0600
reply-to:     tgreen@uab.edu
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         todd green <tgreen@uab.edu>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
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i blame the democratic party for this loss as well as the loss 4 years ag=
o. i=20
voted for kerry but only because it wasn't bush. many people couldn't=20
compromise themselves as much as i did, and vote for someone that they di=
dn't=20
really believe in. i'm asking myself when will the dems get another viabl=
e=20
candidate, because the last 2 haven't been. this was the opportunity of a=
=20
lifetime for the dems, and they blew it by not promoting someone that mor=
e=20
people could feel comfortable with. to me its no different than 4 years a=
go,=20
only this time around, maybe the democrats will open their eyes and blame=
=20
themselves rather ralph nader.

on a side note, there are millions of eligible voters that didn't vote, i=
'm=20
more disappointed with them, than i am with people that vote for the=20
president. at least people that vote for the president exercised their ri=
ght.

-todd=20

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 11:39:13 -0800
reply-to:     marysnshne <marysnshne@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         marysnshne <marysnshne@yahoo.com>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
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--- todd green <tgreen@uab.edu> wrote:

> i blame the democratic party . . . . , and they blew
it by not promoting someone that more
> people could feel comfortable with.

i am not sure what you are saying.  are you saying
that people didn't feel comfortable with kerry, so
they voted for bush instead, or are you saying that
because people did not feel comfortable with kerry,
votes were cast for nader ????  i'm not following you.

what do you mean about the dems not promoting
someone??  how could the dems have promoted someone
else?  that's tricky.  if they promoted someone "too
liberal" they risked losing votes to bush, imo.  if
they promoted someone too conservative, they risked
losing votes to nader.  i don't like many of the wishy
washy stances he took, but hey, at least he wasn't
bush. that's why he got my vote.  kerry played it safe
. . . .

elaine


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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 14:53:34 est
reply-to:     rtsimantel@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         ryan simantel <rtsimantel@aol.com>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
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i think statements like this express why some people had trouble  identifying
with those that favored kerry. anger and hatred don't look good on  anyone's
plate, especially on those supposedly opposed to it.

*runs and hides*

ryan

>in a message dated 11/3/2004 10:03:54 am pacific standard time,
vickistein@aol.com >writes:

>bush  is pure evil.  half of this country are
>stupid idiots. and go  ahead and flame me for that statement ~ i don't
really give  a
>damn.  half of the people in this country are stupid idiots for  voting for
>the feckless warmonger.

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 14:58:39 est
reply-to:     vickistein@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "digest <vicki stein>" <vickistein@aol.com>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
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sorry ryan.  i stand by my statement.  bush is an ineffective, greedy war
monger, corrupt beyond belief.   anyone who voted for him is stupid, and i have
no respect for anyone who voted for bush in this election.  this country is
going to hell, thanks to the corrupt bush administration.  anyone who can't
figure that out is an embarrassment to america.

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 14:08:12 -0600
reply-to:     tgreen@uab.edu
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         todd green <tgreen@uab.edu>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
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agreed that its a little vague. i believe there are a vast number of peop=
le=20
that don't align themselves with a party, i am a good example. i thought =
gore=20
was a lousy candidate 4 years ago and that bush was slightly better. so i=
=20
voted for bush. if clinton would have been able to run for a third term, =
i=20
would have voted for clinton. so as an example, i think the candidate rea=
lly=20
does matter. this time around i couldn't see allowing bush to remain in=20
office so i voted for kerry. i lump kerry in a class with gore but felt s=
o=20
strongly against bush policy over the last 4 years that i couldn't vote f=
or=20
him again. i actually felt nader was the best of the 3 yet i compromised =
my=20
vote and voted for kerry, since i knew nader didn't stand a chance. i don=
't=20
think everyone would allow themselves to compromise like that. i think th=
is=20
and an indifference to kerry, and the damn gay marrage bill in ohio reall=
y=20
hurt him.

as for who should have been promoted, beats me. around the time of the=20
primaries, the democratic party looked in complete disarray. clark, no, d=
ean,=20
no, kerry. surely with 4 years preparation they could have found a better=
=20
guy. now if barack obama would have been the man, i might have even=20
volunteered for his campaign.


on wednesday 03 november 2004 01:39 pm, marysnshne wrote:
> --- todd green <tgreen@uab.edu> wrote:
> > i blame the democratic party . . . . , and they blew
>
> it by not promoting someone that more
>
> > people could feel comfortable with.
>
> i am not sure what you are saying.  are you saying
> that people didn't feel comfortable with kerry, so
> they voted for bush instead, or are you saying that
> because people did not feel comfortable with kerry,
> votes were cast for nader ????  i'm not following you.
>
> what do you mean about the dems not promoting
> someone??  how could the dems have promoted someone
> else?  that's tricky.  if they promoted someone "too
> liberal" they risked losing votes to bush, imo.  if
> they promoted someone too conservative, they risked
> losing votes to nader.  i don't like many of the wishy
> washy stances he took, but hey, at least he wasn't
> bush. that's why he got my vote.  kerry played it safe
> . . . .
>
> elaine
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> do you yahoo!?
> check out the new yahoo! front page.
> www.yahoo.com

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 13:03:34 -0800
reply-to:     tara <tara8595@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tara <tara8595@yahoo.com>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
in-reply-to:  <200411031408.12788.tgreen@uab.edu>
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i have to agree with vicki on the stupidity of
the american people in general.  i wish people
had to take an iq test to vote.  but of course,
these are the people who vote out of fear, who
thrive on reality tv (fear factor), who belittle
others to pump up themselves, and who claim to be
christians while judging everyone else against
standards to which only they ascribe.

if only smart people could vote, we'd have a
different world.

say it with me now, hilary in '08.
if hilary wins, does bill get to live in the
white house?

tara

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 16:10:19 est
reply-to:     rtsimantel@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         ryan simantel <rtsimantel@aol.com>
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>in a message dated 11/3/2004 11:59:21 am pacific standard time,
vickistein@aol.com >writes:

>sorry ryan.  i stand by my statement.  bush is an  ineffective, greedy war
>monger, corrupt beyond belief.    anyone who voted for him is stupid, and i
have
>no respect for anyone  who voted for bush in this election.  this country is
>going to  hell, thanks to the corrupt bush administration.  anyone who  can't
>figure that out is an embarrassment to  america.


that's fine, but i don't think it's going to help your cause -- in fact, if
anything it will probably have an opposite effect. "will it bring us
together?" umm, no. mind you, there is a whole other group out there who  feel the
exact same way that you do (so-and-so is evil, the country is  going to hell) --
only they feel it about kerry.

it's funny, sometimes it seems that the  *extreme* liberals and the *extreme*
conservatives have more in common  with each other than those in their own
parties. just replace some of the proper  nouns in your statement and vuala! it
sounds like it just came out of  rush limbaugh's mouth.

we have to be smarter than that in order to change this country. we  have to
realize that the people sitting across the table from us have the exact  same
feeling of "being right and knowing the facts" in their  hearts as we do. and
before you say "but we are right!!", realize  that they are saying it to.
realize that love and peace and all that good  stuff doesn't come from the same
toolbox that hate and anger do. sound  hookey? ok, fine. but it certainly has a
lot more promise in it than "anyone who  voted for bush is stupid..."

ryan

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 13:18:56 -0800
reply-to:     marysnshne <marysnshne@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         marysnshne <marysnshne@yahoo.com>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
in-reply-to:  <200411031408.12788.tgreen@uab.edu>
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--- todd green <tgreen@uab.edu> wrote:
> now if barack obama would have been the man, i
> might have even volunteered for his campaign.

i predict this guy is going to make things happen!
maybe, the first african american president?????

it could happen - by the time he is a seasoned pol, in
maybe about twenty years???

elaine

=====
"i have earned my disillusionment, i have been working all of my life;
i am a patriot and i have been fighting the good fight"

                            ~ ani difranco ~

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 13:19:20 -0800
reply-to:     ginny newsom <vgnewsom@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         ginny newsom <vgnewsom@yahoo.com>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
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i am a republican.  i also have a high iq, high enough
that it puts me in mensa, so i think your iq test for
voting might not give you the desired outcome.  while
i am certainly not a big bush fan, i did vote for him,
as i like kerry even less.  i base my vote in any
election on how well the candidates' views mesh with
my own.  this does not mean i am a raving
fundamentalist.  and it does not mean that i am
stupid.  i find it ironic that someone can accuse
anyone who voted for bush of "...judging everyone
else...", yet in the same post, also refer to anyone
who voted for bush as stupid, an embarrassment to the
country, etc.  who's being judgemental??  oh, also i
have never seen an episode of fear factor, survivor,
or that show that people sing on.  but, i do get to
spend alot of time listening to people at work whom i
know to be democrats talk about those shows all day.
i really don't think you can make such generalizations
about someones level of intelligence, what shows they
watch, etc.  based on their presidential vote.

--- tara <tara8595@yahoo.com> wrote:

> i have to agree with vicki on the stupidity of
> the american people in general.  i wish people
> had to take an iq test to vote.  but of course,
> these are the people who vote out of fear, who
> thrive on reality tv (fear factor), who belittle
> others to pump up themselves, and who claim to be
> christians while judging everyone else against
> standards to which only they ascribe.
>
> if only smart people could vote, we'd have a
> different world.
>
> say it with me now, hilary in '08.
> if hilary wins, does bill get to live in the
> white house?
>
> tara
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> do you yahoo!?
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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 13:20:03 -0800
reply-to:     tara <tara8595@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tara <tara8595@yahoo.com>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
in-reply-to:  <20041103210334.11528.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com>
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sorry - shooting my mouth off about stupid people
and use a word wrong.  subscribe... not
ascribe... anyhow...

--- tara <tara8595@yahoo.com> wrote:

> i have to agree with vicki on the stupidity of
> the american people in general.  i wish people
> had to take an iq test to vote.  but of course,
> these are the people who vote out of fear, who
> thrive on reality tv (fear factor), who
> belittle
> others to pump up themselves, and who claim to
> be
> christians while judging everyone else against
> standards to which only they ascribe.
>
> if only smart people could vote, we'd have a
> different world.
>
> say it with me now, hilary in '08.
> if hilary wins, does bill get to live in the
> white house?
>
> tara
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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> check out the new yahoo! front page.
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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 13:23:55 -0800
reply-to:     tara <tara8595@yahoo.com>
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from:         tara <tara8595@yahoo.com>
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there's an exception to every rule.

--- ginny newsom <vgnewsom@yahoo.com> wrote:

> i am a republican.  i also have a high iq, high
> enough
> that it puts me in mensa, so i think your iq
> test for
> voting might not give you the desired outcome.
> while
> i am certainly not a big bush fan, i did vote
> for him,
> as i like kerry even less.  i base my vote in
> any
> election on how well the candidates' views mesh
> with
> my own.  this does not mean i am a raving
> fundamentalist.  and it does not mean that i am
> stupid.  i find it ironic that someone can
> accuse
> anyone who voted for bush of "...judging
> everyone
> else...", yet in the same post, also refer to
> anyone
> who voted for bush as stupid, an embarrassment
> to the
> country, etc.  who's being judgemental??  oh,
> also i
> have never seen an episode of fear factor,
> survivor,
> or that show that people sing on.  but, i do
> get to
> spend alot of time listening to people at work
> whom i
> know to be democrats talk about those shows all
> day.
> i really don't think you can make such
> generalizations
> about someones level of intelligence, what
> shows they
> watch, etc.  based on their presidential vote.
>
>
>
> --- tara <tara8595@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > i have to agree with vicki on the stupidity
> of
> > the american people in general.  i wish
> people
> > had to take an iq test to vote.  but of
> course,
> > these are the people who vote out of fear,
> who
> > thrive on reality tv (fear factor), who
> belittle
> > others to pump up themselves, and who claim
> to be
> > christians while judging everyone else
> against
> > standards to which only they ascribe.
> >
> > if only smart people could vote, we'd have a
> > different world.
> >
> > say it with me now, hilary in '08.
> > if hilary wins, does bill get to live in the
> > white house?
> >
> > tara
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > do you yahoo!?
> > check out the new yahoo! front page.
> > www.yahoo.com
> >
> > --
> > please do not send long non-indigo
> girls-related
> > forwards to the list.
> > indigo girls faq and indigo girls mailing
> list faq:
> > http://www.pixelopolis.com/ig
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 16:33:12 -0500
reply-to:     neil hunt <neil@andineil.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         neil hunt <neil@andineil.com>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
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tara said something like:

>>i have to agree with vicki on the stupidity of the american people in
general.<<

becuase fully half the population is below average intelligence.


>>i wish people had to take an iq test to vote.<<

maybe we could make them take an iq test before they procreate too?


>>if only smart people could vote, we'd have a different world.<<

a scary, scary world. "smart" is arbitrary. what makes you so sure you'd
make the cut?

:)

i think ryan covered my feelings about excessive partisanship rather well.

neil
@}--,--'--

coming soon to our house concert series here in media, pa
november 7th - the fabulous amy rigby
www.sixthst.com

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 13:37:56 -0800
reply-to:     toye gillman <toye77@sbcglobal.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         toye gillman <toye77@sbcglobal.net>
subject:      broken hearts...broken dreams
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i agree about the right voting out of fear.  no gay marriage!  that would jeopardize the american family.  yes, wouldn't it be horrible if america let those two guys that live down the street, who have been together for 15 years, have the right to be legally married?

when you think about how archaic it is to absolutely deprive american people of their rights are you not apalled?  this is what the civil rights movement was all about.  those who were considered less than human--not worthy of the right to drink out of the same water fountains as others, ride in the front of the bus, vote--they fought for what they wanted and some even gave their lives.  today, they are afforded all the privileges they rightfully deserve--and they can marry!!!  why are we the only ones who can be legally persecuted?  is this not worth fighting for?  if you don't care about marriage or the very idea of us becoming second class citizens, how about this?  do you all realize the monetary issues at hand.  for example, if i spend 25 years with a womyn, going through all the ups and downs of an enduring relationship, putting up with each other through thick and thin, do i not deserve the have her pension, or her mine?  no, we are just out of luck (and out of $$)!

personally, i believe that a vote cast for any party other than democrat or republican is just a wasted vote.  ralph probably got most of his votes from dissatisfied democrats who just couldn't bring themselves to vote for kerry.  take ralph out of the mix, and the whole thing might have turned out differently.  it is sad, but true.  a collegue of mine actually went to the polls and voted for every other position and issue except president.  why?  he could not bring himself to cast a vote for any of the candidates!  so, his was wasted also, because of the piss poor dem representation!

the democrats have not had a candidate that they could rally around since carter, in my opinion.  clinton had his moments, but there were moral issues that i feel prevented a lot of folks from supporting him.  i don't know how or who decides who the front runners in a party are, but it needs to change.

i do not really like bush or kerry.  i think edwards would have made a better candidate for president than kerry.  but when faced with the challenge of having two candidates that aren't worth a damn, i will always vote for the lesser of the two evils--and imo, this time that was kerry.  hell, at least it would have been a change.  we have been going backwards since bush was first elected.

i wanted to paint on the back of my car with shoe polish today, "the american people have just voted in another viet nam!!"

my gf is career navy and eligible to retire right now, but because of what is going on in iraq, they won't let her retire now.  i was looking forward to her being able to retire when kerry was elected and got our people out of there.  bush doesn't give a damn about anyone or anything that does not affect him personally or affect his family.  he thanks my gf for her many years of service by preventing her from retiring.  she was in dessert storm and gave many years--as did many military personnel.  i think they deserve better!

here, here on your comment about obama.  i wish we had him in missouri!

ok, enough rambling!

my 2 cents,
toye

todd green wrote:
. i believe there are a vast number of people that don't align themselves with a party, i am a good example...i thought gore was a lousy candidate 4 years ago...i think the candidate really does matter... i actually felt nader was the best of the 3...i knew nader didn't stand a chance.  i think this and an indifference to kerry, and the damn gay marrage bill in ohio really hurt him...as for who should have been promoted, beats me. around the time of the
primaries, the democratic party looked in complete disarray. clark, no, dean,
no, kerry. surely with 4 years preparation they could have found a better
guy. now if barack obama would have been the man, i might have even
volunteered for his campaign.

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 16:41:46 -0500
reply-to:     chuck mongiovi <mongiovi@rcn.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         chuck mongiovi <mongiovi@rcn.com>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
in-reply-to:  <nhbbkhmmkmnakplemkmhkecccpaa.neil@andineil.com>
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>>i wish people had to take an iq test to vote.<<

how about a test to make sure that you really know what you're voting for ..

i'm sure that'll be easy to quantify too ;)

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 13:46:07 -0800
reply-to:     toye gillman <toye77@sbcglobal.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         toye gillman <toye77@sbcglobal.net>
subject:      stupid voters?
x-to:         ginny newsom <vgnewsom@yahoo.com>
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i'm not calling anyone "stupid."  and i don't question anyone's intelligence for voting for bush.  ginny, i don't know you and don't know your sexual orientation, but this brings to mind yet another thought that i've had for a long time...gay republican is an oxymoron in my opinion.  i can't vote for a party that supports issues that negatively affect me, personally.

toye

ginny newsom <vgnewsom@yahoo.com> wrote:
i am a republican. i also have a high iq, high enough
that it puts me in mensa, so i think your iq test for
voting might not give you the desired outcome. while
i am certainly not a big bush fan, i did vote for him,
as i like kerry even less. i base my vote in any
election on how well the candidates' views mesh with
my own.

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 16:53:12 -0500
reply-to:     neil hunt <neil@andineil.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         neil hunt <neil@andineil.com>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
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tara said something like:
>>there's an exception to every rule.<<

except that there's no rule here. even though it doesn't correlate *exactly*
with iq, here's how people voted based upon their level of education:

                                bush            kerry
no high school          49%             50%
h.s. graduate           52%             47%
some college            54%             46%
college graduate                52%             46%
postgrad study          44%             55%

http://www.cnn.com/election/2004/pages/results/states/us/p/00/epolls.0.html

neil
@}--,--'--

coming soon to our house concert series here in media, pa
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www.sixthst.com

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 13:54:39 -0800
reply-to:     tara <tara8595@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tara <tara8595@yahoo.com>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
in-reply-to:  <nhbbkhmmkmnakplemkmhkecccpaa.neil@andineil.com>
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i would so totally make the cut.  at least i make
decisions based on analysis of fact, and not
knee-jerk reactions to someone trying to scare me
into voting for him.  which is what a lot of the
analysts are saying happened.

do you really not think the majority of americans
are stupid?  i think there is a generally
accepted definition...  or if you don't like that
word, let's use the word uneducated.  or maybe
ignorant.  take your pick.

and on iq before procreation?  that's a great
idea!!

i'm not excessively partisan.  just excessively
gay.

you have to remember that lots of us gay folks
are single-issue voters - just about...  i mean,
i don't think we'd vote for just anyone for gay
rights, but if they're basically okay on
everything else, this is an issue we have to vote
on.

for most people, the person voted into office
will not make didly's worth of difference in
their daily lives.  my parents are a perfect
example.  they're normal, run-of-the-mill working
people.  they have jobs and houses, and even a
tax cut won't really make that big difference to
them.

but let's look at us gay people.  if kerry was
elected, we'd have a fighting chance at getting
supreme court justices who would give us a shot
at finally getting married, or at least, a
separate but equal system so that we can protect
our partners, allow them to get social security
benefits if we die, share the burdens and
blessings of raising our children, and hundreds
of other rights straight people take for granted.

but bush is elected, which won't mean anything to
millions, but will mean a huge difference to me
if someone on the bench kicks the bucket.  it is
a set-back in years, of how much longer it will
take for the inevitability of gay rights to be
achieved.

this election has the capacity to affect our very
lifeblood.

so - perhaps stupid is the wrong word.  ignorant
is probably a better one, or maybe even
uninformed.  after all, were they better
informed, how could they do this to us, being
their friends, coworkers, and family members, if
they really knew what the consequences to us
were?

--- neil hunt <neil@andineil.com> wrote:

> tara said something like:
>
> >>i have to agree with vicki on the stupidity
> of the american people in
> general.<<
>
> becuase fully half the population is below
> average intelligence.
>
>
> >>i wish people had to take an iq test to
> vote.<<
>
> maybe we could make them take an iq test before
> they procreate too?
>
>
> >>if only smart people could vote, we'd have a
> different world.<<
>
> a scary, scary world. "smart" is arbitrary.
> what makes you so sure you'd
> make the cut?
>
> :)
>
> i think ryan covered my feelings about
> excessive partisanship rather well.
>
> neil
> @}--,--'--
>


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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 16:02:23 -0600
reply-to:     tgreen@uab.edu
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         todd green <tgreen@uab.edu>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
in-reply-to:  <20041103211920.41719.qmail@web60705.mail.yahoo.com>
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i have a phd but i didn't have it 4 years ago when i voted for bush. i mu=
st be=20
smart enough now to know better......giggles........giggles.....giggles.=20

all kidding aside, ginny is right, intelligence does make you vote for th=
e=20
right guy. is there really a right guy for everybody. no! your views and=20
personal situation should determine what's best for you. i know this has =
been=20
discussed on this list before. in any election(aside from one that 100=20
percent of the population vote unanimously, ie the one that never happens=
)=20
three things always happen,  someones candidate wins, someones loses, and=
=20
lots of people that don't have a candidate because they didn't vote are g=
oing=20
to gripe about it.

on wednesday 03 november 2004 03:19 pm, ginny newsom wrote:
> i am a republican.  i also have a high iq, high enough
> that it puts me in mensa, so i think your iq test for
> voting might not give you the desired outcome.  while
> i am certainly not a big bush fan, i did vote for him,
> as i like kerry even less. =20

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 14:08:48 -0800
reply-to:     "bruno, marie" <mbruno@cslanet.calstatela.edu>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "bruno, marie" <mbruno@cslanet.calstatela.edu>
subject:      re: broken hearts...broken dreams
mime-version: 1.0

>>clinton had his moments, but there were moral issues that i feel prevented
a lot >>of folks from supporting him.

he still won and for both terms that he ran. obviously not that many people
took issue with his "morality".


>>personally, i believe that a vote cast for any party other than democrat
or >>republican is just a wasted vote.  ralph probably got most of his votes
from >>dissatisfied democrats who just couldn't bring themselves to vote for
kerry.  take >>ralph out of the mix, and the whole thing might have turned
out differently.

i think voting your conscience is more important than voting for a winner,
especially when there is little difference between the two top candidates to
begin with.  no vote is wasted when you vote your conscience, ever.  the
idea that things would have turned out differently without nader running is
ridiculous.  i doubt that he garnered enough votes in any state to have
changed the outcome of the electoral vote distribution, especially since he
wasn't on the ballot in most states.

the person i wanted in the president's office the least is still there.  in
four years i get to change that, for better or worse.  it's not the best of
situations, but its not the end of the world either.  time to start making
plans for four years from now.

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 14:08:52 -0800
reply-to:     ginny newsom <vgnewsom@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         ginny newsom <vgnewsom@yahoo.com>
subject:      re: stupid voters?
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i guess that i see many issues that affect me
personally, not just gay marriage, abortion rights,
etc.  i think that people in general tend to focus on
those issues that are more personal to them.  for me,
the issues that are most important to me are the
economy, and social security, among others.  i think
those issues will have more of an effect on my overall
well-being than other issues.  we all have the right
to decide which issues are most important to us.
while i support gay marriage, and i also support a
woman's right to choose, i can't base my vote on those
issues alone.  kerry has said many times that he is
opposed to gay marriage, so doesn't that affect you
personally?  if it does, then how could anyone who is
gay vote for him?  my answer to that question, for my
own decision making, is that i have to look at all the
issues, not just a couple of them, then decide which
are most important to me.  i will never find a
candidate who doesn't support issues that negatively
affect me.  that doesn't mean that i shouldn't vote.
if you can honestly say that you could never vote for
a candidate who supports issues that negatively affect
you, then you have either never voted, or you have a
very short list of issues that you consider as
affecting you.  my list is very long.  one thing that
i would like to add to all of this is that i am very
disturbed that something like 25% of people said that
their votes were based on their moral views, and the
moral views of their chosen candidate.  it seems that
people on both sides of the fence base views on such
limited issues.

--- toye gillman <toye77@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> i'm not calling anyone "stupid."  and i don't
> question anyone's intelligence for voting for bush.
> ginny, i don't know you and don't know your sexual
> orientation, but this brings to mind yet another
> thought that i've had for a long time...gay
> republican is an oxymoron in my opinion.  i can't
> vote for a party that supports issues that
> negatively affect me, personally.
>
> toye
>
> ginny newsom <vgnewsom@yahoo.com> wrote:
> i am a republican. i also have a high iq, high
> enough
> that it puts me in mensa, so i think your iq test
> for
> voting might not give you the desired outcome. while
> i am certainly not a big bush fan, i did vote for
> him,
> as i like kerry even less. i base my vote in any
> election on how well the candidates' views mesh with
> my own.
>
> --
> please do not send long non-indigo girls-related
> forwards to the list.
> indigo girls faq and indigo girls mailing list faq:
> http://www.pixelopolis.com/ig
>


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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 14:20:17 -0800
reply-to:     ginny newsom <vgnewsom@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         ginny newsom <vgnewsom@yahoo.com>
subject:      re: nigc broken heart
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tara, i completely understand where you are coming
from, but it makes no sense to me how anyone can be a
one issue voter.  whether the issue is gay rights,
abortion rights, or the perceived morality of the
specific candidate, it's all one issue voting.  to me,
someone who votes for a candidate just because he
might be a little bit less anti-gay than the other
candidate is just as ignorant as the person who votes
for a candidate because he'll protect the sanctity of
marriage (which is a really silly phrase, given the
divorce rate.)  i vote on many issues.  gay rights are
an important issue to me, but don't even enter into my
decision until someone comes along who openly supports
gay issues and more than just a little bit better than
the other guy.  even then, that won't be the sole
factor in determining my vote.

--- tara <tara8595@yahoo.com> wrote:

> i would so totally make the cut.  at least i make
> decisions based on analysis of fact, and not
> knee-jerk reactions to someone trying to scare me
> into voting for him.  which is what a lot of the
> analysts are saying happened.
>
> do you really not think the majority of americans
> are stupid?  i think there is a generally
> accepted definition...  or if you don't like that
> word, let's use the word uneducated.  or maybe
> ignorant.  take your pick.
>
> and on iq before procreation?  that's a great
> idea!!
>
> i'm not excessively partisan.  just excessively
> gay.
>
> you have to remember that lots of us gay folks
> are single-issue voters - just about...  i mean,
> i don't think we'd vote for just anyone for gay
> rights, but if they're basically okay on
> everything else, this is an issue we have to vote
> on.
>
> for most people, the person voted into office
> will not make didly's worth of difference in
> their daily lives.  my parents are a perfect
> example.  they're normal, run-of-the-mill working
> people.  they have jobs and houses, and even a
> tax cut won't really make that big difference to
> them.
>
> but let's look at us gay people.  if kerry was
> elected, we'd have a fighting chance at getting
> supreme court justices who would give us a shot
> at finally getting married, or at least, a
> separate but equal system so that we can protect
> our partners, allow them to get social security
> benefits if we die, share the burdens and
> blessings of raising our children, and hundreds
> of other rights straight people take for granted.
>
> but bush is elected, which won't mean anything to
> millions, but will mean a huge difference to me
> if someone on the bench kicks the bucket.  it is
> a set-back in years, of how much longer it will
> take for the inevitability of gay rights to be
> achieved.
>
> this election has the capacity to affect our very
> lifeblood.
>
> so - perhaps stupid is the wrong word.  ignorant
> is probably a better one, or maybe even
> uninformed.  after all, were they better
> informed, how could they do this to us, being
> their friends, coworkers, and family members, if
> they really knew what the consequences to us
> were?
>
> --- neil hunt <neil@andineil.com> wrote:
>
> > tara said something like:
> >
> > >>i have to agree with vicki on the stupidity
> > of the american people in
> > general.<<
> >
> > becuase fully half the population is below
> > average intelligence.
> >
> >
> > >>i wish people had to take an iq test to
> > vote.<<
> >
> > maybe we could make them take an iq test before
> > they procreate too?
> >
> >
> > >>if only smart people could vote, we'd have a
> > different world.<<
> >
> > a scary, scary world. "smart" is arbitrary.
> > what makes you so sure you'd
> > make the cut?
> >
> > :)
> >
> > i think ryan covered my feelings about
> > excessive partisanship rather well.
> >
> > neil
> > @}--,--'--
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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=========================================================================
date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 18:58:30 -0500
reply-to:     bluewhale@excite.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         manivone sivilay <bluewhale@excite.com>
subject:      re: stupid voters?
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that just it.  bush, for the last 3.5 to 4 years, have not done anything for the good of the people of this country.  ex. spending without plans to pay for it, rob the surplus that was eared marked for social security, signed bills that he has no way of funding so he doesn't fund it, big huge government, nation building in iraq and afghanistan (iran and syria better watch out), etc.

these are not republican values yet ... it seem republican identified people attribute values they hold to this bush.

don't get me started on "morality."  how moral is it to cut health care to kids.  how moral is it to not give the people at the 'bottom' end of this rich society a hand?  how moral is it to allow the natural beauty of the national parks be destroyed inch by inch?

mani (who lives in the fact based reality)


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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 18:54:22 -0600
reply-to:     "e.s." <igfan19@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "e.s." <igfan19@hotmail.com>
subject:      justification for voting for bush
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i voted for kerry. and yes, like several voters i feel a sense of loss =
and betrayal. i just would like one question answered. could someone who =
voted for bush please justify why or how you could vote for a president =
who lied to the american people about iraq having weapons of mass =
destruction?=20

weapons of mass destruction don't equal the lose of lives: all lives =
lost in iraq.

it just doesn't add up to me.

my 2 cents,
e.s.

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 19:55:53 -0500
reply-to:     photomonk@earthlink.net
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "photomonk@earthlink.net" <photomonk@earthlink.net>
subject:      re: stupid voters?
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liberal, gay, democratic supporter of kerry here=2e=2e=2e

last night and most of the day, i've felt very upset about the election=2e=
  i
have myself wondered how anyone could vote for bush, if only for the reaso=
n
that he has lied so egregiously about iraq and the war=2e  i accept that
other people have an opposite view point, even though i disagree with it
vociferously :-)

i live in nh which has a completely republican congressional delegation=2e=
=20
i've decided that the only way i can deal with four more years of bush is
to step up my own invovlement with the issues=2e  i believe it is up to ea=
ch
citizen to truly hold their government officials accountable, no matter
what party affiliation or the citizen's views=2e  if someone is conservati=
ve
and has, say, ted kennedy as their senator, i would encourage them to do
their part to make sure kennedy knows about the conservative viewpoint=2e=20=

i'm going to try to watch the issues and the votes more closely and try to=

make my voice heard more often=2e  one senator has an office in the town
where i live=2e  maybe i will make myself a visitor a few times=2e  i thin=
k
oftentimes other viewpoints arent considered because they seem remote,
academic, not part of one's reality=2e  i'd compare it to how often people=

who have been homophobic change their tunes when they realize they know
someone who is gay=2e  maybe my attention to matters wont make a huge
difference, but like someone who doesnt vote, how can i complain about the=

process if i stay removed from it?

i read that bush said today in his speech that he acknowledged the vast
numbers of poeple who opposed him and that he would reach out to them=2e=20=

persnally, i dont believe it for a second=2e  he hasnt done it before=2e  =
now
that he doesnt have to worry about being re-elected, what's to motivate hi=
m
to reach out now?  nothing=2e  he believes he has been anointed from on hi=
gh=2e
if it is even possible, bush and his administration can only be "kept"
honest by hearing from people=2e  will they ignore differing viewponts?=20=

quite possibly=2e  but maybe a few minds can be changed and that's a start=
=2e=20

just my own two cents in trying to make sense of what is, to me, an
unpleasant situation=2e

amy p=2e

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - check your email from the web at
http://mail2web=2ecom/ =2e

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 20:14:24 -0500
reply-to:     elise loschiavo <eliselists@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         elise loschiavo <eliselists@hotmail.com>
subject:      4 available tickets for providence!!!
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hey everyone!!

i have a big problem.  i bought four tickets for the show in providence on
saturday night, and two people have bowed out --including our ride (they
"forgot"....you've been there, right?).  i have four tickets to sell.  i am
willing to split them up if need be...the show is general admission.  i am
in the boston area, or i can overnight the tickets somewhere else.

the show is at lupo's in providence, ri and the tickets are $30 each with
the service charge (or best offer if it comes down to that).

alternatively, if anyone from the boston area is driving down to the show,
and has some room, let me know!  i can try to sell the tickets there.

elise
eliselists@hotmail.com

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 19:18:21 -0700
reply-to:     garian <vigil@ucsu.colorado.edu>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         garian <vigil@ucsu.colorado.edu>
subject:      re: broken hearts...broken dreams
in-reply-to:  <20041103213756.23228.qmail@web81403.mail.yahoo.com>
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i would like to jump into this discussion of intelligence, etc. as it
pertains to politics.  as an academic i have some real issues with bush; i
don't think he's stupid whatsover, but i don't like that he was given an
ivy league education for both his ba and his mba through legacy admission
and squandered both those opportunities.  it doesn't say much for the idea
of rewards based on merit.

his lack of engagement in school reflects on his current lack of
engagement with learning, reading and research.  i don't have much respect
for a president who brags that he doesn't read the papers.  he thinks in
black and white, while education hopes to teach people to see the grey
areas everywhere.  i think single-issue voting is related to this.  for
example, abortion is not a stand alone issue.  abortion rates are tied to
the economy, mandatory drug sentencing, health insurance and education.
interestingly, abortion rates have been historically declining until bush
took office when there was a sharp increase.  this fact has not been
widely discussed however.

i don't like that it's somehow seen as courageous to hold stubbornly to a
view that has been proven false and unwise.  why is changing one's mind
based on reading and learning new information considered flip-flopping?
this idea of seeing the world in black and white is dangerous and will
continue to lead our country down a very fool-hardy path.

thanks for reading,
g.

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 21:19:29 est
reply-to:     rtsimantel@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         ryan simantel <rtsimantel@aol.com>
subject:      re: justification for voting for bush
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imagine this scenario:

"hey, i'm going to the store to get some eggs, as well as the  rest of the
stuff on the list"

"ok, bye!"

ten minutes later...

"hey, i'm back. darn it, the store didn't have any eggs, but i got the  other
stuff"

"liar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

yikes, ok, so that might be a stretch, but i don't necessarily pigeonhole
the first person as being a liar because they thought the store had eggs.  after
all, they got all the other goodies, didn't they? oh god, suddenly i  feel
the need for an omelet...

all in all, not everyone thinks bush is a liar. and before you start
scraping together piles of evidence that he is, just know that there are  dozens of
people out there who could scrap together just as much  evidence that he isn't.
i guess it always comes back to the fact that if  you tell certain people
what they want to believe, they will believe it... (yup,  that includes me)

which brings me to a valuable point: how can you know what the truth is?
well, when dealing with events that are so removed from our own personal
experience, it can be very difficult. after all, i'm still trying to figure out  why
ben and j.lo broke up (and, no, my subscription to us weekly isn't
helping...). so, i just look at the info at hand and go with my gut. what do i  feel.
what do you feel? i just don't feel that mr. bush has evil  intentions. i don't
feel that he wants to kill and lie and hurt the world ("join  the dark side,
luke!"). do you really think that is what he honestly wishes  for while he's
falling asleep at night?

ahh, i'm just glad the election is over and none of those darned political
ads will be coming on during desperate housewives...

ryan

>in a message dated 11/3/2004 4:55:24 pm pacific standard time,
igfan19@hotmail.com >writes:

>could someone who voted for bush please justify why or how you  could vote
for a >president who lied to the american people about iraq  having weapons of
mass >destruction?

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 19:34:08 -0700
reply-to:     garian <vigil@ucsu.colorado.edu>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         garian <vigil@ucsu.colorado.edu>
subject:      re: justification for voting for bush
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i think i would respond to your scenario by asserting that many feel that
bush went to the wrong store and bought a bunch of stuff we couldn't
afford.  that he wanted to go to that store in the first place and
perhaps wrote up a fake shopping list to justify going there, even though
the circulars from the newspaper clearly showed that the other store was
much cheaper and we really we needed to save our pennies.  bush certainly
thinks he was justified in going to the wrong store, but i would hope that
my housemate (or leader) would make democratic decisions, and not dictate
for me how my money is spent. now i'm broke, and don't have any eggs for
that omlete.


on wed, 3 nov 2004, ryan simantel wrote:

> imagine this scenario:
>
> "hey, i'm going to the store to get some eggs, as well as the  rest of the
> stuff on the list"
>
> "ok, bye!"
>
> ten minutes later...
>
> "hey, i'm back. darn it, the store didn't have any eggs, but i got the  other
> stuff"
>
> "liar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 18:47:47 -0800
reply-to:     melissa <melkitten@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         melissa <melkitten@yahoo.com>
subject:      one ticket available for nov 12 pa show
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keswick theater
glenside, pa

12 nov

the ticket is $40 - this is $36 and some change plus tm fees.

it is row a which is about 10 rows back. email me if interested.

southernmd4kerry kerry/edwards - a stronger america


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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 21:33:00 -0600
reply-to:     greg flamer <gflame@1000wadams.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         greg flamer <gflame@1000wadams.net>
subject:      re: broken hearts...broken dreams
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garian said:

> i don't like that it's somehow seen as courageous to hold stubbornly
> to a
> view that has been proven false and unwise.  why is changing one's mind
> based on reading and learning new information considered flip-flopping?
> this idea of seeing the world in black and white is dangerous and will
> continue to lead our country down a very fool-hardy path.

i think this is the crux of the issue with this election.  the
description above is the general mentality of folks who have a strong
religious belief.  each faith believes they have the truth or are
right.  try to argue with a devoutly religious person and they can just
say it's god's will and the argument (and any intellectual reasoning)
is over.  bush tapped into these people and has run his presidency the
same way.  this is the way it is (truth) and that's the end of the
debate.  i even respect him for admitting this flat out.  when asked
about his faith in the debates he didn't deny that it informed on his
policies and decision making as president.  he thinks he's being led by
a divine power and he truly believes it.  i say he won on his
convictions as much as i disagree with them.  the democrats
underestimated the amount of people in america who follow this train of
thought.

someone here said that we have to reach out to these very people with a
left wing evangelical approach.  i totally agree.  i hate that it has
to be done.  the british oust the politicians who try to bring religion
into politics.  but the sad reality is that faith and (supposed)
morality play a huge role for many americans.  separation of church and
state is not working here.  i mean we have god printed on all our
money.  we swear in to court on a bible.  the left has to reach out to
these people to have a fighting chance.  i could go on and on about how
ridiculous i feel about kowtowing to these folks who i personally feel
are weak in their need to be lead by religion as opposed to their own
self worth.  i certainly don't like dealing with people who think the
jury is still out on evolution and whether being gay is a choice.  but
that's today's usa.  the pendulum has swung right and we need to get it
swinging the other way.  in the meantime does anyone know the first
steps of dual citizenship in canada?  hang in there....greg

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 22:44:46 -0600
reply-to:     andrea crain <acrain@idea-inc.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         andrea crain <acrain@idea-inc.com>
subject:      about the eleven states
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my internet friend davejames posted this to another list:

there's some hate. there's probably a lot more who have no hate but
have an idea about what marriage is supposed to look like. there are
some who aren't ready and will come around in time.

how it works in this country: you introduce an idea about equality
that a certain population is not at all thrilled with, say school
integration, or say interracial marriage. you get massive push back.
status quo backlash. but the seed is planted. years and years go by,
and what was once considered radical slowly becomes a right. civil
rights move like frankenstein through the swamp. but it moves. and it
always moves towards what's right.

depression is not what you're feeling. what you are feeling is the eye
opening energy of realizing this is the natural ebb and flow of the
beginning. the beginning of what was not even under consideration a
generation ago.

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 23:29:57 -0500
reply-to:     tim baldwin <havanamoon@juno.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tim baldwin <havanamoon@juno.com>
subject:      re: broken hearts...broken dreams
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sadly, we can never underestimate the power of fear, ignorance, and
hypocrisy in our political environment.  for every one of us who are
appalled at the actions of this government (notice i avoided the
possessive,) there is some bible belt redneck who thinks dubya is the
greatest thing since corn liquor, since he speaks their language...

the thing that troubles me most is the thought that i am probably the
only member of my biological family who did not vote for bush...

for most of my 58 years, i have felt like heinlein's stranger in a
strange land, save for the wonderful community of music lovers and
artists with whom i have associated these past ten years.  i'm tired of
battling against fear and ignorance, but for the people i love, i'll
never stop as long as i draw breath...

peace,
tim

on wed, 3 nov 2004 19:18:21 -0700 garian <vigil@ucsu.colorado.edu>
writes:
>
> i don't like that it's somehow seen as courageous to hold stubbornly to
a
> view that has been proven false and unwise.  why is changing one's mind
> based on reading and learning new information considered flip-flopping?
> this idea of seeing the world in black and white is dangerous and will
> continue to lead our country down a very fool-hardy path.
>
> thanks for reading,
> g.

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date:         thu, 4 nov 2004 00:17:45 -0500
reply-to:     woodelldc@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         deb woodell <woodelldc@aol.com>
subject:      re: broken hearts...broken dreams
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greg wrote,
<i could go on and on about how ridiculous i feel about kowtowing to these folks who i personally feel are weak in their need to be lead by religion as opposed to their own
self worth.>
--
you misunderstand the idea of what the evangelical left religious base is. they are not "weak" or feel the need to be led around by religion. they (including me) are people who have strong religious beliefs, yet who subscribe to the same progressive, liberal positions as many who are not religious. i myself try to go to my uu church every sunday and to do my buddhist and taoist readings and meditations daily. religion does not equal weakness.
deb

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 21:36:36 -0800
reply-to:     diane wong <arle@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         diane wong <arle@hotmail.com>
subject:      just call me stupid
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i appreciate what you say.  but i voted for bush both times, and i'm happy
"w" won!  yay!

diane

----original message follows----
from: "digest <vicki stein>" <vickistein@aol.com>
reply-to: vickistein@aol.com
to: indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org
subject: re: nigc broken heart
date: wed, 3 nov 2004 14:58:39 est

sorry ryan.  i stand by my statement.  bush is an ineffective, greedy war
monger, corrupt beyond belief.   anyone who voted for him is stupid, and i
have
no respect for anyone who voted for bush in this election.  this country is
going to hell, thanks to the corrupt bush administration.  anyone who can't
figure that out is an embarrassment to america.

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date:         wed, 3 nov 2004 23:42:08 -0600
reply-to:     greg flamer <gflame@1000wadams.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         greg flamer <gflame@1000wadams.net>
subject:      re: broken hearts...broken dreams
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on nov 3, 2004, at 11:17 pm, deb woodell wrote:

> greg wrote,
> <i could go on and on about how ridiculous i feel about kowtowing to
> these folks who i personally feel are weak in their need to be lead by
> religion as opposed to their own
> self worth.>
>  --
>  you misunderstand the idea of what the evangelical left religious
> base is. they are not "weak" or feel the need to be led around by
> religion. they (including me) are people who have strong religious
> beliefs, yet who subscribe to the same progressive, liberal positions
> as many who are not religious. i myself try to go to my uu church
> every sunday and to do my buddhist and taoist readings and meditations
> daily. religion does not equal weakness.

i don't think the religious left are weak at all..quite the contrary.
i know plenty of religious folks who can separate their personal
religious beliefs from their political beliefs.  i do think people who
base all their decisions on the bible or a religion and have no ability
or willingness to reason or admit that another opinion might exist are
weak-minded.  you can believe in your religion yet still see that parts
of it might not fit into today's modern society.  you don't take every
word literally and can make educated assumptions about things.  the
term religious left implies that there's a degree of separation in
thinking and these are the folks we need.   we need the catholics who
somehow can handle supporting freedom of choice or gay marriage even
though the strictest of their religion say no to these things.  so you
are right that religion does not equal weakness but the religious folks
on the right (who i am referring to) show plenty of weakness through
their inability to consider any argument other than what god supposedly
says via the bible.   as my fellow illinoisian, barrack obama, said in
his debates with the very scary, alan keyes--i am  running for senator
of illinois not minister of illinois.  the left can separate.  the
right can't.  we need these left religious folk to get through to the
right....in my opinion.

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date:         thu, 4 nov 2004 07:48:34 est
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i also agree, i voted kerry. not just for the gay issue. what about  this
damn war? i don't get it. why did we attack iraq, and not bin laden? what  about
the bin laden tape that just happened to appear right before the  election? if
you guys haven't already, i do suggest watching fahrenheit  9/11. it looks to
me the bush family and the bin ladens are buddies. i am  very disappointed,
but that is the way the cookie crumbles i guess. i just can't  see a better
world with bush as president. to me bush is one big ball of  lies.
--ang


i voted for kerry. and yes, like several voters i feel a sense of loss and
betrayal. i just would like one question answered. could someone who voted for
bush please justify why or how you could vote for a president who lied to the
american people about iraq having weapons of mass destruction?

weapons  of mass destruction don't equal the lose of lives: all lives lost in
iraq.

it just doesn't add up to me.

my 2  cents,
e.s.

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date:         thu, 4 nov 2004 13:42:14 +0000
reply-to:     tom xxxxx <getula@hotmail.com>
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andrea,

thanks for posting this. i found it comforting. it was like a ray of sun
breaking through the clouds. yesterday was just about the worse day i've had
in months and this helped a little bit. thanks.

tom m.

"can you mr. bush light the sage"
--- tori amos, "indian summer"


>how it works in this country: you introduce an idea about equality
>that a certain population is not at all thrilled with, say school
>integration, or say interracial marriage. you get massive push back.
>status quo backlash. but the seed is planted. years and years go by,
>and what was once considered radical slowly becomes a right. civil
>rights move like frankenstein through the swamp. but it moves. and it
>always moves towards what's right.
>
>depression is not what you're feeling. what you are feeling is the eye
>opening energy of realizing this is the natural ebb and flow of the
>beginning. the beginning of what was not even under consideration a
>generation ago.
>
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date:         thu, 4 nov 2004 09:50:51 est
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to my comments re: his comments, greg wrote:

>  we need these left religious folk to get through to the
> right....in my opinion.
>
---
to that, i say, amen! i don't know how things got the way they are, but we
need the left side of the church aisle to rise up!
deb

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date:         thu, 4 nov 2004 07:18:22 -0800
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so, i thought maybe i would look up some
frederick douglass, for comfort.  i see so many
parallels between the evolution of the civil
rights movement, and our own fight.  i thought
i'd take one of his speeches and refashion it in
light of the battle that we face.  (please
understand that i do not mean to belittle or
twist the original meaning of douglass's words,
just borrow them.) just as civil rights for
african americans has evolved and won battles, so
shall rights for the glbt movement.  the
sentiments of frederick douglass about the
anti-slavery movement may be directly applied.
it's amazing how it fits.  and it is comforting.
i guess we just have to remember all things that
are valuable take time, are worth fighting for,
and are worth the resilience to keep our chins
up, and never give in.

--------------------------------------------

i have taken a sober view of the present gay
rights movement. i am sober, but not hopeless.
there is no denying, for it is everywhere
admitted, that the gay rights question is a great
moral and social question now before the american
people. a state of things has gradually been
developed, by which that question has become the
first thing in order. it has got to be met.
herein is my hope. the great idea of impartial
liberty is now fairly before the american people.
gay rights are no longer things to be prevented.
the time for prevention is past. this is great
gain. when the movement was younger and weaker--
it might have been silently put out of the way.
things are different now. it has grown too
abundant--its ramifications too extended--its
power too omnipotent, to be snuffed out by the
contingencies of infancy . . .

another source of congratulation is the fact
that, amid all the efforts made by the church,
the government, and the people at large, to stay
the onward progress of this movement, its course
has been onward, steady, unshaken, and unchecked
from the beginning. anit-gay sentiment has gained
victories, large and numerous; but never, as
against this movement-against a temporizing
policy, and against left-wing timidity, the gay
and lesbian oppressors have been victorious; but
against the spread and prevalence in the country,
of a spirit of resistance to its aggression, and
of sentiments favorable to its entire overthrow,
it has yet accomplished nothing. every measure
yet devised and executed, having for its object
the suppression of gay rights, has been as idle
and fruitless as pouring oil to extinguish fire.
a general rejoicing took place on the passage of
state amendments defining marriage as between a
man and a woman in the past election. those
measures are termed by both the great parties of
the country, as well as by leading statesmen, a
final settlement of the whole question of gay
marriage; but experience has laughed to scorn the
wisdom of anti-gay statesmen; and their final
settlement of agitation seems to be the final
revival, on a broader and grander scale than ever
before, of the question which they vainly attempt
to suppress forever.

the struck down federal marriage amendment has
especially been of positive service to the gay
rights movement. it has illustrated before all
the people the horrible character of
discrimination towards gays and lesbians, in
separating them from the rest of society and
trying to hold them down as separate and scorned.
it has revealed the arrogant and overbearing
spirit of the religious right towards the
liberal, open-minded; despising their
principles--shocking their feelings of humanity,
not only by bringing before them the unfairness
of anti-gay rhetoric, but by attempting to make
them parties to the crime. it has called into
exercise among the glbt community, a spirit of
resistance well calculated to surround them with
a bulwark of sympathy and respect hitherto
unknown. for people are always disposed to
respect and defend rights when the victims of
oppression stand up for themselves.

the heart of pity, which would melt in due time
over the brutal chastisements it sees inflicted
on the helpless, must be hardened. and this work
goes on every day in the year, and every hour in
the day.  the gay rights movement must go on in
its career of exactions. give, give, will be its
cry, 'till the timidity which concedes shall give
place to courage, which shall resist. such is the
voice of experience; such has been the past; such
is the present; and such will be that future,
which, so sure as man is man, will come. here i
leave the subject; and i leave off where i began,
consoling myself and congratulating the friends
of freedom upon the fact that the gay rights
cause is not a new thing under the sun; not some
delusion which a few setbacks may dispel. it has
appeared among us in all ages, and summoned its
advocates from all ranks. its foundations are
laid in the deepest convictions, and from
whatever soul the demon, fear, is expelled, there
will this cause take up its abode. old as the
everlasting hills; immovable; and certain as the
purposes of eternal power against all hindrances,
and against all delays, and despite all the
mutations of human instrumentalities, the gay
rights cause will triumph.


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date:         thu, 4 nov 2004 09:20:42 -0600
reply-to:     tgreen@uab.edu
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from:         todd green <tgreen@uab.edu>
subject:      nigc:  discount on sugarland tickets in birmingham - saturday,
              nov. 6
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sorry for the cross-post, but folks in bham may not even know that these =
guys=20
are playing here on saturday. i got this from workplay this=20
morning......-todd

----------  forwarded message  ----------

subject: discount on sugarland tickets
date: wed, 03 nov 2004 15:05:01 -0800
from: workplay <info@workplay.com>
to: todd green <tgreen@uab.edu>

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see sugarland for less
workplay theatre

(205) 380-4082

www.workplay.com

sugarland

w/ troy johnson

saturday, nov. 6 @ 9pm

listener appreciation special
-----------------------------
workplay and 102.5 the bull would like to thank their vips for their
continued support with a special discount for an upcoming show.

sugarland's tickets are $12 in advance and $14 day of show. because
this is a powerhouse show, we know you will want to bring a friend so
we are offering you the opportunity to buy one ticket and get one
free.

this discount can only be claimed by ordering over the phone or coming
in person to purchase tickets. be sure to mention this e-mail to get
your free ticket. hurry because we can only offer this discount while
our ticket supply lasts.

sugarland, made up of 3 powerful singer songwriters from atlanta, has
a staggering resume of talent. jennifer nettles, kristen hall and
kristian bush make up this universal records  country-pop supergroup.
their new cd "premium quality tunes" is exploding around the country.
cmt sums it up best in 3 words- "they kick ass".

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date:         thu, 4 nov 2004 09:23:59 -0600
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ditto

>
> the thing that troubles me most is the thought that i am probably the
> only member of my biological family who did not vote for bush...
>

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date:         thu, 4 nov 2004 08:47:16 -0700
reply-to:     garian <vigil@ucsu.colorado.edu>
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subject:      op-ed the new york times, garry wills
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many will find this piece relevant to the discussion on this list...

****************************************************
the day the enlightenment went out
by garry wills
published: november 4, 2004

this election confirms the brilliance of karl rove as
a political strategist. he calculated that the
religious conservatives, if they could be turned out,
would be the deciding factor. the success of the plan
was registered not only in the presidential results
but also in all 11 of the state votes to ban same-sex
marriage. mr. rove understands what surveys have
shown, that many more americans believe in the virgin
birth than in darwin's theory of evolution.

this might be called bryan's revenge for the scopes
trial of 1925, in which william jennings bryan's
fundamentalist assault on the concept of evolution was
discredited. disillusionment with that decision led
many evangelicals to withdraw from direct engagement
in politics. but they came roaring back into the arena
out of anger at other court decisions - on prayer in
school, abortion, protection of the flag and, now, gay
marriage. mr. rove felt that the appeal to this large
bloc was worth getting president bush to endorse a
constitutional amendment banning gay marriage (though
he had opposed it earlier).

the results bring to mind a visit the dalai lama made
to chicago not long ago. i was one of the people
deputized to ask him questions on the stage at the
field museum. he met with the interrogators beforehand
and asked us to give him challenging questions, since
he is too often greeted with deference or flattery.

the only one i could think of was: "if you could
return to your country, what would you do to change
it?" he said that he would disestablish his religion,
since "america is the proper model." i later asked him
if a pluralist society were possible without the
enlightenment. "ah," he said. "that's the problem." he
seemed to envy america its enlightenment heritage.

which raises the question: can a people that believes
more fervently in the virgin birth than in evolution
still be called an enlightened nation?

america, the first real democracy in history, was a
product of enlightenment values - critical
intelligence, tolerance, respect for evidence, a
regard for the secular sciences. though the founders
differed on many things, they shared these values of
what was then modernity. they addressed "a candid
world," as they wrote in the declaration of
independence, out of "a decent respect for the
opinions of mankind." respect for evidence seems not
to pertain any more, when a poll taken just before the
elections showed that 75 percent of mr. bush's
supporters believe iraq either worked closely with al
qaeda or was directly involved in the attacks of 9/11.

the secular states of modern europe do not understand
the fundamentalism of the american electorate. it is
not what they had experienced from this country in the
past. in fact, we now resemble those nations less than
we do our putative enemies.

where else do we find fundamentalist zeal, a rage at
secularity, religious intolerance, fear of and hatred
for modernity? not in france or britain or germany or
italy or spain. we find it in the muslim world, in al
qaeda, in saddam hussein's sunni loyalists. americans
wonder that the rest of the world thinks us so
dangerous, so single-minded, so impervious to
international appeals. they fear jihad, no matter
whose zeal is being expressed.

it is often observed that enemies come to resemble
each other. we torture the torturers, we call our god
better than theirs - as one american general put it,
in words that the president has not repudiated.

president bush promised in 2000 that he would lead a
humble country, be a uniter not a divider, that he
would make conservatism compassionate. he did not need
to make such false promises this time. he was
re-elected precisely by being a divider, pitting the
reddest aspects of the red states against the blue
nearly half of the nation. in this, he is very far
from ronald reagan, who was amiably and ecumenically
pious. he could address more secular audiences, here
and abroad, with real respect.

in his victory speech yesterday, president bush
indicated that he would "reach out to the whole
nation," including those who voted for john kerry. but
even if he wanted to be more conciliatory now, the
constituency to which he owes his victory is not a
yielding one. he must give them what they want on
things like judicial appointments. his helpers are
also his keepers.

the moral zealots will, i predict, give some cause for
dismay even to nonfundamentalist republicans. jihads
are scary things. it is not too early to start
yearning back toward the enlightenment.

garry wills, an adjunct professor of history at
northwestern university, is the author of "st.
augustine's conversion."

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date:         thu, 4 nov 2004 08:11:11 -0800
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subject:      nigc - eleven states
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i'm sorry - does anyone have handy the names of states
that passed the anti-marriage legislation for same
-sex couples?  i can only think of two . . . .

thanks, elaine


ohio
georgia
??????

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date:         thu, 4 nov 2004 16:34:43 +0000
reply-to:     tom xxxxx <getula@hotmail.com>
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oregon
missouri and mississippi, i think. not sure on those two

tom m.

"can you mr. bush light the sage"
--- tori amos, "indian summer"


>from: marysnshne <marysnshne@yahoo.com>
>reply-to: marysnshne <marysnshne@yahoo.com>
>to: indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org
>subject: nigc - eleven states
>date: thu, 4 nov 2004 08:11:11 -0800
>
>i'm sorry - does anyone have handy the names of states
>that passed the anti-marriage legislation for same
>-sex couples?  i can only think of two . . . .
>
>thanks, elaine
>
>
>ohio
>georgia
>??????
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>do you yahoo!?
>check out the new yahoo! front page.
>www.yahoo.com
>
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date:         thu, 4 nov 2004 09:42:08 -0700
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arkansas
georgia
kentucky
michigan
mississippi
montana
north dakota
ohio
oklahoma
oregon
utah

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date:         thu, 4 nov 2004 12:20:58 -0500
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> ****************************************************
> the day the enlightenment went out
> by garry wills
> published: november 4, 2004

...
> shown, that many more americans believe in the virgin birth than in darwin's theory of
evolution.
...
> garry wills, an adjunct professor of history at northwestern university, is the author
of "st.  augustine's conversion."
...

truly, totally bizarre - and he repeats it, so it's no chance error of wording. the
"virgin birth" is a claim about a single miraculous birth around about 2010 years ago.
it's not a theory of the origin of life.  there's no particular dissonance between those
two items, imo.  i happen to believe in both of them.  that is the classic "enlightenment"
position, as i understand it.

it's akin to saying that more americans believe in faith healing than in wave-particle
duality - which is also likely true, and also not a dichotomy, and not revealing of anything.

this guy is a professor of history, a writer on st. augustine, and in the new york
bleeping times he can't make a sound figure of speech?!?!  or worse, confuses young-earth
creationism with the virgin birth of jesus.  and the nyt printed it!

(the virgin birth should not be confused with the immaculate conception, which is a
doctrine about the conception of mary, mother of jesus.)

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http://www.pixelopolis.com/ig
=========================================================================
date:         thu, 4 nov 2004 17:21:19 +0000
reply-to:     jezzie98@comcast.net
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jezzie98@comcast.net
subject:      re: broken hearts...broken dreams
x-to:         toye gillman <toye77@sbcglobal.net>

edwards would have made a better candidate? not based on you reasonings at the beginning of your post. if anyone remembers the primaries, edwards was the only candidate who openly admitted he did not support gay marriage or civil unions, and that is why he didn't get my vote. so when kerry announced that was going to be his running mate, it was decision time. someone said that "no one knew the sacrifice they made to cast their vote" i think everyone had to sacrifice something, most people a piece of their heart, and the retrospectively foolish notion that most citizens of this country are capable of thinking of anything, but themselves. i can not understand, if you have lived in country in the past 4 years, ( pardon the harshness) what the fuck, you could possibly be thinking voting for gw? i am sick to my stomach that this has happened. if you are an "economist" from an economical stand point gw has destroyed the country, he inherited a "surplus" for the first time in our co
untry's history, and in less four years squandered it to create a 275 trillion dollar deficit....long story short economically he failed us! if you are a believer in freedom, and the constitution of the united states, then you should be outraged at the censorship, and the open discrimination of gays, not to be able to evoke the right to marry, that legislators are clambering around to change laws that were made over 200 years ago, by our founding fathers and are still more progressive thinkers then that of the entire bush administration, if you believe in the freedom of religion, then like it or not
we are all practicing,conservative, texass, born again christians! that is the rule book used to dictate all of our lives, so in that instance of freedom (which we all know is not free) gw failed us, again! if you are a strong supporter of the "war on terror" well, very briefly $260 billion dollars, and over 1,000 american soldiers dead, one question where is osama bin laden? he looked pretty friggin healthy in his last video taped message? the war on terror, yet again gw failed us! so for every person who voted for gw this election congratulations you have helped in the undoing of every progressive step made in the 20th century, and i had to snicker over the post about the first african american president, are you fucking serious? yeah, the bible belt states are really going to go for that. wake up, people, and as far as vicki's statements about all people who voted for bush are stupid(personally, i believe she is on to something) well maybe ignorant is a better term. but ev
eryone who helped this happen, please rest much easier that gay couples in 11 states will not be able to legalize their unions, but continue to live in "sin", that over 66,000 jobs in new hampshire alone have been lost in the past 3 years, and over 35,000 people have had to file for bankruptcy,
28, 000 people live without health care ( 1/3 of which are children) but the dykes & fags have been quieted, amen! i am starting to hum a different tune......."oh, canada, oh canada, la la la la la la la la!"

janet in nh
transplant from ma


> i agree about the right voting out of fear.  no gay marriage!  that would
> jeopardize the american family.  yes, wouldn't it be horrible if america let
> those two guys that live down the street, who have been together for 15 years,
> have the right to be legally married?
>
> when you think about how archaic it is to absolutely deprive american people of
> their rights are you not apalled?  this is what the civil rights movement was
> all about.  those who were considered less than human--not worthy of the right
> to drink out of the same water fountains as others, ride in the front of the
> bus, vote--they fought for what they wanted and some even gave their lives.
> today, they are afforded all the privileges they rightfully deserve--and they
> can marry!!!  why are we the only ones who can be legally persecuted?  is this
> not worth fighting for?  if you don't care about marriage or the very idea of us
> becoming second class citizens, how about this?  do you all realize the monetary
> issues at hand.  for example, if i spend 25 years with a womyn, going through
> all the ups and downs of an enduring relationship, putting up with each other
> through thick and thin, do i not deserve the have her pension, or her mine?  no,
> we are just out of luck (and out of $$)!
>
> personally, i believe that a vote cast for any party other than democrat or
> republican is just a wasted vote.  ralph probably got most of his votes from
> dissatisfied democrats who just couldn't bring themselves to vote for kerry.
> take ralph out of the mix, and the whole thing might have turned out
> differently.  it is sad, but true.  a collegue of mine actually went to the
> polls and voted for every other position and issue except president.  why?  he
> could not bring himself to cast a vote for any of the candidates!  so, his was
> wasted also, because of the piss poor dem representation!
>
> the democrats have not had a candidate that they could rally around since
> carter, in my opinion.  clinton had his moments, but there were moral issues
> that i feel prevented a lot of folks from supporting him.  i don't know how or
> who decides who the front runners in a party are, but it needs to change.
>
> i do not really like bush or kerry.  i think edwards would have made a better
> candidate for president than kerry.  but when faced with the challenge of having
> two candidates that aren't worth a damn, i will always vote for the lesser of
> the two evils--and imo, this time that was kerry.  hell, at least it would have
> been a change.  we have been going backwards since bush was first elected.
>
> i wanted to paint on the back of my car with shoe polish today, "the american
> people have just voted in another viet nam!!"
>
> my gf is career navy and eligible to retire right now, but because of what is
> going on in iraq, they won't let her retire now.  i was looking forward to her
> being able to retire when kerry was elected and got our people out of there.
> bush doesn't give a damn about anyone or anything that does not affect him
> personally or affect his family.  he thanks my gf for her many years of service
> by preventing her from retiring.  she was in dessert storm and gave many
> years--as did many military personnel.  i think they deserve better!
>
> here, here on your comment about obama.  i wish we had him in missouri!
>
> ok, enough rambling!
>
> my 2 cents,
> toye
>
> todd green wrote:
> . i believe there are a vast number of people that don't align themselves with a
> party, i am a good example...i thought gore was a lousy candidate 4 years
> ago...i think the candidate really does matter... i actually felt nader was the
> best of the 3...i knew nader didn't stand a chance.  i think this and an
> indifference to kerry, and the damn gay marrage bill in ohio really hurt
> him...as for who should have been promoted, beats me. around the time of the
> primaries, the democratic party looked in complete disarray. clark, no, dean,
> no, kerry. surely with 4 years preparation they could have found a better
> guy. now if barack obama would have been the man, i might have even
> volunteered for his campaign.
>
> --
> please do not send long non-indigo girls-related forwards to the list.
> indigo girls faq and indigo girls mailing list faq:
> http://www.pixelopolis.com/ig

--
do not quote other peoples' entire messages when replying to the list.
indigo girls faq and indigo girls mailing list faq:
http://www.pixelopolis.com/ig
=========================================================================
date:         thu, 4 nov 2004 15:26:56 -0500
reply-to:     rainnriver@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "<sarah t. rosenblum>" <rainnriver@aol.com>
subject:      it begins. tell me there is no difference between bush and
              kerry...
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

>president bush has announced his plan to select dr. w. david hager
>to
>head up the food and drug administration's (fda) reproductive health
>drugs advisory
>committee. the committee has not met for more than two years, during
>whichtime its charter lapsed. as a result, the bush administration
>is tasked with filling all eleven positions with new members. this
>position does not require congressional approval. the fda's
>reproductive health drugs advisory committee makes crucial decisions
>on matters relating to drugs used in the practice of
>obstetrics, gynecology and related specialties, including hormone
>therapy,contraception, treatment for infertility, and medical
>alternatives to surgicalprocedures for sterilization and pregnancy
>termination. dr. hager is the the author of "as jesus cared for
>women: restoring women then and now." the book blends biblical
>accounts of christ healing women with case studies from hager's
>practice. his views of reproductive health care are far outside the
>mainstream for reproductive technology. dr. hager is a practicing
>ob/gyn who describes himself as "pro-life"and refuses to
>prescribe contraceptives to unmarried women. in the book dr. hager
>wrote with his wife, entitled "stress and the woman's body,"
he
>suggests that women who suffer from
>premenstrual syndrome should seek help from reading the bible and
>praying. asan editor and contributing author of "the reproduction
>revolution: a christian
>appraisal of sexuality reproductive technologies and the family,"
>dr. hager appears to have endorsed the medically inaccurate
>assertion that the
>common birth control pill is an abortifacient. we are concerned that
>dr. hager's
>strong religious beliefs may color his assessment of technologies
>that are
>necessary to protect women's lives or to preserve and promote
>women's
>health. hager's track record of using religious beliefs to guide his
>medical
>decision-making makes him a dangerous and inappropriate candidate to
>serve as chair of this committee. critical drug public policy and
>research must not be
>held hostage by antiabortion politics. members of this important
>panel
>should be appointed on the basis of science and medicine, rather
>than politics andreligion. american women deserve no less.there is
>something you can do. below is a statement to be sent to the
>white house, opposing the placement of hager.
>(1) please copy and paste (don't forward) the entire email into a
>fresh email;then sign your name below. after you sign, send this to
>every person
>you know who is concerned about women's rights.
>(2) every 10th person who signs the list (i.e., #10, #20, #30, etc.)
>-
>please forward the entire e-mail to president@whitehouse.gov
>we oppose the appointment of dr. w. david hager to the fda
>reproductive health drugs advisory committee. mixing religion and
>medicine is unacceptable
>in a policy-making position. using the fda to promote a political
>agenda is inappropriate and seriously threatens women's health.
>members of this important panel should be appointed on the basis of
>science and medicine, rather than politics and religion. american
>women deserve no less.
>1. susan tannenbaum (owings mills,maryland)
>2. susan levine (silver spring,md)
>3. audrey funk (henderson,nv)
>4. susan lowe shlisky (las vegas,nv)
>5. michelle straub-wilensky (los angeles,ca)
>6. patricia phelan (san francisco,ca)
>7. victo ria einhorn(san anselmo, ca)
>8. brad einhorn (brooklyn,ny)
>9. bethany macmillan (brooklyn,ny)
>10. amy russell (louisville,kentucky)
>11. beverly d. moore (louisville,kentucky)
>12. connie o. byrne (kannapolis,north carolina)
>13. janet c. haas (charlotte,north carolina)
>14. heather vrana (charlotte,nc)
>15. clare m. evans (newport,va)
>16. kathy chadwick
>17. jim chadwick
>18. claire grimm chadwick
>19. lindsay addison (naples,fl)
>20. peggy addison (naples,fl)
>21. david addison (naples,fl)
>22. howard schumsky (orlando,fl)
>23. kristie born (orlando,fl)
>24. paul
>bo
>yd (atlantic highlands,nj)
>25. lois jensen (nyc, ny)
>26. catherine rubenstein (belvedere, ca)
>27. anne rubenstein (belvedere, ca)
>28. ! dirk rubenstein (belvedere, ca)
>29. barbara k. westover (oakland, ca)
>30. sharon bjornson (oakland, ca)
>31. rabbi sue levi elwell (philadelphia, pa)
>32. hana elwell (brooklyn, ny)
>33. jen song (brooklyn, ny)
>34. janet lo (new york, ny)
>35. emily horowitz (new york, ny)
>36. daniel horowitz (new york, ny)
>37. josh hyman (new york, ny)
>38. mona goldsmith (plainview, ny)
>9. kate striano (newtown, ct)
>40. elissa gellis ( newtown, ct)
>41. diane thompson (sandy hook, ct)
>42. linda parsloe (sandy hook, ct)
>43. judy juracek (darien, ct)
>44. deborah meisels (city island, ny)
>45. p. briggs saroch (greenfield, ma)
>46. diane fisher-katz (northampton, ma)
>47. kirsten cirincione (florence, ma)
>48. jane lynch (flo! rence, ma)
>49. kathleen kennedy (santa barbara, ca)
>gt; 50. leslie palmer (san antonio, tx)
>51. julie toland, middletown, ri
>52. josie merck,
>( co
>s cob, ct)
>53. elizabeth o'neill (boston, ma)
>54. joan o'neill (traverse city, mi)
>55. barbara becker (concord, ca)
>56. ken bruckmeier (oakland,ca)
>57. margret elson (oakland, ca)
>58, marsha sherman (portland, or)
>59. marinell eva (santa rosa, ca)
>60. sharon oman (petaluma, ca)
>61. adrienne davis (santa rosa, ca)
>62. barbara carlson (santa rosa, ca)
>63. karen grace-kaho (sacramento, ca)
>64. mary beth love (san francisco, ca)
>65. ruth finnerty (oakland, ca)
>66. rosalie holtz
>67. kay corlett (albany, ca)
>68. connie barnes (oakley, ca)
>69. donna ventura (brentwood, ca)
>70. nancy herman (lafayette,ca)
>71. shirley chang (berkeley, ca)
>72. nola chavez (el cerrito, ca)
>73. elspeth wells (clayton, ca)
>74. phyllis berger (los angeles, ca)
>75. joan barnett (boston, ma.)
>76. karen danaher(los angeles,ca
>77. susan rice (new york, ny)
>78. alan wagner ( new york, ny)
>79. jane altman (new york, ny)
>80. sheila friedman (yardley, pa)
>81. susan cooper (brookfield, ct)
>82. elissa fisher (p
>leasa
>ntville, ny)
>83. angela usobiaga (pleasantville, ny)
>84. katherine procopio goodman (katonah, ny)
>85. jessica white (dobbs ferry, ny)
>86. danielle bottari (new york, ny)
>87. carolyn kleiman (brooklyn, ny)
>88. nicole galluccio ( brooklyn, ny)
>89. krista caiola (brooklyn, ny)
>90. brooke murdock (brooklyn, ny)
>91. erin woo! dward, (montclair, nj)
>92. kaelan kelly-sordelet (montclair, nj )
>93. kathleen kelly
>94. pauline miller (new york, ny)
>95. carolyn fink (new york, ny)
>96. leigh trucks (westport, ct)
>97. sasha f. kaye (new york, ny)
>98. sarah a. moran (new york, ny)
>99. eleanor connolly
>100. elizabeth hannaford
>101. joan nolan
>102. julie johns (minneapolis, mn)
>103. jeanne j, cassin (groton, ma)
>104. frances e. costigan (seattle, wa)
>105. nancy l. danoff (seattle, wa)
>106. eve rumpf-sternberg (seattle, wa)
>107. laurie a. bent (weston, ma)
>108. dea fa angiolillo (dedham, ma)
>109. cheryl k. warner (brookline, ma)
>110. shelley lipschultz (brookline, ma)
>111. jane b. brown
>(brook
>line, ma)
>112. alison donta (amherst, ma)
>113. ann benner (bethesda, md)
>114. amy raymond (amsterdam, the netherlands)
>115. kevin cregan(amsterdam, the netherlands)
>116. tessa chandler (new york, ny)
>117. carol rosenstiel (birmingham, al)
>118.judy jenks (atlanta, ga)
>119. donna becker (atlanta, ga)
>120. nan becker (stillwater, nj)
>121. margot paddock (pittsfield, ma)
>122. helen goddard ( south dartmouth, ma )
>123. kimberly goddard (millis, ma)
>124.suzanne a gebelein (walpole, ma)
>125. anna g. keegan (lunenburg, ma)
>126. patricia harris, md (asbury, nj)
>128. polly harris (charlotte vt)
>129. tony medeiros (mansfield, ma)
>130. ivan wolfson, md (riverside, ri)
>131. diane minasian, md (riverside, ri)
>132. katherine halsey (ojai, ca)
>133. brooke halsey (cambridge, ma)
>134. liza williams (hanover, nh)
>135. ellen weaver (waterville, me)
>136. lauren smith (cohasset, ma)
>137. heather devito (arlington, ma)
>138. caroline voyles (north oaks, mn)
>139. sree atluru (shoreview, mn)
>14
>0. rose
>maier (milwaukee, wi)
>141. john keane (milwuakee, wi)
>142. zoe cohen (milwaukee, wi)
>

--
do not quote other peoples' entire messages when replying to the list.
indigo girls faq and indigo girls mailing list faq:
http://www.pixelopolis.com/ig
=========================================================================
date:         thu, 4 nov 2004 15:33:29 -0500
reply-to:     "heckler, victoria" <victoria.heckler@ppfa.org>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "heckler, victoria" <victoria.heckler@ppfa.org>
subject:      re: it begins. tell me there is no difference between bush and
              kerry...
x-to:         rainnriver@aol.com
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

this email has been floating around for four years.  david hager was
already appointed to the fda (not the head, never was supposed to be)
and there was never anything we could do about it because bush can just
appoint folks arbitrarily to posts like these. it is and always was a
fait de comple. =20

victoria

-----original message-----
from: indigo girls mailing list [mailto:indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org]
on behalf of <sarah t. rosenblum>
sent: thursday, november 04, 2004 3:27 pm
to: indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org
subject: it begins. tell me there is no difference between bush and
kerry...


>president bush has announced his plan to select dr. w. david hager to
>head up the food and drug administration's (fda) reproductive health
>drugs advisory
>committee. the committee has not met for more than two years, during
>whichtime its charter lapsed. as a result, the bush administration
>is tasked with filling all eleven positions with new members. this
>position does not require congressional approval. the fda's
>reproductive health drugs advisory committee makes crucial decisions
>on matters relating to drugs used in the practice of
>obstetrics, gynecology and related specialties, including hormone
>therapy,contraception, treatment for infertility, and medical
>alternatives to surgicalprocedures for sterilization and pregnancy
>termination. dr. hager is the the author of "as jesus cared for
>women: restoring women then and now." the book blends biblical
>accounts of christ healing women with case studies from hager's
>practice. his views of reproductive health care are far outside the
>mainstream for reproductive technology. dr. hager is a practicing
>ob/gyn who describes himself as "pro-life"and refuses to
>prescribe contraceptives to unmarried women. in the book dr. hager
>wrote with his wife, entitled "stress and the woman's body,"
he
>suggests that women who suffer from
>premenstrual syndrome should seek help from reading the bible and=20
>praying. asan editor and contributing author of "the reproduction
>revolution: a christian
>appraisal of sexuality reproductive technologies and the family,"=20
>dr. hager appears to have endorsed the medically inaccurate assertion=20
>that the common birth control pill is an abortifacient. we are=20
>concerned that dr. hager's
>strong religious beliefs may color his assessment of technologies
>that are
>necessary to protect women's lives or to preserve and promote
>women's
>health. hager's track record of using religious beliefs to guide his
>medical
>decision-making makes him a dangerous and inappropriate candidate to
>serve as chair of this committee. critical drug public policy and
>research must not be
>held hostage by antiabortion politics. members of this important
>panel
>should be appointed on the basis of science and medicine, rather
>than politics andreligion. american women deserve no less.there is
>something you can do. below is a statement to be sent to the
>white house, opposing the placement of hager.
>(1) please copy and paste (don't forward) the entire email into a
>fresh email;then sign your name below. after you sign, send this to
>every person
>you know who is concerned about women's rights.
>(2) every 10th person who signs the list (i.e., #10, #20, #30, etc.)
>-
>please forward the entire e-mail to president@whitehouse.gov
>we oppose the appointment of dr. w. david hager to the fda
>reproductive health drugs advisory committee. mixing religion and
>medicine is unacceptable
>in a policy-making position. using the fda to promote a political
>agenda is inappropriate and seriously threatens women's health.
>members of this important panel should be appointed on the basis of
>science and medicine, rather than politics and religion. american
>women deserve no less.
>1. susan tannenbaum (owings mills,maryland)
>2. susan levine (silver spring,md)
>3. audrey funk (henderson,nv)
>4. susan lowe shlisky (las vegas,nv)
>5. michelle straub-wilensky (los angeles,ca)
>6. patricia phelan (san francisco,ca)
>7. victo ria einhorn(san anselmo, ca)
>8. brad einhorn (brooklyn,ny)
>9. bethany macmillan (brooklyn,ny)
>10. amy russell (louisville,kentucky)
>11. beverly d. moore (louisville,kentucky)
>12. connie o. byrne (kannapolis,north carolina)
>13. janet c. haas (charlotte,north carolina)
>14. heather vrana (charlotte,nc)
>15. clare m. evans (newport,va)
>16. kathy chadwick
>17. jim chadwick
>18. claire grimm chadwick
>19. lindsay addison (naples,fl)
>20. peggy addison (naples,fl)
>21. david addison (naples,fl)
>22. howard schumsky (orlando,fl)
>23. kristie born (orlando,fl)
>24. paul
>bo
>yd (atlantic highlands,nj)
>25. lois jensen (nyc, ny)
>26. catherine rubenstein (belvedere, ca)
>27. anne rubenstein (belvedere, ca)
>28. ! dirk rubenstein (belvedere, ca)
>29. barbara k. westover (oakland, ca)
>30. sharon bjornson (oakland, ca)
>31. rabbi sue levi elwell (philadelphia, pa)
>32. hana elwell (brooklyn, ny)
>33. jen song (brooklyn, ny)
>34. janet lo (new york, ny)
>35. emily horowitz (new york, ny)
>36. daniel horowitz (new york, ny)
>37. josh hyman (new york, ny)
>38. mona goldsmith (plainview, ny)
>9. kate striano (newtown, ct)
>40. elissa gellis ( newtown, ct)
>41. diane thompson (sandy hook, ct)
>42. linda parsloe (sandy hook, ct)
>43. judy juracek (darien, ct)
>44. deborah meisels (city island, ny)
>45. p. briggs saroch (greenfield, ma)
>46. diane fisher-katz (northampton, ma)
>47. kirsten cirincione (florence, ma)
>48. jane lynch (flo! rence, ma)
>49. kathleen kennedy (santa barbara, ca)
>gt; 50. leslie palmer (san antonio, tx)
>51. julie toland, middletown, ri
>52. josie merck,
>( co
>s cob, ct)
>53. elizabeth o'neill (boston, ma)
>54. joan o'neill (traverse city, mi)
>55. barbara becker (concord, ca)
>56. ken bruckmeier (oakland,ca)
>57. margret elson (oakland, ca)
>58, marsha sherman (portland, or)
>59. marinell eva (santa rosa, ca)
>60. sharon oman (petaluma, ca)
>61. adrienne davis (santa rosa, ca)
>62. barbara carlson (santa rosa, ca)
>63. karen grace-kaho (sacramento, ca)
>64. mary beth love (san francisco, ca)
>65. ruth finnerty (oakland, ca)
>66. rosalie holtz
>67. kay corlett (albany, ca)
>68. connie barnes (oakley, ca)
>69. donna ventura (brentwood, ca)
>70. nancy herman (lafayette,ca)
>71. shirley chang (berkeley, ca)
>72. nola chavez (el cerrito, ca)
>73. elspeth wells (clayton, ca)
>74. phyllis berger (los angeles, ca)
>75. joan barnett (boston, ma.)
>76. karen danaher(los angeles,ca
>77. susan rice (new york, ny)
>78. alan wagner ( new york, ny)
>79. jane altman (new york, ny)
>80. sheila friedman (yardley, pa)
>81. susan cooper (brookfield, ct)
>82. elissa fisher (p
>leasa
>ntville, ny)
>83. angela usobiaga (pleasantville, ny)
>84. katherine procopio goodman (katonah, ny)
>85. jessica white (dobbs ferry, ny)
>86. danielle bottari (new york, ny)
>87. carolyn kleiman (brooklyn, ny)
>88. nicole galluccio ( brooklyn, ny)
>89. krista caiola (brooklyn, ny)
>90. brooke murdock (brooklyn, ny)
>91. erin woo! dward, (montclair, nj)
>92. kaelan kelly-sordelet (montclair, nj )
>93. kathleen kelly
>94. pauline miller (new york, ny)
>95. carolyn fink (new york, ny)
>96. leigh trucks (westport, ct)
>97. sasha f. kaye (new york, ny)
>98. sarah a. moran (new york, ny)
>99. eleanor connolly
>100. elizabeth hannaford
>101. joan nolan
>102. julie johns (minneapolis, mn)
>103. jeanne j, cassin (groton, ma)
>104. frances e. costigan (seattle, wa)
>105. nancy l. danoff (seattle, wa)
>106. eve rumpf-sternberg (seattle, wa)
>107. laurie a. bent (weston, ma)
>108. dea fa angiolillo (dedham, ma)
>109. cheryl k. warner (brookline, ma)
>110. shelley lipschultz (brookline, ma)
>111. jane b. brown
>(brook
>line, ma)
>112. alison donta (amherst, ma)
>113. ann benner (bethesda, md)
>114. amy raymond (amsterdam, the netherlands)
>115. kevin cregan(amsterdam, the netherlands)
>116. tessa chandler (new york, ny)
>117. carol rosenstiel (birmingham, al)
>118.judy jenks (atlanta, ga)
>119. donna becker (atlanta, ga)
>120. nan becker (stillwater, nj)
>121. margot paddock (pittsfield, ma)
>122. helen goddard ( south dartmouth, ma )
>123. kimberly goddard (millis, ma)
>124.suzanne a gebelein (walpole, ma)
>125. anna g. keegan (lunenburg, ma)
>126. patricia harris, md (asbury, nj)
>128. polly harris (charlotte vt)
>129. tony medeiros (mansfield, ma)
>130. ivan wolfson, md (riverside, ri)
>131. diane minasian, md (riverside, ri)
>132. katherine halsey (ojai, ca)
>133. brooke halsey (cambridge, ma)
>134. liza williams (hanover, nh)
>135. ellen weaver (waterville, me)
>136. lauren smith (cohasset, ma)
>137. heather devito (arlington, ma)
>138. caroline voyles (north oaks, mn)
>139. sree atluru (shoreview, mn)
>14
>0. rose
>maier (milwaukee, wi)
>141. john keane (milwuakee, wi)
>142. zoe cohen (milwaukee, wi)
>

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=========================================================================
date:         thu, 4 nov 2004 15:43:43 -0500
reply-to:     rainnriver@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "<sarah t. rosenblum>" <rainnriver@aol.com>
subject:      so it already happend but still
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

actually i'm late on this, but read the truth about this hager guy here

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/hager.htm

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=========================================================================
date:         thu, 4 nov 2004 19:23:51 -0800
reply-to:     adam hechler <tempsaint2000@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         adam hechler <tempsaint2000@yahoo.com>
subject:      11/5 stamford extras fs
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

hi all,

i just subscribed mostly because my finance has a pair
of extras for tomorrow night's show in stamford.
they're mezzanine, row g, seats 6 & 8. looking to get
cost back ($94.00) but any offers will be considered.
please email me at tempsaint2000_at_yahoo.com.

and just to introduce myself a little... my name is
adam. i've been an ig fan since 1989 (saw them in a
free show on the new haven green and got to say hi to
amy and emily and even get amy's autograph). i've not
been to too many ig shows since, mostly because i
don't hear about too many ct shows. we do own all
studio albums and a few boots (always looking for
more, though). i'm a computer geek who gets to do it
for a living (helpdesk support). life is good.

nice to meet you all.

thanks,
adam

__________________________________
do you yahoo!?
check out the new yahoo! front page.
www.yahoo.com

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 5 nov 2004 15:10:03 +1100
reply-to:     sherlyn koo <sherlyn@pixelopolis.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         sherlyn koo <sherlyn@pixelopolis.com>
subject:      ann arbor folk festival
x-to:         ig-news@smoe.org
content-type: text/plain
mime-version: 1.0

hey folks,

there's an article in the ann arbor news about the ann arbor folk
festival in january; ig are playing on jan 28th.  i'm not going to
forward the article but you can read it online here:
http://www.mlive.com/entertainment/aanews/index.ssf?/base/features-0/109906283319450.xml

looks like an interesting lineup (i particularly like lynn miles's music, in
addition to ig of course) -
sherlyn
--
sherlyn koo - sherlyn@pixelopolis.com - sydney, australia

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=========================================================================
date:         thu, 4 nov 2004 20:18:28 -0800
reply-to:     graham ames <heepybear@jefu.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         graham ames <heepybear@jefu.net>
subject:      re: 11/5 stamford extras fs
x-to:         adam hechler <tempsaint2000@yahoo.com>
in-reply-to:  <20041105032351.18841.qmail@web52001.mail.yahoo.com>
mime-version: 1.0 (apple message framework v619)
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

welcome, adam.  it's always great to have new fans join the list.  i
hope you'll stick around, because there's often interesting dialogue
that takes place here, some of it even involves subjects related to ig!

i've found a couple of local ig fans who hadn't really dipped too
deeply into their catalog, but through my enthusiasm they've started
listening on a new level, and their new amazement has had me looking
once again into songs i've long taken for granted.  it's amazing to see
how different songs effect different people, and how that can echo in
my own experience.

have you had any songs speak to you in any deep way?  if so, could you
relate one of those experiences?  i'd love to hear about it!

-graham

on nov 4, 2004, at 7:23 pm, adam hechler wrote:

> and just to introduce myself a little... my name is
> adam. i've been an ig fan since 1989 (saw them in a
> free show on the new haven green and got to say hi to
> amy and emily and even get amy's autograph). i've not
> been to too many ig shows since, mostly because i
> don't hear about too many ct shows. we do own all
> studio albums and a few boots (always looking for
> more, though). i'm a computer geek who gets to do it
> for a living (helpdesk support). life is good.

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 5 nov 2004 09:52:19 -0000
reply-to:     hannah bird <upthefoyleinabubble@ntlworld.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         hannah bird <upthefoyleinabubble@ntlworld.com>
subject:      fw: write an open letter to the governors of the 11 states
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=response
content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

> wouldn't you just love to say a thing or two to the governors of all the
> states that just voted to ban gay marriage?  here are some talking points
> you may want to address:
>
> - federal law has 1049 rights and responsibilities of marriage, none of
> which may be gained through domestic partnerships or civil unions. a 1997
> report from the federal government accounting office identifying those
> sections of law is available online at
> http://www.gao.gov/archive/1997/og97016.pdf.
>
> -  "the word "marriage" identifies a civic institution, and as with all
> civic institutions, the government must provide equal protection under the
> law. this, to me, is non-negotiable. legislating laws favoring or
> imparting religious doctrine violate the separation of church and state,
> so saying homosexuals can't get married because it "goes against god's
> law" is simply unconstitutional."  -quoted from message board (shared here
> for inspiration)
>
> a moral society seeks inclusion, equality, and justice.  we can not sit
> idly by while millions of our fellow citizens are denied the basic civil
> right of marriage.  in my personal opinion, it is immoral to discriminate
> against gays and lesbians simply because they are gay and lesbian.  i am
> going to take the time to send these governors a letter, expressing my
> moral viewpoint.  please join me, if you are so inclined.
>
> i suggest writing an open letter to the governors and the general public,
> sending it to each governor as well as to your local opinion pages/letters
> to the editor.  you can use this link to contact 5 local media outlets at
> once: http://capwiz.com/au/dbq/media/
>
>
> thank you for your time.  you may forward this email if you wish.
>
> -janice rael
> email jrael@comcast.net
>
> write to governors on gay marriage ban
>
> arkansas
> mike huckabee
> http://www.arkansas.gov/governor/staff/index.html
> email form, no address
>
> georgia
> sonny purdue
> http://www.gov.state.ga.us/contact_dom.shtml
> email form, no address
>
> kentucky
> ernie fletcher
> http://governor.ky.gov/contact.htm
> email form, no address
> fax: (502) 564-2517
>
> michigan
> jennifer granholm
> http://www.michigan.gov/gov/0,1607,...1995---,00.html
> email form, no address
> fax: (517) 335-6863
>
> mississippi
> haley barbour
> http://www.governorbarbour.com/
> could not find email contact
> fax: 601.359.3741
>
> montana
> judy martz, but brian schweitzer just won the election (martz didn't run)
> http://www.discoveringmontana.com/g...aff/contact.asp
> email form, no address
>
> north dakota
> john hoeven, just won reelection
> http://governor.state.nd.us/contact.html
> email governor@state.nd.us
> fax: (701) 328-2205
>
> ohio
> bob taft
> http://governor.ohio.gov/contactinfopage.asp
> email form, no address
>
> oklahoma
> brad henry
> http://www.governor.state.ok.us/contact.php
> fax: (405) 521-3353
> email form (under tulsa office), no address
>
> oregon
> ted kulongoski
> http://www.governor.state.or.us/gov/contact_us.shtml
> email form, no address
> fax: 503.378.6827
>

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 5 nov 2004 21:37:44 +1100
reply-to:     sherlyn koo <sherlyn@pixelopolis.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         sherlyn koo <sherlyn@pixelopolis.com>
subject:      emily on the new lisa loeb album
x-to:         ig-news <ig-news@smoe.org>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

hey folks,

i don't think i've seen this mentioned anywhere, but i just noticed
that emily sings on one track ("would you wander") on the new lisa
loeb album "the way it really is".

and that's it.

cheers,
sherlyn
--
sherlyn koo | sherlyn@pixelopolis.com | sydney, australia

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 5 nov 2004 12:36:03 +0000
reply-to:     tom xxxxx <getula@hotmail.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tom xxxxx <getula@hotmail.com>
subject:      re: 11/5 stamford extras fs
x-to:         tempsaint2000@yahoo.com
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; format=flowed

nice to meet you, adam. welcome to the list.

tom m.
"can you mr. bush light the sage"
--- tori amos, "indian summer"


>from: adam hechler <tempsaint2000@yahoo.com>
>reply-to: adam hechler <tempsaint2000@yahoo.com>
>to: indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org
>subject: 11/5 stamford extras fs
>date: thu, 4 nov 2004 19:23:51 -0800
>
>hi all,
>
>i just subscribed mostly because my finance has a pair
>of extras for tomorrow night's show in stamford.
>they're mezzanine, row g, seats 6 & 8. looking to get
>cost back ($94.00) but any offers will be considered.
>please email me at tempsaint2000_at_yahoo.com.
>
>and just to introduce myself a little... my name is
>adam. i've been an ig fan since 1989 (saw them in a
>free show on the new haven green and got to say hi to
>amy and emily and even get amy's autograph). i've not
>been to too many ig shows since, mostly because i
>don't hear about too many ct shows. we do own all
>studio albums and a few boots (always looking for
>more, though). i'm a computer geek who gets to do it
>for a living (helpdesk support). life is good.
>
>nice to meet you all.
>
>thanks,
>adam
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>do you yahoo!?
>check out the new yahoo! front page.
>www.yahoo.com
>
>--
>do not quote other peoples' entire messages when replying to the list.
>indigo girls faq and indigo girls mailing list faq:
>http://www.pixelopolis.com/ig

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 5 nov 2004 05:37:38 -0800
reply-to:     toye gillman <toye77@sbcglobal.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         toye gillman <toye77@sbcglobal.net>
subject:      re: broken hearts...broken dreams
x-to:         jezzie98@comcast.net
in-reply-to:  <110420041721.13842.418a650e000640a7000036122200750330c8c70a0796960a06@comcast.net>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

when speaking of edwards as a "better candidate,"  i wasn't talking just about the gay issues.  kerry was against it also.  i'm talking about all-around likeability and clearness of his positions.  kerry just seemed shady from the beginning and i feel that edwards would have been better at getting everyone together working toward a common goal.  his inexperience (imo) would not have allowed him to be chosen, and i'm not saying he is the best choice.  but comparing him to kerry, i think he would have been better.  it doesn't matter a whole lot whether the candidate is for or against gay marriage, but i feel it is important to get the more liberal of the two parties into office--regardless.  i also feel they were a bit vague on their support or lack of support of gay marriage/civil unions.  this is probably because it was such a hot issue this election, and they were trying not to alienate democrats who are also against gay marriage/civil unions.

jezzie98@comcast.net wrote:edwards would have made a better candidate? not based on you reasonings at the beginning of your post. if anyone remembers the primaries, edwards was the only candidate who openly admitted he did not support gay marriage or civil unions, and that is why he didn't get my vote. so when kerry announced that was going to be his running mate, it was decision time.

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date:         fri, 5 nov 2004 09:21:32 -0500
reply-to:     rgcs1123@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         rgcs1123@aol.com
subject:      no boston for ig?
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

have i missed an announcement, or are they not performing in the boston area, even though they're really close?

seems a little unusual...

ticketmaster has been known not to inform me of their upcoming appearnaces even though i signed up to receive advance warning

just checking,
rena

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date:         fri, 5 nov 2004 09:58:16 -0500
reply-to:     hare@optonline.net
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jason hare <hare@optonline.net>
subject:      a very ig wedding
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

hi everybody,

just wanted to share a quick little story.

i just got married this past weekend - my wife, jessica, is also a big ig fan, and like many of you, i'm sure, we've always considered "power of two" to be "our song." i'm actually surprised that more people haven't used it - it really is a perfect song for couples.  in any case, we've always loved the song, and emily always smiles when she sees us slow-dancing to it at concerts.  so it holds a very special place in our hearts.

we wanted to make it a part of our wedding - so not only was it our first dance (we made the band play the cd), but we also printed the lyrics in our ceremony program, and actually performed the song, singing together (a friend and myself also played guitar) during the ceremony.

the surprising part of the weekend, though, was this: a friend of ours couldn't make it to our wedding, but she sent a gift in her absence.  before we opened the gift, we were instructed to open an envelope first.

in the envelope was a letter that she wrote to a&e back in july.  she mentioned that we were really big fans and how we were using "power of two" in our ceremony, etc...so then we opened the gift...

it was a framed 8x10 of emily and amy with the message "to jessica and jason - happy marriage" and signed by both the girls!

it was really a wonderful present - more than we ever could have expected - thanks to the generosity of our friend and, of course, amy and emily.  they really made our wedding quite special.

just wanted to share some cheery news in this week of bummer news.  :)

jason

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 5 nov 2004 08:54:37 -0800
reply-to:     icyspook <icyspook@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
comments:     domainkeys? see http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
from:         icyspook <icyspook@yahoo.com>
subject:      re: no boston for ig?
in-reply-to:  <47ef9a6c.571931e6.00803e2e@aol.com>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

not that i've found.  this seems to be a very short
little northeast tour, a tour-ette if you will.

icy

--- rgcs1123@aol.com wrote:

> have i missed an announcement, or are they not
> performing in the boston area, even though they're
> really close?
>
> seems a little unusual...
>
> ticketmaster has been known not to inform me of
> their upcoming appearnaces even though i signed up
> to receive advance warning
>
> just checking,
> rena
>
> --
> for information about the news-only version of this
> list send
> this command to majordomo@smoe.org: info ig-news
> indigo girls faq and indigo girls mailing list faq:
> http://www.pixelopolis.com/ig
>


=====
my bootlist:  http://db.etree.org/icyspook

i want to buy a fish license..

__________________________________
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check out the new yahoo! front page.
www.yahoo.com

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=========================================================================
date:         fri, 5 nov 2004 10:33:16 -0800
reply-to:     tara <tara8595@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         tara <tara8595@yahoo.com>
subject:      voting & iqs... i was right!
in-reply-to:  <20041103215439.24821.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

http://attenuation.net/files/iq.htm

told y'all!

__________________________________
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date:         fri, 5 nov 2004 13:34:16 -0600
reply-to:     tgreen@uab.edu
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         todd green <tgreen@uab.edu>
subject:      re: voting & iqs... i was right!
in-reply-to:  <20041105183316.4065.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com>
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mime-version: 1.0
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i guess that hardly validates your point. many other polls would probably=
have=20
the same profile........economic status, religious affiliation, etc etc e=
tc.=20
so obviously there is more than one factor that went into deciding whethe=
r=20
someone voted for this guy or that guy. i still say that using iq as a=20
measure of aptitude for voting is silly. i still think people will vote b=
ased=20
on their own needs. its the one time every four years when everyone is=20
allowed to be selfish. its the one time in four years that me and george =
bush=20
were on even ground. i like to think i cancelled out his vote. its just=20
unfortunate(or fortunate depending on you preference) that more people di=
dn't=20
do that in all of the states that bush won. but you have to admit that 4=20
million votes is pretty decisive. so at least the people with low iqs wer=
e=20
smart enough to go and exercise their right to vote.

as a side note, i live in alabama we are ranked 41 on the list, i have ph=
d, i=20
voted for kerry, and my iq was not used in the study.........

-todd

on friday 05 november 2004 12:33 pm, tara wrote:
> http://attenuation.net/files/iq.htm
>
> told y'all!
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> do you yahoo!?
> check out the new yahoo! front page.
> www.yahoo.com

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date:         fri, 5 nov 2004 15:24:17 -0500
reply-to:     neil hunt <neil@andineil.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         neil hunt <neil@andineil.com>
subject:      re: voting & iqs... i was[n't] right!
in-reply-to:  <200411051334.16402.tgreen@uab.edu>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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on friday 05 november 2004 12:33 pm, tara wrote:
> http://attenuation.net/files/iq.htm
>
> told y'all!

i see your unattributed, unreferenced,
not-even-sure-themselves-if-they're-right webpage, and raise you a different
list *with* sources/methodology and coming to a somewhat different
conclusion:
http://www.sq.4mg.com/stateiq-income.htm

so no, you weren't right - your figures are a hoax:
http://www.sq.4mg.com/iqstates.htm

not that the composition of a state as a whole can tell you who the
~individuals~ within the state voted for. as i said, support for kerry/bush
was pretty much split 50/50 for every level of education:
http://www.cnn.com/election/2004/pages/results/states/us/p/00/epolls.0.html
(as you can see from these figures, the surest way to guarantee a democratic
president is to only let black people vote.)

the real irony here is... well, i'll let y'all figure it out :)

neil
@}--,--'--

coming soon to our house concert series here in media, pa
november 7th - the fabulous amy rigby
www.sixthst.com

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date:         fri, 5 nov 2004 14:46:41 -0600
reply-to:     tgreen@uab.edu
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         todd green <tgreen@uab.edu>
subject:      re: voting & iqs... i was[n't] right!
in-reply-to:  <nhbbkhmmkmnakplemkmhaeehcpaa.neil@andineil.com>
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thanks neil, that's a dirty trick, you did this because you knew that sin=
ce i=20
am from alabama my iq would be too low to figure it out............


>
> the real irony here is... well, i'll let y'all figure it out :)
>
> neil
> @}--,--'--
>

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date:         sat, 6 nov 2004 04:38:26 -0800
reply-to:     tara <tara8595@yahoo.com>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
comments:     domainkeys? see http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
from:         tara <tara8595@yahoo.com>
subject:      keeping it light
in-reply-to:  <200411051446.41048.tgreen@uab.edu>
mime-version: 1.0
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you know, re: this iqs discussion, i am sorry
that it has caused a few of you to insult me
personally, while i, in my too-many-to-count
years on this list, have never insulted or made a
derogatory comment about any specific listee.

i thought this was a place where we could have an
enlightened discussion of differences of opinion
without hurting each other, and yet, i've been
picked on personally for just trying to
contribute to the discussion.  i forwarded that
iq chart because i thought it was funny in light
of all we talked about.  surveys and polls are
always sketchy and of course, you can't believe
everything you read.

i write most of what i send with tongue in cheek,
and i'm sorry that the whole "everybody who voted
for bush is stupid" discussion has caused some to
feel they have to strike back with personal
insults.  must've hit a chord, otherwise people
wouldn't be telling me how many degrees are
hanging on their walls.  of course not everybody
who voted for bush is stupid.  i didn't think
that i needed to write this, due to the fact that
it is obvious.  but there - i have admitted it,
okay? feel better? just by the same token, i'm
sure there are many stupid people who voted for
kerry.  this is a land of greys, not blacks and
whites as many would have it, and certainly, i
know this.

every american citizen has a right to vote and i
wouldn't deny that right to the least intelligent
person in america.  truly i wouldn't.  i think
it's unfortunate that things have turned out the
way that they did, especially because that whole
image of unlightened americans is just made more
solid in the eyes of many of our foreign
neighbors.  anyone see the post-election cover of
the daily mirror in england?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/frontpages/ it's
embarrassing.  and saying we shouldn't care about
what others think about us is just adding fuel to
the fire.

anyhow - blah blah blah - what is supposed to be
parallel to water cooler jive talk has been taken
far too seriously.  so - i'm picking my hat up
out of this ring and will write no more.  it's
getting too heavy and ugly.  i just wanted to
keep it light.  y'all win.

***if you feel you must insult me more, please
send it to me personally instead of to the list
at large***

i'm tara lane and i approve this message.

t.

__________________________________
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date:         sat, 6 nov 2004 11:43:25 -0500
reply-to:     rainnriver@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         "<sarah t. rosenblum>" <rainnriver@aol.com>
subject:      health textbooks in texas to change wording about marriage
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information gave me this number 512-427-6100 for the higher education info line. perhaps it is a number we could call to complain about the choice?

health textbooks in texas to change wording about marriage

published: november 6, 2004


austin, tex., nov. 5 (ap) - the texas board of education approved new health textbooks for the state's high schools and middle schools on friday after the publishers agreed to change wordings in the texts to depict marriage strictly as the union of a man and a woman.

the decision involves two of the biggest textbook publishers and is another example of texas' exerting its market influence as the nation's second-largest buyer of textbooks. officials say the decision could affect hundreds of thousands of books in texas alone.

on thursday, a board member said that proposed new books ran counter to a texas law banning the recognition of gay civil unions because the texts used terms like "married partners" instead of "husband and wife."

after hearing the debate on thursday, one publisher, holt, rinehart and winston, agreed to include a definition of marriage as a "lifelong union between a husband and a wife." the definition, which was added to middle school textbooks, was already in holt's high school editions, rick blake, a company spokesman, said.

the other publisher, glencoe/mcgraw-hill, changed phrases like "when two people marry" and "partners" to "when a man and a woman marry" and "husbands and wives."

"the board expressed an interest in having us" make the change, mr. blake said. "we thought it was a reasonable thing to do."

but mr. blake said the publisher did not plan to add its definition of marriage in books to be sold outside texas. a spokeswoman for glencoe/mcgraw-hill did not immediately respond to questions.

a list of the books that were approved by the board, as well as those that were not, is sent to school districts for guidance when they choose books.

one board member, mary helen berlanga, a democrat, asked the panel to approve the books without the changes, but her proposal was rejected on a 10-to-4 vote.

"we're not supposed to make changes at somebody's whim," ms. berlanga said. "it's a political agenda, and we're not here to follow a political agenda."

another board member, terri leo, a republican, said she was pleased with the publishers' changes. she had led the effort to get the publishers to change the texts, objecting to what she called "asexual stealth phrases" like "individuals who marry."

"marriage has been defined in texas, so it should also be defined in our health textbooks that we use as marriage between a man and a woman," ms. leo said.

texas legislators enacted a law last year that prohibits the state from recognizing same-sex civil unions. the state already had a ban on gay marriage.

neither publisher made all the changes that ms. leo initially sought. for instance, one passage that was proposed to be added to the teacher's editions read: "opinions vary on why homosexuals, lesbians and bisexuals as a group are more prone to self-destructive behaviors like depression, illegal drug use and suicide."

randall ellis, the executive director of the lesbian/gay rights lobby of texas, said the board had overstepped its bounds in suggesting and adopting the new wording.

"their job is to review for factual information and instead what we see is the insertion of someone's ideology and agenda into the textbook of middle schoolers," mr. ellis said.

the board's approval caps months of debate over health textbooks. much of it had centered on how much sex education should be included.

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=========================================================================
date:         sat, 6 nov 2004 16:57:19 +0000
reply-to:     jezzie98@comcast.net
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jezzie98@comcast.net
subject:      re: voting & iqs... i was right!
x-to:         tara <tara8595@yahoo.com>

i love you for that! thank you, my fuel tank was so low, and last night's ig show in ct and now this gives me hope, we will fight our way back!
thanks for (whether intended or not) kicking me in the ass again!

hillary in 2008!

janet
nh


> http://attenuation.net/files/iq.htm
>
> told y'all!
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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> check out the new yahoo! front page.
> www.yahoo.com
>
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> this command to majordomo@smoe.org: info ig-news
> indigo girls faq and indigo girls mailing list faq:
> http://www.pixelopolis.com/ig

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date:         sat, 6 nov 2004 17:09:38 +0000
reply-to:     jezzie98@comcast.net
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jezzie98@comcast.net
subject:      re: keeping it light
x-to:         tara <tara8595@yahoo.com>

i find it so ironic that everyone is quick to jump on tara, over the accuracy of these on line polls, and graphs,maybe if everyone was as concerned with dispelling the validity of how many votes were actually cast, and counted maybe we wouldn't have these problems. tara, i got the joke, and i still find it amusing!

                                     janet in nh
        "where the men are men, and the sheep are nervous"


> you know, re: this iqs discussion, i am sorry
> that it has caused a few of you to insult me
> personally, while i, in my too-many-to-count
> years on this list, have never insulted or made a
> derogatory comment about any specific listee.
>
> i thought this was a place where we could have an
> enlightened discussion of differences of opinion
> without hurting each other, and yet, i've been
> picked on personally for just trying to
> contribute to the discussion.  i forwarded that
> iq chart because i thought it was funny in light
> of all we talked about.  surveys and polls are
> always sketchy and of course, you can't believe
> everything you read.
>
> i write most of what i send with tongue in cheek,
> and i'm sorry that the whole "everybody who voted
> for bush is stupid" discussion has caused some to
> feel they have to strike back with personal
> insults.  must've hit a chord, otherwise people
> wouldn't be telling me how many degrees are
> hanging on their walls.  of course not everybody
> who voted for bush is stupid.  i didn't think
> that i needed to write this, due to the fact that
> it is obvious.  but there - i have admitted it,
> okay? feel better? just by the same token, i'm
> sure there are many stupid people who voted for
> kerry.  this is a land of greys, not blacks and
> whites as many would have it, and certainly, i
> know this.
>
> every american citizen has a right to vote and i
> wouldn't deny that right to the least intelligent
> person in america.  truly i wouldn't.  i think
> it's unfortunate that things have turned out the
> way that they did, especially because that whole
> image of unlightened americans is just made more
> solid in the eyes of many of our foreign
> neighbors.  anyone see the post-election cover of
> the daily mirror in england?
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/frontpages/ it's
> embarrassing.  and saying we shouldn't care about
> what others think about us is just adding fuel to
> the fire.
>
> anyhow - blah blah blah - what is supposed to be
> parallel to water cooler jive talk has been taken
> far too seriously.  so - i'm picking my hat up
> out of this ring and will write no more.  it's
> getting too heavy and ugly.  i just wanted to
> keep it light.  y'all win.
>
> ***if you feel you must insult me more, please
> send it to me personally instead of to the list
> at large***
>
> i'm tara lane and i approve this message.
>
> t.
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> do you yahoo!?
> check out the new yahoo! front page.
> www.yahoo.com
>
> --
> please do not send excessive amounts of quoted text and/or nigc,
> long signatures, attachments or flames to the list.
> indigo girls faq and indigo girls mailing list faq:
> http://www.pixelopolis.com/ig

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=========================================================================
date:         sat, 6 nov 2004 17:38:41 +0000
reply-to:     jezzie98@comcast.net
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jezzie98@comcast.net
subject:      stamford, ct ...

while i am a posting machine right now, i wanted to point out that last night in
stamford, ct was a really good show! i know it has been said before, but girlieman is awesome! by far the best opener i have ever seen with ig ( i really loved the kim richey shows) they are so talented and amusing, they were great to watch. it is obvious that ig really love them, they came out on stage and did get out the map, perfect world, closer to fine, and an absolutely beautiful version of finlandia. the crowd was pretty into it, we had great seats off to the side, and on the aisle, so yes if you were wondering i was able to "bust a move" without really bothering anyone.....hooray! i was able to stand during go, it is not the same to "raise your hands high" from the sitting position ( at least not for me). when the girls first came out i think they were not sure how to read the crowd, giving the disappointment from the past week ( not for everyone, i understand,but a large majority of us felt very depressed) everyone was kind of skirting the election issue, girlieman m
ade some references, and when emily came out, and asked the crowd favorite
"how you doing" she seemed surprised at the response. she had what she referred to as "election hangover" and they talked a bit about disappointed they had with their fellow man, and how once again, all attention is focused on the south. amy says it is so hard not to be angry at them, and it is "her family so it makes it really hard" emily said that they were happy to be on th east coast, she called thier "blue state tour"
anyhow, i am not great at song lists, or fashion reports. amy did two new songs driver education, and let me go easy, i noticed some people signing along with these songs, but i have never heard them, both very good.
high points for me emily did our deliverance, collecting you, and philosophy of loss, watershed. amy did an awesome version of land of canaan. that is all i can remember, it was an 8 hour round trip from new hampshire to stamford, but it was worth it. we are off to providence tonight, general admission <yikes> take care everyone, if your feeling down, about the past weeks, events seriously get out to an ig show, it helped so much. i was on the couch for 3 days watching the star wars trilogy, because i decided i would rather live in a world run by darth vader, than gwb, but we all have to move forward, and be louder, and stronger, as a community we need each other!

peace & love,

janet

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date:         sat, 6 nov 2004 17:36:44 -0500
reply-to:     jen cattin <jencattin@comcast.net>
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jen cattin <jencattin@comcast.net>
subject:      nigc:  venue check - new england
x-to:         baigls <baigls@world.std.com>
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
content-transfer-encoding:  quoted-printable

hi folks,

i bought tix to see john eddie at the iron horse in northampton ma on =
the 12th.  the tix are will call and i have to pick them up with the =
credit card i ordered with.  my dilemma...noho is 2 1/2 hours from me =
and i just found out that john is playing the night before, on the 11th, =
at the stone church in newmarket nh, about 1 hour from me.  has anyone =
been to both venues and have any advice as to which is better?  we're =
trying to figure out if it's worth losing the $28 we paid for noho and =
the cost of gas and time to get there, and just go to the stone church.  =
any suggestions?

jen

"the thing that's most important for me is to remember what's the most =
important thing."  president bush - st. louis,  february 20, 2001

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=========================================================================
date:         sun, 7 nov 2004 13:55:04 +0000
reply-to:     jezzie98@comcast.net
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jezzie98@comcast.net
subject:      rhode island quickie....

just a quick note to talk about last night's show at lupo's heartbreak hotel.
awesome! i really enjoy shows in ri, the crowds are always so into them, signing and dancing along. of course being a ga show you had to stand, and it was freezing in there so dancing helped keep you warm! if was funny because as we drove home from the show my gf and i were talking about how people always tell us we crazy, and ask how we can go to see the same band over and over again don't we get bored with it/ i always try to liken in to the grateful dead ( without the drugs......well, not as many drugs) and as the first 5 songs were played last night, they had already done 3  different from the first the night before, it was great! a few notes they played a lot of songs from cos, go, get out the map (with girlyman), gone again ( hooray) and the song that emily wrote for her sister , the name escapes me right now. the girls were energetic, and you could clearly see the reaction from the crowd, really made them happy! and it must also be mentioned, that and i realize it has
been said before, i can die now because i got to  heard my all time favorite song ever.......that is right they broke out < drum roll please> mona lisa's and mad hatters!!!! it was perfect, and we were so floored to get to hear it live! i have now seen elton john, ann & nancy wilson and the indigo girls perform that live, it is safe to say i can go peacefully! again, i am not very good at set lists, or fashion, girls were clothes....songs, were great! i hope everyone has fun in ny, and we will see you all again in nh! hi to the people in line, thanks for making standing outside in the cold fun!
take care,

janet

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date:         sun, 7 nov 2004 13:59:27 +0000
reply-to:     jezzie98@comcast.net
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         jezzie98@comcast.net
subject:      boot request...

hi again,
i am on vacation, and i guess sitting in front of my computer has reached "addiction" status, you will be happy to know i return to work tomorrow, so i will stop harassing the list! anyhoo, i was wondering if anyone has a boot for the calvin theater (noho) from last couple of summers? if you do would you please let us know!

thank you,

janet & kristin

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date:         sun, 7 nov 2004 16:43:44 est
reply-to:     indigotraveller@aol.com
sender:       indigo girls mailing list <indigo-girls@lists.netspace.org>
from:         indigotraveller@aol.com
subject:      best comeback
x-to:         jezzie98@comcast.net
mime-version: 1.0
content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
content-transfer-encoding:  7bit

>>if was funny because as we drove home from the show my gf and i were
talking about how people always tell us we crazy, and ask how we can go to see the
same band over and over again don't we get bored with it/ i always try to liken
in to the grateful dead ( without the drugs......well, not as many drugs)

a travelling who friend of mine had the best comeback of all to this
question.  "have you ever had sex with the same person more than once?"

lauren

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